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Posted: 4/2/2024 8:48:05 PM EDT
I bought this rifle as a donor to build my daughter a retro carbine. But after pulling it down to inspect, I think it might be all original.
Opinions before I make a mistake by splitting it apart to build something different. It is a Palmetto Armory BH 15A1 (223-5.56). It has some parts that I thought were mismatched, but now I am not sure. It looks the assembly was made from some new parts and some used parts. I’ll group my questions with the pictures, as I post them.  Attached File Attached FileI haven’t seen a rifle upper paired with a CAR15 type stock on an OEM AR15 before. The upper receiver, fh, buffer and tube (2 position), grip, and handguards look used but everything else looks fairly new. The stock looks new and is like a fiberlite without the ribs and no markings. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 8:53:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought the upper had been odg ceracoated when I bought it.
It won’t chip off and look to be the actual anodize under a magnifier.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileLooks green compared to charging handle. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:00:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Stock looks way newer than rest of rifle.
 Attached FileThe grip looks to have originally been brown, then green, then finally black.  Attached FileFH  Attached File |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:00:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Original? No.
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:06:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TC1030]
[#4]
Buffer and spring were the dirtiest parts in the rifle. Have never seen a buffer design like this before.
 Attached File Attached FileBCG was paired/marked with the upper receiver.  Attached FileFSB is cast and barrel only has SS 5.56 stamped on it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:12:13 PM EDT
[#5]
So this is just a decades old Frankenbuild and wasn’t sold by Palmetto as a complete rifle.
Ok. Just have to come up with the rest of the parts to build a carbine upper now. Thank you. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:37:25 PM EDT
[#6]
It looks like the upper, bolt, and possibly the barrel were on a rifle in an armory of some type.
The buffer looks like something old but not sure what it would be from, but I'm no expert. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:07:46 PM EDT
[#7]
That's an 80's lower, not the current PSA
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:36:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dull-shooterM4]
[#8]
SGW on the upper makes me think was made by Olympic?
Eta1: Palmetto was made by oly too i think. Could have been a complete rifle. I seem to remember Olympic doing that configuration. (Didn’t some Canada colts come that way?) Still probably an 80s mixmaster. ETA2: in the 80s, lots of makers made cheap receivers and used mil surplus and contract overrun parts. Many receivers only then totally mixmaster “factory” guns. The industry was not like today. Colt still had patents and was the only AR/M16 maker until overrun and surplus parts started to hit the market. Especially when the A2 transition came about. Small makers popped up making crude lowers and did not yet have the actual tech drawings so they reverse engineered them. Kits were cobbled together from surplus. Cheap lowers filled the void. Then complete guns came to market built from the same kits. Did it come from palmetto that way? Maybe but who actually knows. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:01:24 PM EDT
[#9]
All the palmetto a1 I have seen including the carbines all had a1 uppers. I do not think that is factory original.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:03:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Few more things I noticed.
The front handguard has less ribs than typical a2. Seen them before but don’t remember where. Probably 80 commercial production? Odd the stock does not have the two ribs. Real interesting buffer. M forge code on A2 upper might be Mueller? Yes fsb looks cast. Grip is A1 style might be a “mottled” grip under that paint. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:14:01 PM EDT
[#11]
I see why you'd think it may be as sold/assembled by Palmetto Armory, I bet it is. Or mayb upper and lower combo got switched around or was custom order.
But, I'm just guessing, and have no knowledge about the company past a cursory googl search. People are going to see Palmetto and think Palmetto State Armory, and then see the A2 upper and not care because A2 get no love in the retro forum, you might post this in the A2 forum. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2manytoys]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dull-shooterM4: Few more things I noticed. The front handguard has less ribs than typical a2. Seen them before but don’t remember where. Probably 80 commercial production? These are highly sought after Lone Star Ordnance hand guards. Odd the stock does not have the two ribs. Typical 80's aftermarket stock. Real interesting buffer. Buffers and buffer tubes were often made in house using methods that were easy, but not accurate reproductions. M forge code on A2 upper might be Mueller? Yes fsb looks cast. Looks to me like an Olympic/SGW upper and barrel. Grip is A1 style might be a “mottled” grip under that paint.Surplus A1 parts were easy to find in the 80s. I still have a lot of butt stocks and triangle hand guards I got from SARCO that were/are in really great shape. Also remember getting 3 packs of G.I. surplus gas tubes for $9.95. Great times. I started building ARs in the 80s and used parts from SGW just like these. There was a pre-ban lower mfr. named Palmetto Armory (possibly related to Olympic), no relation to current PSA. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:52:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#13]
Buying & selling is limited to the EE.
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WV, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:23:45 AM EDT
[#14]
The barrel I'm thinking is Olympic Arms...
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:37:56 AM EDT
[#15]
It looks to be a pretty standard mutt Olympic/SGW/Palmetto preban rifle, using a typical mashup of parts but mostly ‘80’s commercial.
Can’t believe no one has called out that 601 grip… |
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:55:31 AM EDT
[#16]
I was waiting for that 601 grip to get noticed!
