This might be a subject of debate, but hopefully it's not as intense as beans or no beans.

I was looking at PSA lowers on their website. As I kept looking, they had other manufacturers lowers on there for higher prices. Aren't all lowers pretty much the same? I know some people have had issues with the Poverty Pony due to QC problems Anderson had in the past, but does it make sense to spend $600 for a stripped upper and lower, when you can spend $70 at PSA for a lower, another $60, for a CMMG parts kit, then use the rest of the money for a barreled upper and stock you like? It seems that a lower is a lower, is a lower. Or am I missing something?

Mostly true, at some point you are just paying extra for the name on the box.   The difference is often in attention to detail in the workmanship and in the level of Quality Assurance inspection.  If all the holes are in the correct locations and are the correct size, they are pretty much equal.   I have only had a problem one time with numerous Anderson, Bushmaster, and DPMS lowers.  

If you buy from PSA, and have a problem, they will make it right.

Some manufacturers add nice little upgrades such as threaded holes for the rear takedown detent and bolt catch.  Not necessary, but less frustration during the build.

Having had a lot of budget lowers, the only issue I've ever run into was a sharp, irritating edge on the trigger guard section. When I got sick of it rubbing my finger, I hit it with file and some alumablack. I'd call that a trivial problem.

I have built or bought factory built rifles using lowers from Anderson (AKA poverty pony), Colt, Aero, Bushmaster, Eagle Arms, Noveske, JP, Rock River,  and a couple of others I can't remember right now.  Once they are built out with quality parts kits, triggers, barrels etc, I have not found any discernible difference in performance.  There are some minor cosmetic differences but not enough to justify a receiver costing twice as much as the cheapest one.  

I have come to the conclusion that unless I want a parts matching rifle, as long as the lower receiver is mil spec they are all reliable and work just fine.  I haven't worn one out yet, but I use non rotating trigger and hammer pins.

The person operating the equipment that day and the freshness of the tooling have far more impact on quality than the name on the rollmark.

Sexy rollmarks cost more money, because well, no reason other than pride in product and in some cases ridiculous fan-boi desire.  They might have a little more time spent on massaging sharp edges and anodizing, but as far as function they are pretty much the same.  I have built on PSA, Aero, Anderson, 17 Design, and a few unknown mil-spec.  All have gone together without issue and function 100%.  Aero is as gucci as I get, and I only buy them when on sale  

For the most part yes, all lowers are basically the same.  Anderson gets grief - being one of the largest volume producers, they will have a higher count of QC hits, and also being lowest cost will always draw derision before data.  In my experience I'd build a $2000 rifle on an Anderson all day long, and trust it.  I've handled "higher end" lowers that have had more problems with QC etc, than Anderson.

IMHO there are 4 flavors to consider.

1) Basic mil-spec configuration standard lower.  In which case, get an Anderson or PSA.  Higher end names are waste of money for no better lowers.  But they do have higher resell value, so there's there.  (nobody is going to buy a $2000 AR, at $2000, if it's on an Anderson Lower).  
2) Plastic lowers.  IMHO, I don't like these, I just don't trust their wear and longevity.  They are extremely light though, but weak.
3) Magnesium lowers.  Similar to Plastic lowers in both weight and weakness, but IMHO a little stronger.  I actually like Mag lowers, but have no delusions that they are as strong as aluminum.  Mine have held up fine, they're cheap (or were), and worth having one or two for an ultra-light patrol build.  I night-hunt with a Mag lower to counter the added Thermal mass, and am happy.
4) full-feature lowers.  The GI Lower is pretty old tech - and there have been some clever improvements.  Most of them I actually don't care for, but I do like this one.  It's an ambi-bolt release, but not one that involves hanging a bunch of extra shit off the gun adding more mass and moment-arms that the system has to overcome (and sometimes doesn't).  It's a very clever concept where the bolt-lock engagement doesn't ineract with it at all, and it has its own internal spring that resets it, so the magazine spring and even the release paddle doesn't even know it exists, until you depress it and it pokes through and presses the paddle closed from inside, releasing the bolt.  It's clever and well integrated and simple, and a nice technology improvement that's worth looking at.  If you want to spend more money than an Anderson, get something for it at least, so get one of these:

My personal favorite is Sons of Liberty's lower design.  I don't really care for Geissele' and so many other's approach, because they end up hanging a bunch of shit and extra weight on the gun, and this design concept is much more elegant once you get a chance to figure out how it works.




