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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 3/3/2024 7:44:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: atblis]
I was working up some subsonic loads for a 300 blackout. It's a 10.5" Ballistic Advantage 300 blackout barrel with a Rex Mg7 308 directly threaded on it. Shooting Nosler 168s with N120. Not a typical subsonic bullet, but curious to see if they'd cycle as they're pretty cheap. Twist is a 1 in 7".

Initially everything seemed okay shooting at 50 yards. Moved the target to 100 yards, and realized accuracy was horrific. After looking at the target closely, it's clear the bullets aren't stable. Not full on tumbling, but clearly there's an issue.

Started down the path of troubleshooting.

1) First took a good look at the suppressor. Everything was tight. Borescope showed nothing resembling a bullet impacting anywhere inside the suppressor. Alignment rod check showed very good alignment. Hmm. Ok.

2) Next step, bore-scoped the barrel.  Crown looks great. Some chatter marks on the lands, but ehh, not usually a problem. Cleaned the barrel really well. The more I look, the more this barrel looks not so great. Some "features" around the throat in particular.  Looks like there's a carbon ring, but also some things I can't quite identify. Definitely some pitting in places.

What do you guys think?

Edit:

After more cleaning
Borescope of Ballistic Advantage 300 Blackout barrel with accuracy issues


First video. Some cleaning, but some fouling
Borescope of Ballistic Advantage 300 Blackout barrel with keyholing issue


Link Posted: 3/3/2024 9:55:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GrizzlyAdams] [#1]
I’d send that video to BA and see what they say
Link Posted: 3/3/2024 11:03:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Going to give them a call tomorrow
Link Posted: 3/3/2024 11:27:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#3]
Jeebus, your barrel's got AIDS.  Carbon ring and strange pitting out the wazoo.
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 12:05:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BhamAR] [#4]
Define horrific accuracy at 100 yards.

Subsonic gonna drop a ton!

I do agree there are some interesting marks on it, but gonna be a hard sell on 100 yard problems on handloads, but 50 yards seems good.

Too easy to blame the loading.
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 12:26:12 AM EDT
[#5]
12” groups, maybe larger. Didn’t bother to
Measure.
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 12:38:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Looks like poop
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 5:21:23 AM EDT
[#7]
What it the barrel lining? How many rounds has it seen? Has it shot well with other loads? What is your load data and how are you working it up?

I don't think the throat issues are causing the accuracy issues. That said, that's pretty ugly.
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 6:44:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523] [#8]
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 10:30:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Going to shoot without suppressor out of curiosity.

Currently have that weird spot on the throat soaking in some patch out. It looks copper colored which leads me to think it’s jacket material. Curious to see what’s underneath if that’s the case.

Barrel has 100 rounds or so through it. Melonite.

Not going to throw too many more rounds at it. Too many visual indicators it’s a shit barrel. Been there done that. Of course will bug Ballistic Advantage.
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 7:14:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/4/2024 9:39:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dano523:
If that is at end of leade, then reamer was not run with a floating reaming holder/barrel bore was not running true in chuck, and why it left the step since chamber reamer did not run true to bore line.
So barrel needs to go back/would not run a suppressor on it, since the bullet smearing at rifling engagement is going to be a mess/ may not be stabilized in the first place with correct full engagement to the rifling in the first place.
View Quote


I think what you're seeing is the end of the neck area right before the freebore portion of the barrel. In the video below, you can see where I slide a case into the chamber at about the 6 minute mark.

Longer video. Bought a box of 125 gr Winchester open tips to try.

Borescope of Ballistic Advantage 300 Blackout barrel with accuracy issues
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 5:09:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523] [#12]
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 5:50:34 AM EDT
[#13]
For a low round count melonite barrel, it's pretty shiny at the throat. I think I'm with Dano here in so much as it needs a deeper cleaning to reveal what it really looks like. It appears that the chamber might be a little long to the end of the neck, accounting for the carbon ring there. It's either that or your casings are trimmed short. You really need to start with a spotless barrel to sort this out.

What you might want to do is look at this from another direction as well. You're reloading so you must have measuring tools. Compare factory ammo to fired brass using a headspace comparator. See what your rifle has done to the brass. I suggest this because my suspicion is that your chamber may have been the result of a worn reamer. The shoulder portion tends to wear first as they cut more material and when resharpened, reamers don't always come out perfect. This might show where that space at the neck came from. If the chamber is too far from where you want it, it might be worth asking BA to replace it.

None of this explains the accuracy issues you are experiencing. The barrel doesn't look that bad (bad enough to be throwing 12" groups at 100). That said, you're looking to sort out your barrel. If it were me, I'd also back off my reloads and run some factory for a baseline accuracy and velocity data and work up a load ladder based on that. Ruling out the ammunition is a good move.
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 11:27:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Homesteader375:
For a low round count melonite barrel, it's pretty shiny at the throat. I think I'm with Dano here in so much as it needs a deeper cleaning to reveal what it really looks like. It appears that the chamber might be a little long to the end of the neck, accounting for the carbon ring there. It's either that or your casings are trimmed short. You really need to start with a spotless barrel to sort this out.

What you might want to do is look at this from another direction as well. You're reloading so you must have measuring tools. Compare factory ammo to fired brass using a headspace comparator. See what your rifle has done to the brass. I suggest this because my suspicion is that your chamber may have been the result of a worn reamer. The shoulder portion tends to wear first as they cut more material and when resharpened, reamers don't always come out perfect. This might show where that space at the neck came from. If the chamber is too far from where you want it, it might be worth asking BA to replace it.

None of this explains the accuracy issues you are experiencing. The barrel doesn't look that bad (bad enough to be throwing 12" groups at 100). That said, you're looking to sort out your barrel. If it were me, I'd also back off my reloads and run some factory for a baseline accuracy and velocity data and work up a load ladder based on that. Ruling out the ammunition is a good move.
View Quote

There were two videos posted. The newer longer one is after some more time with JB bore paste. Asides from the carbon at the step from the neck area of the chamber to the freebore, I don't think there's much else left to clean.
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 11:55:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Handloads will always be the first thing blamed.  Almost all gun companies or related industries will void all warranty claims if hand-loads are used.   First use factory ammo, then show those results to the company.  I wouldn't even mention hand-loads.
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 2:26:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By atblis:
12” groups, maybe larger. Didn’t bother to
Measure.
View Quote


I would bet money you are getting baffle strikes. 12" groups and keyholing suggests as much.

Post your findings after removing the can.
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 8:27:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 3/5/2024 8:53:39 PM EDT
[#18]
They clearly do not lap after reaming. Not that it's the worst thing, but it's not great.

Might be a candidate for fire lapping if you want to experiment.
Link Posted: 3/6/2024 12:01:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: atblis] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:


I would bet money you are getting baffle strikes. 12" groups and keyholing suggests as much.

Post your findings after removing the can.
View Quote

I am really starting to wonder. Is it possible for a suppressor to foul to the point where you see similar symptoms? I put it in the ultrasonic and got a ton of carbon. I am now using wipeout and getting a blue residue out of it indicating copper. The baffles are a bit chewed up, but I put maybe 500 rounds on an 11.5” 223 before swapping it on to the 300 blk. New to suppressors so I am not sure what normal baffle erosion look like vs what baffle strikes can look like. Yeah, I’ve seen pictures of really obvious baffle strikes, but I don’t have that.

Anyways next test is barrel scrubbed clean, box of factory 125s, upper complete disassembled and reassembled, bare muzzle.
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