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Posted: 4/8/2024 11:39:23 AM EDT
I’ve got a 13.7 ar that’s my main squeeze and I’d like the option of folding the stock. The gun is tuned just right and has an intermediate/a5 buffer system.
I’m curious if I can still run the same sprinco green/a5 system with the law tactical folder. I believe you simply add the folding mechanism to your existing setup, correct? Also, are they proven reliable and durable? This is my hd rifle and my highest end build and it needs to work every single time. TIA |
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"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.” |
[Last Edit: Daggertt]
[#1]
You're adding weight to the bcg with the receiver extension needed to bridge the gap between the receiver and the buffer.
The standard part weighs 2.2oz or something. You can buy an alternative part that only weighs 0.43 oz. https://borebuddy.com/product/law_ulw/ No experience with the lightweight options. But adding 2oz to your recoil system might impact your performance. I'm pretty sure that's like going from carbine buffer to H3. |
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[#2]
Durable? Hell yes, and then some!
Reliable? Yup, once you get it tuned. KAK also has a lightweight version, that is the one I have. https://kakindustry.com/lightweight-bolt-carrier-extension I have two LAW folders, and they are TANKS! I also have an ARIC, but I don't trust that as much. Needs more work to get it perfectly tuned. With that said, they are HEAVY, and they do not charge or fire when folded (well, they will fire once). Not sure if it is worth it unless you are really hard up for room. (Some old pics) Have one on my .22LR conversion. Works fine and I don't need a buffer tube. Have one on a 7.5" 300blk with an ARIC (does not use standard buffer tube, so it can be charged and fired while folded) Next up for me is most likely a Sig Rattler LT upper that is naturally bufferless. |
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[Last Edit: wildearp]
[#3]
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Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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[#4]
Another vote for everything said above.
As long as you install correctly and loctite/stake where needed, I have zero qualms about the reliability of mine. It has never given me one second of trouble and locks up very solid. There is a spacer between the back of the BCG and the buffer face that adds weight to the total reciprocating mass. You can offset this by going to a lighter buffer, but chances are you won't be able to get to the exact total buffer weight you are running today, very easily at least. Downsides: It adds bulk and weight, and even when folded, the back of the receiver is then very fat. I'm not sure how they could possibly execute the device any better; it is just adding a function that is non-native to the design and therefore it is just not going to be super "clean" in terms of form factor. My other dislike is it adds complexity to disassembly, which, especially if you were to be in a hurry for some reason, is not ideal. Half the time I forget I have to pull the spacer, so I pop the pin, try to open the receivers, and then stare at it like an idiot for a second until I remember. Obviously that last part is on me, but it is just another contributor to the wonky form factor. I'm not going to sell mine, but I'm not going to buy any more either. I have a Spear LT that is so much nicer in terms of the folding functionality, and I would just go that way again if I wanted more folding guns. |
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[#5]
All the comments above are very good.
I like mine on one SBR that is intended to fit in a back pack. Quality is very good, and very solid. It does add weight and for the purpose, I'm cool with that. The extra effective buffer weight is pretty easy to compensate for. Its expensive, its heavy, and it complicates break down. All fair points. So, if these are acceptable compromises for your particular firearm, jump in. It's a good piece of kit, well made and well thought out. Does it belong on your firearm? I cannot say. |
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[#6]
I use mine on a rifle with a RRA Entry stock, and it gets me (my) perfect length of pull in a tight hold.
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[#7]
The only folder worth buying is the Law.