(edit to update - as another poster mentioned, some lowers have things that make your life easier like threaded holes for the bolt catch rather than a pin, and built in trigger guards, both of which are nice.

Agreed. That and finish colors very quite a bit. Functionally they seem to work on par once assembled but different shades upper and lower looks a little odd. But come to think of it, most of mine don’t match

Thanks all! I appreciate your input. You pretty much confirmed what I have been suspecting for a while.

Having done a fair amount of milling i can say i now understand the differences better than before.  Little extras like built in trigger guard, set screw for tightening the fit, one lower brand relocated the takedown detent spring hole to the grip instead of where it is a pain during install of the buffer tube.   I also like some of the style improvements over milspec on some.  But end of the day a valid milspec lower works just fine.

And I want to say that I believe a lot of Andersons's issues were back when they were first becoming popular. It's been a while (years even) since I've heard of any real issue with an Anderson lower.

I didn't even start to consider Anderson for lowers until the complaints of QC issues had pretty much stopped.

Good point.  I wasn't messing with them any then, but I think you may well be right on that.

If they are the proper material and machined to proper specs, then Yes.

Yeah, recently helped a friend assemble his Wilson Combat lower and that was an interesting twist.  At first glance I thought they'd forgotten to do the hole haha.

He got a matched billet upper and lower and I've gotta say they looked and felt really good. I have no issues paying a little more just for the look, if that's important to you.

How do you know if they are?

Aero Precision's treaded tension grubscrew with the nylon tip is a great feature

some lowers have the aluminum grade marked on the handgrip boss

Buy from a reputable company that lists their specs.  Verifying the material requires special equipment and often destructive testing.  Not something people will want to do to their receivers.

Forged lowers are almost always 7075.  Don't know of anyone making forged 6061 lowers.  Mostly 6061 shows up in billet lowers.

Would you say that Centurion Arms is a reputable company?

Yes Centurion Arms is a reputable company.

I just bought one of the CA lowers 3 weeks ago, so out of spec not even funny.

I've never used Centurion Arms.

But, for the same price I would purchase a Mega.  Easily the best forged lowers I've ever used.
https://www.zevtechnologies.com/mega-ar15-forged-lower-receiver

I've also had good experiences with Aero and Anderson lowers on the budget side.

If they could figure out a way to pull the receivers together rather than wedge them apart...

I watched the video. How many more are you going to buy? Looked like you were up to three already.

I originally bought 4.

I bought 3 "about" 2-3 years ago, 2 I built up, discovered issues, 1 sat in the safe till 2003, all 3 had some kind of out of spec issue, andm I bought the one in the video on 3-22 of last month, well, I had high hopes things had changed.

Full cut pocket are the best......for weight savings

CA did replace one lower, the other 2 were deemed to be just "cosmetic" and thy had no replacements, only blems. Both those the front detent hole for the pivot pin was drilled off center making it look ugly.

The point being, people who keep saying "if its in spec" and buy from a reputable company, my ONLY point being, thats not always going to be the case. You can just as easily get out of spec lowers from reputable companies. Thats my point.

Below is email exchange from first issue. To their credit they did finally (after a lot of back and forth) acknowledge the issue and replace it.

Glad to hear it! Thank you!!

On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 9:13 PM wrote:
I received my replacement receiver today and it is good.

Thank you very much!!!  

On 06/03/2021 4:30 PM Corrie LeClair  wrote:


And, Lynze packed that up for me! It is down in the UPS Pickup area.  If not today(not sure if UPS has picked up yet), then tomorrow for sure.

Tracking:  


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


Virus-free. www.avast.com


On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 3:11 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:
Let me run down and check!  I'm sorry, it slipped my mind after I sent the order down for them to pull/inspect a replacement and get that logged out.  They've been busy ...but I'll make sure they get me one today so I can pack it up and  get it out the door.  
My apologies for the wait!


