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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:04:17 PM EDT
Here's my M4A1 clone. EDIT: Actually just an M4 clone as I just learned. Always thought the flat top upper came in with the A1 upgrade but apparently that was an XM4 to M4 change.

Nothing fancy but it fills a niche in the collection. It is SBR'd, even though that seems ridiculous for the negligible difference in length with a pin and weld.

The lower is pretty straightforward PSA M4A1 marked, with a basic PSA lower parts kit, a fat F3-marked A2 grip, a Mil Spec carbine buffer tube from Luth AR, and a surplus M4 waffle stock with rack number. There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though.

The upper came from my parts box, and has a Luth AR ejection port door assembly, and a round forward assist from my parts box. The carry handle is a GI surplus one that I picked up in a trade a while back. The bolt carrier group is a chrome lined, phosphate Microbest Mil-Spec carrier that I got from AR15Discounts.

The 14.5 inch, 1:7 twist M4 profile barrel and A2 flash hider are from Luth AR and again the A2 front sight is from MA Parts. The carry handle had the complete rear sight assembly already. The handguards are double heat shield M4 ones from my parts box that came from some trade or another.

I added the sling swivel after I did these pics and had the right rivets.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/13/2024 10:45:30 PM EDT
[#1]
I like it!  Looks good.  ??
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 7:54:47 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons.

However,  I'm not in a weapons company.   Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:48:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Snip
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:51:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Doesn't look very A2ish.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:55:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Sometimes a basic no frills M4 is all it takes.

Looks great.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:15:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons.

However,  I'm not in a weapons company.   Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour.
View Quote


I think I'm dating myself with my love of rack numbers. It doesn't seem to be as much of a thing anymore. It was a thing for a long time. I have M1 carbines with rack numbers and you'll see them on older stuff a lot. I have surplus A2 stocks on my A2 and A4 clones with rack numbers but I'm guessing that largely went away with the addition of the bar codes and maybe with M4's in general too?

There are a number of archived threads here with rack number pics and descriptions although thinking about it, they probably are all older stuff. Mostly M16A1s, some A2s.

Attachment Attached File


(I know, my top rail on my A4 is seated in this pic!)
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:21:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Doesn't look very A2ish.
View Quote


Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies!
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:28:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't look very A2ish.


Hmm, you're not wrong. I guess I lump A2/M4/A4 etc in the same military family. But you are correct, that's not what this forum is. I was thinking this was the more proper sub than Retro but it still isn't correct. Apologies!

Just being cheeky.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:09:13 AM EDT
[#9]
I still remember seeing a M4 with a tanker back in the late 1990s, and I was hooked.

Regarding looks, I still love the early M4 / M4A1 with its thicker hand guards and N 1 stock. After almost 30 years it is now a classic and iconic carbine.

You did a good job and I really like it.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I still remember seeing a M4 with a tanker back in the late 1990s, and I was hooked.

Regarding looks, I still love the early M4 / M4A1 with its thicker hand guards and N 1 stock. After almost 30 years it is now a classic and iconic carbine.

You did a good job and I really like it.
View Quote

The original M4 without accessories are classic and pretty.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 4:51:56 PM EDT
[#11]
They do look good with the CAR stocks.

Now that my dumb ass realizes the difference between the XM4 and M4 I may add an XM4 to the list with the fixed A2 upper and CAR stock!
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 4:59:06 PM EDT
[#12]
It still meets definition of an a1 clone.  Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 6:02:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons.
However,  I'm not in a weapons company.
Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour.
View Quote

Spent two+ years in the Army National Guard and 22+ years on active duty and I doubt I ever saw a weapon without a rack number.  
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 6:21:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It still meets definition of an M4A1 clone.  Early A1 was exactly the same as an M4 except for auto vs burst
View Quote
Clarified for anyone else who may have my initial take.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 6:28:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Clones of XM4, early M4, and early M4A1:

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:37:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It still meets definition of an a1 clone.  Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst
View Quote



Lol, see now that's what I thought too (although I also though the flat top didn't come about until the M4A1) but I got grief on the Reddit Mil Clone group that it basically couldn't be an A1 without rails and optics!

I thought the early A1's were like this too but I capitulated and just went with M4 after catching crap, lol.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:37:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Clones of XM4, early M4, and early M4A1:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/Early_M4s_JPG-3215248.JPG
View Quote


Nice! Those look good.
Link Posted: 5/16/2024 4:56:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back.

The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings.
Link Posted: 5/16/2024 4:33:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back.

The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings.
View Quote

Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack:

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/16/2024 5:45:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol, see now that's what I thought too (although I also though the flat top didn't come about until the M4A1) but I got grief on the Reddit Mil Clone group that it basically couldn't be an A1 without rails and optics!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It still meets definition of an a1 clone.  Early a1 was exactly the same as an m4 except for auto vs burst
Lol, see now that's what I thought too (although I also though the flat top didn't come about until the M4A1) but I got grief on the Reddit Mil Clone group that it basically couldn't be an A1 without rails and optics!
You thought right.

M4A1 MWS (Modular Weapon System) is what you officially get when adding a RIS (or later, a RAS, starting late 1997 or early 98) to the standard M4A1 (which was issued with the plain oval M4 handguards initially).

The TMs reflect this as well.