They do make a replacement bolt carrier that allows you to shoot when folded. |
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[#8]
Originally Posted By Daggertt: You're adding weight to the bcg with the receiver extension needed to bridge the gap between the receiver and the buffer. The standard part weighs 2.2oz or something. You can buy an alternative part that only weighs 0.43 oz. https://borebuddy.com/product/law_ulw/ No experience with the lightweight options. But adding 2oz to your recoil system might impact your performance. I'm pretty sure that's like going from carbine buffer to H3. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Daggertt: You're adding weight to the bcg with the receiver extension needed to bridge the gap between the receiver and the buffer. The standard part weighs 2.2oz or something. You can buy an alternative part that only weighs 0.43 oz. https://borebuddy.com/product/law_ulw/ No experience with the lightweight options. But adding 2oz to your recoil system might impact your performance. I'm pretty sure that's like going from carbine buffer to H3. Designed for low recoiling setups such as 300blk subsonics, reduced recoil loads, the Bear Creek 22WMR and 17HMR uppers, etc. Machined from solid black Delrin. |
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Award: Accomplishments 24/365
1 MOA ALL DAY LONG™ |
[#9]
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Award: Accomplishments 24/365
1 MOA ALL DAY LONG™ |
[#10]
Originally Posted By panthermark: Durable? Hell yes, and then some! Reliable? Yup, once you get it tuned. KAK also has a lightweight version, that is the one I have. https://kakindustry.com/lightweight-bolt-carrier-extension I have two LAW folders, and they are TANKS! I also have an ARIC, but I don't trust that as much. Needs more work to get it perfectly tuned. With that said, they are HEAVY, and they do not charge or fire when folded (well, they will fire once). Not sure if it is worth it unless you are really hard up for room. (Some old pics) Have one on my .22LR conversion. Works fine and I don't need a buffer tube. https://i.imgur.com/U6QcR7l.jpg Have one on a 7.5" 300blk with an ARIC (does not use standard buffer tube, so it can be charged and fired while folded) https://i.imgur.com/glOj1sp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/s3RDqL1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/f5QiWTj.jpg Next up for me is most likely a Sig Rattler LT upper that is naturally bufferless. View Quote Does anyone make a lighter extension that works with the Gen4 Sylvan folding adapter? |
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[#11]
I had three of them and they were all very durable. Never needed to change a thing to get them to run. But I sold them all and am just sticking with the Dead Foot Arms folder on my one SBR.
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[#12]
Originally Posted By Lancelot: The only folder worth buying is the Law. They do make a replacement bolt carrier that allows you to shoot when folded. View Quote This right here … I have one on my 300blk build and it is solid and just works as advertised. I eventually want to get a 2nd one because I like the extra length it gives and want to put it in my 16” end of the world rifle. That also would give me one pistols and one for rifles. |
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I know you can feel it let it in people will still hate you in the end.
So hate back, plan the attack then they will realize they cannot crack the mind of a fucking maniac. The voice inside you always wins your grave's been dug so lie in it. |
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#13]
If LAW didn't have SOTAR pushing their product they probably go out of business. Even Brownell's cant give those folders away now at deep discounted prices. People have gotten wise and figured it out.
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[#14]
Originally Posted By Lancelot: The only folder worth buying is the Law. They do make a replacement bolt carrier that allows you to shoot when folded. View Quote By the time you buy the Law and the ARIC bolt carrier and a gun, even a cheap Anderson or PSA your now in MCX Virtus territory which is a much more better folding rifle option. |
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[#15]
Originally Posted By OTDR: By the time you buy the Law and the ARIC bolt carrier and a gun, even a cheap Anderson or PSA your now in MCX Virtus territory which is a much more better folding rifle option. View Quote If I'm going to run some specialized bcg that removes the need for a buffer tube, then i want to install a pic rail rear adapter and run a smaller, lighter stock that folds tighter and doesn't flop open. |
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[#17]
Originally Posted By panthermark: My folders don't flop around. Remember, there is a hinge tension screw you can adjust. https://www.arfoldingstock.com/img/GEN3-M_Instructions.pdf With that said, the LAW + ARIC is not worth it over a weapon designed to be bufferless IMO. It is neat, but overpriced. When you use the ARIC, the you remove the buffer and spring, so that saves weight. I can add a pic rail adapter like what is shown below (I have one that I was going to add to my .22), but I have not bothered: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fglobalassets%2F10000%2F06%2Fl_923000071_3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7938464053070926235b9433f7b40e0d8438a53dbf5b765b1b898977ca5e1efe&ipo=images Neither my .22 with a LAW, nor my 300blk with a LAW and an ARIC have buffers/springs in the buffer tubes. I still want a SIG Rattler LT whenever Illinois allows us to have fun stuff again. I'd rather have that than a LAW + ARIC. Edit: Now that I think about it, I'll have to test it out to see if a pic rail adapter will fit with the ARIC. It will fit with the .22, with the LAW or not. View Quote Which would mean you have to use the aric + law as a system. Which, again, I wouldn't find interesting. |
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[#18]
If you want something that can fire while folded, I would look at the Dead Foot Arms folder kit. I have 2 of them and they have been 100% reliable.