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 1:07 PM wrote:
Hello, just checking to see if there was any follow up on this, thanks,
On 05/28/2021 3:32 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:


It is already logged out from you and is now in our books with us as the owner.  If it's unusable it is destroyed and marked as such in the FFL. :)

I will will get this new lower ready and logged out to True Prep.  I will send you the tracking when I have it.   Unfortunately, I think UPS already picked up for the day and they will not be back until Tuesday due to the holiday.


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:11 PM wrote:
True Prep is great.

What do you do with the old lower? I dont want it back. You can cut it in half and throw it in your dumpster if you want. Take this email as my written permission. Thaks again,  
On 05/28/2021 3:01 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:


TruePrep.  :)


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:00 PM wrote:
Do you have any of these FFLs already on file?

Governors Gun Club, Powdersprings GA

True Prep, Marietta GA

Georgia Firing Line, Marietta GA

If Not I will have to get one of those to send you theirs.

On 05/28/2021 2:53 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:


Ah ha!  OK, I think we were looking at 2 different dimensions.  Oddly, when we build it here, the difference is about half that extreme as to how far out on the lugs it sits, but there is definitely a difference.  I had Rusty pull a new lower for you, making sure to measure in that spot to be sure it's good, we are bringing that one to the attention of our head machinist and the engineer so they are aware that it happened.

Now, I will need a FFL file copy of the local gun shop that you will be using for the transfer.


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 1:46 PM:
Here are 2  more pictures, same Colt bolt catch, same detent, same spring, same Colt UPPER, both your lowers. See the difference?  
On 05/28/2021 12:56 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:


Good afternoon!

So...they put that lower together just now and paired it with an upper, and it is functioning just fine and measured well within spec.  We are using MIL Spec Bolt catches, what are you using?


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM wrote:
I was in a gun store today about 20 miles from where I live, called TruPrep, I noticed they had a lot of your product in stock on the shelves.
On 05/27/2021 5:10 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:



Received your lower just now.  Guys are gone for the day, but I will get this taken care of tomorrow for you.  Will let you know what they say!


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:10 AM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:
Awesome, thanks! I will be sure that Monty sees the photos! I will keep you updated when I receive it.


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:08 AM wrote:
I shipped via UPS, here is the tracking # 1z66e0f00395598521

Im also attaching 2 more pictures that demonstrate what the issue is. One lower is perfect, the other the bolt catch only partially engages the bolt lugs. Thanks for looking at it.  
On 05/25/2021 9:35 AM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:


Good morning~

Yeah, he basically said that it would be impossible for him to make a determination without getting hands on it.  

You are allowed, as the owner, to ship that directly to us for "warranty work."  If fixable, we can send that direct back to you, but as I said, if a replacement is in order, we would have to send that to your local FFL for a transfer again.  If that sounds agreeable, please ship to us at

Centurion Arms
RMA# AT001
8985 N Carmel Ridge Rd
Morgantown, IN 46160

Let me know when you send it, so that I know to keep an eye out for that to arrive.  :)
Thank you, and I apologize for the hassle.


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 9:55 PM wrote:
Thanks, not a problem, thats why I bought 2. If its legal to ship back to you I can do that for you to examine. Attached is a pic of my other lower attached to a Colt 6921 upper,  
On 05/24/2021 4:36 PM Corrie LeClair < [email protected]> wrote:



I am sorry to hear you're having an issue with the lower.  I can't say we've run across that problem of that part being shallow.  I am going to run this by Monty and see what he thinks.  If we need to replace it, unfortunately it will require another transfer through your LGS.   I will get back to you with an answer by tomorrow morning.


Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]


On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 9:31 AM wrote:
I recently bought 3 CM4 lowers from a LGS, one has an out of spec issue. The problem is with the bolt catch. When you push in on the bottom of the ping pong paddle it bottoms out before the bolt catch moves enough to completely catch the bolt. It does catch the bolt, but it only catches about half way the lugs. Its not the bolt catch or the detent or the spring. I tried several others.

The receiver is not machined deep enough in that first pocket and the ping pong paddle bottoms out. I measured it with calipers and compared the depth to your other receiver and some others I have. Its about 20 thousands shallow.

You can tell when you push down on the ping pong paddle it doesnt feel like its moving far enough. Doesnt feel right because its bottoming out as the pocket is shallow. See picture attached. Is this fixable?