The M4A1 was fielded to SOCOM units prior to the original RIS being fielded to all of them. I think Delta got the RIS first because there's a picture of them with either a prototype or early production RIS. It took a while for the SOPMOD package to be introduced (after the M4A1 was fielded to many units).
Link Posted: 5/16/2024 7:10:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG
View Quote

Interesting, that I didn't know.

I was always curious when I've came across them like that. ??
Link Posted: 5/17/2024 5:40:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG
View Quote


Thank you for that. Now I understand.
Link Posted: 5/17/2024 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:


I added the sling swivel after I did these pics and had the right rivets.

View Quote


I just finished up one similar. I used same lower but added the little pony to it. 80% of it was just spare parts I had in the parts box. The swivel is where I am not sure. A lot of the pictures I looked at does not have the lower sling swivel but a side sling swivel only instead. I have been debating which way to go. I have a lower swivel here now I can just throw on and be done or spend another $40 for a side sling swivel.


Link Posted: 5/18/2024 10:58:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Gotta move the carry handle back in order for it to fit in the rack:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/armory1_jpg-3215871.JPG
View Quote


Huh, never knew that either! Great tidbit to have. Thanks for the enlightenment!
Link Posted: 5/18/2024 11:00:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You thought right.

M4A1 MWS (Modular Weapon System) is what you officially get when adding a RIS (or later, a RAS, starting late 1997 or early 98) to the standard M4A1 (which was issued with the plain oval M4 handguards initially).

The TMs reflect this as well.

The M4A1 was fielded to SOCOM units prior to the original RIS being fielded to all of them. I think Delta got the RIS first because there's a picture of them with either a prototype or early production RIS. It took a while for the SOPMOD package to be introduced (after the M4A1 was fielded to many units).
View Quote


Hah! I backed down when all these younger guys jumped on saying they never saw them issued that way. I figured they must be right since the M4 era was mostly after I got out. Well, plus I saw in the Air Force Reserve a good chunk of my time in and we didn't have anything current, lol!
Link Posted: 5/18/2024 3:55:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There’s no cage code on the stock so I suspect it’s actually police surplus, not military surplus. Maybe off of a Bushmaster? I’m calling it close enough, though.


My early 2000 OEM Colt waffle stock is completely unmaked.
Nothing unusual.


Quoted:
I don't recall seeing "rack numbers" on military weapons.

However,  I'm not in a weapons company.   Just seen a lot at various reserve centers over the years, and what I saw in one overseas tour.


Rack numbers made with stencils are long gone… a sharpie is all it’s needed nowadays.
This stock comes from the 173rd ABN

Link Posted: 5/21/2024 2:31:18 PM EDT
[#27]
OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find).
Link Posted: 5/22/2024 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find).
View Quote


Noted. I did put a front sling swivel on not long after taking these pics, so that’s done.

Are Colt handguards that much different? Honest I’m not sure what these ones are. Double heat shield, fat M4, but I’m not sure whose.
Link Posted: 5/22/2024 10:49:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, consider Colt handguards, staking the endplate, putting on the rear sling swivel, and adding an RRA front swivel (easier to find).
View Quote


Hadn’t even thought about that rear swivel until you mentioned it. I just did a quick Google for parts an am not seeing anything coming up. I’ll look more later or see if I have another I can steal the parts from.
Link Posted: 5/23/2024 12:03:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Hadn’t even thought about that rear swivel until you mentioned it. I just did a quick Google for parts an am not seeing anything coming up. I’ll look more later or see if I have another I can steal the parts from.
View Quote

Try JSE Surplus.
Link Posted: 5/23/2024 7:10:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice picture. I was amused to see the carry handle installed too far back.

The first M4 I saw back in the late 1990s had the removable carry handle and was dark grey. I cannot remember if it was BURST or AUTO. It hat a W prefix serial # and "COLT'S MFG. CO.INC." markings.
View Quote

Carrying handles were set one notch back for the locking bar of the arms rooms racks at the time.  "W" prefix was only for M4s starting at W000001.  Earlyist SN I've come across in the wild was W000489 belonging to the 82nd which I inspected in 18/19' in Astan.  W300000 block were reserved for the M4A1s.  When we got ours in spring of 95' in 5th SFGA they ranged in W302xxx-W303xxx.

These pictures of me and my M4A1 in Jordan Aug 95'
Attachment Attached File

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Few months later in Haiti and then we're just starting to get Block I items (TA01NSN ACOG).
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/26/2024 9:51:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Carrying handles were set one notch back for the locking bar of the arms rooms racks at the time.  "W" prefix was only for M4s starting at W000001.  Earlyist SN I've come across in the wild was W000489 belonging to the 82nd which I inspected in 18/19' in Astan.  W300000 block were reserved for the M4A1s.  When we got ours in spring of 95' in 5th SFGA they ranged in W302xxx-W303xxx.

These pictures of me and my M4A1 in Jordan Aug 95'
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Jordan_95_shooing_M4A1_Carbine_jpg-3221351.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Page_00_M4A1_jpg-3221352.JPG

Few months later in Haiti and then we're just starting to get Block I items (TA01NSN ACOG).
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/Haiti_95_M4s_jpg-3221353.JPG
View Quote

Great pics, I enjoy seeing them each time.
Link Posted: 5/26/2024 10:36:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Updated pic. Front swivel was put on not long after the first post. I did swipe a rear swivel off of another stock.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
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