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Posted: 4/3/2024 12:38:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HipSh0T]
[#17]
601 grip!
Edit: I was beat to.the call |
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Posted: 4/3/2024 12:52:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks again to everyone for the parts education.
I was able to improve my Google search and find out a lot more with the direction from your comments. It is a Palmetto Armory bar stock machined lower, with SGW stamped in it a few places along with OLY WA. SN is 1xxx so it think it was made in 1979. The 5.56 / SS barrel stamp matches up to 2 barrel pictures for Olympic Arms 20” HBAR barrels. One is in an archive here. The Stock matches a few old Olympic carbine ad pictures that I found. Buffer tube has a 2 hole ring instead of castle nut. Buffer is real heavy and rattles. Has an aluminum bumper instead of a rubber one. Haven’t been able to get the handguards off to check under them. Here is a better picture of the grip.  Attached FileMight have found a complete carbine upper for this build in Columbus. Supposed to pick it up tonight. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:03:00 PM EDT
[#19]
yup, police issued 601 furniture were painted black over the green military furniture. That is what you have there. Worth $200.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:55:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dull-shooterM4: Real interesting buffer. Yes, I've never seen one like that before. 
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DEU
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Posted: 4/4/2024 7:08:16 AM EDT
[#21]
I cannot help much here, but the plastic stock looks a lot like a SGW / Olympic stock from the early 1990s I have here:
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LA, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 11:55:45 AM EDT
[#22]
More photos of that buffer please. Perhaps next to a ruler if possible. Also, are you able to get a weight on it?
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Posted: 4/4/2024 12:22:49 PM EDT
[#23]
I will post better pictures of the buffer tonight.
I think I can get an accurate weight from our kitchen scale. After I cleaned and looked at it better, I think that someone made it from a rifle buffer. I will try to find one for the pictures for comparison. |
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Posted: 4/7/2024 9:33:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Scale is dead. It beam balanced between H1 and H2 buffers that I have. Closer to the H1.
It was definitely made from a rifle buffer. Soaked all of the goo off of it. The end button isn’t aluminum like I thought. It cleaned up a reddish color and is as hard as a rock. It looks like someone coated the inside of the receiver extension with Antisieze.  Attached File |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 5:15:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Handguard looks like the early Lone Star Ordnance wannabe A2.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 4/10/2024 11:12:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blfuller: Handguard looks like the early Lone Star Ordnance wannabe A2. https://preview.redd.it/there-is-a-set-of-lone-star-ordanance-rifle-handguards-on-v0-q3tp0a2rsmi81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ddc7228b3d1b711385cfa31aa2f3b8fa56ef1f49 You're correct, it's a Lone Star. |
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DEU
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:18:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blfuller: Handguard looks like the early Lone Star Ordnance wannabe A2. https://preview.redd.it/there-is-a-set-of-lone-star-ordanance-rifle-handguards-on-v0-q3tp0a2rsmi81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ddc7228b3d1b711385cfa31aa2f3b8fa56ef1f49 I always love this picture and the set-up of his rifle. "Billy, you know something, wht is it? - I'm scared, Poncho. - Bullshit (voice cracking)! You ain't afraid of no man." |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Pulled the handguards off and didn’t find any markings.
I didn’t pull the heat shields out.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 10:04:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Interesting. I would have thought them to have had this marking inside.
 Heat shields look right, outside looks right, but no markings… odd. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:37:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ThatGuy01]
[#30]
Those are early LSO handguards. Stock is Olympic/SGW. Barrel is Olympic as well (SS 5.56 was how they marked ALL of their barrels back in the day). The "SGW" on the inside of the upper tells you that Olympic (under the SGW name) assembled it from parts back when you really did have to headspace AR bolts to barrels because no one was building to the same TDP.
That rifle buffer modification wasn't uncommon back in the day, it was done because it was a LOT easier to get rifle buffer bodies than it was to get carbine buffer bodies. One of the local gunshops in the PNW had a pile of them along with Olympic cast FSBs. What you have is basically an Olympic-built rifle from a long time ago. Pretty cool. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 1:41:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Thank you all for the detailed info.
It tells me that the rifle is probably all original and that I should leave it as it is. Definitely not going to tear it apart. Will just enjoy it as it is and give it a good home in the rack. Besides, now I have a good reason to look for another builder. I really miss my OA XM177 copy and want to build one like it again. You never forget your first one. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:59:34 PM EDT
[#32]
I have noticed most of the palmetto lowers I've seen had H&R lower parts in them.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:48:19 PM EDT
[#33]
I think the bolt catch and hammer are the only parts with markings.
 Attached FileAre they identifiable as H&R parts from these markings? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:19:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TC1030: I think the bolt catch and hammer are the only parts with markings. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/594071/A4D9D148-8A06-4482-A6EC-6A764B5661F4_jpe-3197220.JPG Are they identifiable as H&R parts from these markings? The bolt catch is either H&R or GM. I’m not sure on the hammer with looking it up. It would have obviously been modified from m16 spec though. |
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