Thanks,



Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
Kind Regards,
Corrie LeClair
[email protected]

And another,

Its to ugly to use in my opinion, and I am not interested in a blem so since you say its only cosmetic then I have no guilt in selling it to a LGS, even at a loss. Someone else can have it, thanks anyway.  

On 05/10/2023 10:57 AM Sales Team  wrote:


Got it.  Well, as I said, we do not have anything but blem to offer as replacements right now.  Let me know if you'd prefer that.

      Kind Regards,
      Corrie LeClair

             


On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 9:13 PM wrote:
0484 is serial #, bought sometime in 2021 from Tru Prep in Marietta Ga. Went right into my safe.

Picture attached.
On 05/08/2023 12:35 PM Sales Team  wrote:


Well, it looks like that detent hole is drilled off center.  It won't affect function at all.  

I'm not seeing a lower order here for you.  When/where purchased from and what serial number is it?  We could look at replacing it if the canted pin bothers you....but I'm fairly certain that all we have left to replace it with are blem lowers.
Let me know that info!

      Kind Regards,
      Corrie LeClair



On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 9:24 AM wrote:

One of your Lowers that sat in the safe many months, just finally got it out. Pivot pin looks awkward off center, see picture attached.

Ya just never know man, the best cut lower I own came from the same reputable company that made the worst cut lower I own, a lower so bad it sits in a box stripped and lonely because I just can't in good conscience sell it to somebody. On the other side of the coin, the best cut lower is so good it makes even the shittiest of uppers look good.

Been playing what I call "stripped upper/lower roulette" for years, about 13 years now of assembling my own AR's and i've gone through quite a few to find the well-made and superb fitting few combos I have now. Still have probably 8-9 stripped uppers in one of the parts boxes.

Unless you're buying in person and the store lets you bring in parts for test fit, lol, you're just gambling and hoping for the best.

Sometimes even an upper or lower that is out of spec, has a mate out there somewhere that is also out of spec, but in a way that compensates/compliments the other part and you wind up with a nice tight fit, so don't be too quick to dump parts unless they are just whack.

It's a true moment of joy when you assemble a lower, then start going through your box of uppers to check fit and find one that is absolutely perfect, makes it worth the hassle to me.

Exactly my point as well, its a crap shoot, no matter what supposedly reputable company you buy from.

My best experience is with factory built Colt rifles. The only problem I ever found was a hammer with no J spring.

I have an Anderson lower I use for testing, its perfect in every way. It really is a gamble, especially with lowers.

Its unreal how much out of spec crap I have returned or thrown away.

My worst lower is a Magtactical

the buffer retainer pin was misdrilled and caused the buffer to hit the pin

it now is the host for my DL44 blaster

Not exactly sure why, but for some reason or other I like that, a lot!

Sometimes the rear take-down hole in a lower can be out of spec, and actually placed way too far forward and you never know it, shooting smaller calibers like 5.56mm.

If you look at your upper receiver(s), the rear hole is not round at all.  It's hotdog shaped, front to back.  That eliminates, or should eliminate, any recoil load on the rear lug of your upper receiver.

If that hole is placed too far forward on your lower, you will now have recoil load hitting your upper's rear lug, and with enough force (enter 450BM/50Beo/458SOCOM), it will break the lug off.

I've seen guys swear that their lower is perfectly in spec, since all their small caliber uppers pin up and have worked fine for years, but with a big bore on there, it will repeatedly bust off lugs regardless of the upper's manufacturer.

Tony

In my mind...

A reputable company fixes their mistakes.
A quality company prevents mistakes.
A budget company has wider tolerances that may hide mistakes.

I have seen a lower with the trigger pin holes too low from the top.

This.

Only problems I have ever had are the rear take down detent & spring hole was too small & had to drill it out & on another lower had to file some metal off the take down pin holes/section

I assumed that both take down holes in the upper were circular.  I checked Colt and LMT uppers with the take down pin, and the rear hole is not circular, it's kind of oblong front to rear.
Thanks for posting this information.  After so many years I learn something new.

How do we know they are full cut pockets? I have never seen that in a description. I am all for....weight savings

Just look at it. Also commonly called an M-16 pocket cut .

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/What-s-up-with-this-lower-receiver-shelf-/12-753392/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Updated-2024-list-of-M16-cut-stripped-lowers/118-785893/?