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[#19]
Originally Posted By Daggertt: I'd be interested to see what you find. It looks to me like the aric is designed to use the space the law folder provide and it therefore wouldn't work with the kns or other pic adapter. Which would mean you have to use the aric + law as a system. Which, again, I wouldn't find interesting. View Quote I took a quick look (without having to remove the buffertubes). I would say "it depends". On the item I could quickly find (below), it would probably "not" fit, but it would be really close. I looked online at some other parts, and the threads of some adapters were not as deep, so I would say some parts could work with an ARIC. The pic rail adapter in question probably would not work if it was meant to go over a bit of the retainer pin. But yeah, the LAW+ARIC is not worth $650 IMO. It would be wiser to invest that additional money into something else that was designed to fold. Click To View Spoiler |
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[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#20]
Originally Posted By Daggertt: I'll add that even ignoring price, the whole point of the law folder is to allow the gun to fold with a standard buffer tube and bcg. If I'm going to run some specialized bcg that removes the need for a buffer tube, then i want to install a pic rail rear adapter and run a smaller, lighter stock that folds tighter and doesn't flop open. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Daggertt: Originally Posted By OTDR: By the time you buy the Law and the ARIC bolt carrier and a gun, even a cheap Anderson or PSA your now in MCX Virtus territory which is a much more better folding rifle option. If I'm going to run some specialized bcg that removes the need for a buffer tube, then i want to install a pic rail rear adapter and run a smaller, lighter stock that folds tighter and doesn't flop open. Yeah, this. The LAW folder has one singular use. Folding the gun to get it more compact for storage/transport while still being ready for (almost) immediate employment. The ARIC system is expensive and from everything I’ve seen, finicky and unreliable, which isn’t totally shocking since it’s a total redesign of the operating system that’s constrained by keeping the same overall AR15 architecture. It also shrinks the operating envelope of the gun considerably (which is also not shocking), as evidenced by the need for suppressed vs unsuppressed part #s. If you want to be able to fire while folded, go buy a system that is designed from the ground up to do that. You should be able to do that for similar(ish) money as the LAW/ARIC. I’ve got a Rattler and I’m building another 300BLK gun with a LAW (sans ARIC). Both guns have similar, but still different envisioned roles. Figure out what yours needs are and go from there. Attached File |
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[#21]
Originally Posted By WUPHF: Yeah, this. The LAW folder has one singular use. Folding the gun to get it more compact for storage/transport while still being ready for (almost) immediate employment. The ARIC system is expensive and from everything I've seen, finicky and unreliable, which isn't totally shocking since it's a total redesign of the operating system that's constrained by keeping the same overall AR15 architecture. It also shrinks the operating envelope of the gun considerably (which is also not shocking), as evidenced by the need for suppressed vs unsuppressed part #s. If you want to be able to fire while folded, go buy a system that is designed from the ground up to do that. You should be able to do that for similar(ish) money as the LAW/ARIC. I've got a Rattler and I'm building another 300BLK gun with a LAW (sans ARIC). Both guns have similar, but still different envisioned roles. Figure out what yours needs are and go from there. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/294984/IMG_8259_jpeg-3187500.JPG View Quote Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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[#23]
I had one. As other's have said it's a tank. But I ultimately sold mine because it was too heavy/bulky for what I needed it for. It also doesn't play nice with a UTM bolt (if that's your thing). I'd rather have something that was designed to have a folding stock on it than try to retrofit something that wasn't. For specific use cases I think it's a great option.
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[#24]
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Tom Sawyer.
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[#25]
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"An age of glory passed like a lightning flash. The mandate of heaven passed from you but you didn't see. Times change and power passes. It is the pity of the world."
Song dynasty poet |
[#26]
Thanks for all the feedback. And nice guns!
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"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.” |
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