I think if the rifle has the defining characteristics of a Mk12 - handguards, SWAN Sleeve, optics / mounts, and especially the muzzle brake and collar, suppressor - it belongs here.  We all know how expensive these builds are; many of us simply can't afford the higher-end Night Force or Leupold glass, or the OPS suppressor.  My personal feeling is that glass and stocks are largely up to the builder; I highly doubt anybody is going to undertake a Mk12 build and put an Aimpoint or ACOG on it.  Some of the real purists may disagree with me, but who gives a shit what kind of lower you base the build off as long as it's a quality part?

I had posted this in the original thread but figured some wouldn't be able to see it there. This was built in 05. The can was added in 06.  The paint shade changes every other year or so.  I'm considering getting Leupold to change the reticle to a TMR.  Maybe a different bipod this year too.
ETA: it's on the hood of my Jetta TDI.  I really miss that car

Hot damn that thing is sweet!

Err... having problems with photobucket.

To be continued...

ok here is one of many dumb questions I need an answer to. When people ask me what I'm shooting I tell them its an mk12 mod 1 etc etc. But who do you guys say actually makes the rifle? LMT? Mine is one of the beauties that came from High caliber, but with a mil rifle with an NSN etc. who the heck would I say is the actual manufacturer?

dude, that's a absolutely badass build. I'm dying to camo my build but short of some rattle can jobs on mags and other cheap builds I have no experience at all. I don't want it to be some $$$ pro mantle piece job. And I guess the best description of what I'm looking for at the risk of looking like a complete poser jackass which is what it is, i'm looking for the kinda 'on the fly' camo jobs that we see on most of the rifles that are being used be guys currently deployed...

Was that a DIY job, if so how difficult was it, and any advice on where to go to get started?

Thanks.

+1
Now I am thinking about painting mine. is that krylon or gunkote/duracoat?

To the guys looking for painting info:

#1:  the hardest part about the whole job is waiting....for paint to dry.  Creativity and personal expression will benefit you in something like this, IMO.

It took me a long time( a few weeks actually) to get over painting a $3000 plus system(esp. the scope).  Having done that, here's what I did.

Everything I used can be found at Walmart or a hardware store with a big spray-can selection.

Start with a base coat. I figured since I was cloning a rifle being used in the Sandbox/Rockpile, I would use colors native to those regions.  I used either Krylon or RustOleum flat camo paints in Tan, Olive Drab and very little Black.

Here's the camo paint. RustOleum camo paints

I sprayed a few coats of the different colors as the spirit moved me.  I tended to go a little dark, having read in some sniper book " I'd rather be dark and be wrong than be light and be wrong".  Seemed like good advice.

Next I looked for something that would add texture and not involve me sprinkling sand and small pebbles on wet paint (past project that was 7/8 of a tank full of fail).  I ran across this stuff at Walmart one day :RustOleum Textured Finish.  

It comes in several colors suited to making rifles low observable. I used Desert Bisque , Forest Green and Aged Iron(sparingly)

WARNING:  spray LIGHT coats of the textured stuff.  It will run a lot faster and a lot worse than regular paint.  Keep the can well shaken and move it around as you apply it.  It isn't supposed to look perfect.  

The pics don't do the textured stuff justice. It looks really great in person.  One thing with the textured stuff though is the texture tends not to be impervious to outside assaults, so I sprayed over it with light coats of the camo basecoat and that blended as well as protected the texture.  I am overstating the fragility a litle though.  The paint job you see in the pic is about 2 years old.  I have since repainted it in a similar scheme.

I figure I used 4-5 cans of camo paint and 3-4 cans of texture coat.  YMMV.  Like I said before, I painted as the spirit moved me, and when it didn't look quite right, I added more paint rather than remove. I figured that layers can wear off,  creating slightly new patterns as time goes on/rifle gets handled, but removing "mistakes" would have been wasting money.  

As with any paint job, mask what you don"t want painted.  For me, that meant the numbers on the BDC knob, the windage numbers, the faces of the knobs and the magnification numbers.  The scope was painted in place, so the flip up covers protected the lenses.

Not quite a pulitzer quality write up and not a HSLD newest coating on the market job, but it serves the purpose.  I am no longer .mil, do not try to pass my self off as SF/Sniper/Tier 1/Shuttle door gunner and always tell people what this rifle is when asked: a clone of the Mk12MOD1 Special Purpose Rifle, 00/01 era technology that worked/works well for it's intended purpose.  Funny thing, with this rifle painted like this, when it comes out of it's case at a range, it ALWAYS gets serious looks and even a few will walk up and ask about it.  Sometimes when shooting with the can, people seem to try not to look it's way.  Kinda interesting.  

Hope this helps any wishing to do a similar make-up job to their rifle.  Any Q's shoot them my way.  

BTW, painting the can IS a waste of paint

STICK!!!! Not fair dude!

got to go and one up us all with your photo's.......

On the positive side, My Stock shipped finally, so maybe i can finally add some pics soon enough.

Its sad to say that my MK12 MOD 0 build fell by the wayside. I made it work much better for me as a stripped down lighter weight SPR. That being said, if anyone is building a MOD 0, I have a few parts for sale in the EE.
























 

 

MK12 Mod 0 upper: PRI vs. High Caliber Sales.

Hi guys by this summer, I should have enough money saved up to finally purchase a MK12 Mod 0 upper. I have dont alot of research, and have heard nothing buy good things about both High Caliber Sales Mod 0 upper and P.R.I.'s Mod 0 upper. So my question is about the price differance.

PRI's webiste shows the price for their MK12 Mod 0 upper as= $1,978
High Calibers websites shows a price for their Mod 0 upper as= $2,230

They both use Douglas barrels, both built per spec. The High Caliber does come with a harris bipod, so you minus the $90 for that your still $150 more than P.R.I. I know the people at High Caliber built these at Crane originally, but I also hear P.R.I. is the one that rebuilds these for the military when they get tore up. I dont think I can go wrong in anyway with either one. But am curious what you guys that may have one or the other think about your upper and which you would choose and why? Thanks

I have a High Caliber mod 0 upper. The upper package also comes with a KAC bi pod mount and KAC sling mount. I have been around guns for a long time and this is one fine piece of equipment. I can not speak for PRI's customer service but Kevin at High Caliber is top notch. I would not think twice about ordering from him again. The uppers that High Caliber sells are custom, you can add or leave out parts if you would like to. I would say hit up both High Caliber and PRI with an e mail. You can get a feel for both of them that way. Like I said, I do not know how PRI treats customers. I do know that Kevin would be hard to beat as an all around nice guy who will work with you.

your rifle...it's so....so.........SWEETTTTT! Like'n that paint job man The man in the brown truck brings my other SPR barrel I ordered tomorrow

Thanks for the idea to contact them both. I will do that. Does anyone on here have the P.R.I. version?

That is really nice!

 
What's up with the windage?

IMO the price difference between the two uppers when optioned equally is fairly minor. I have heard nothing but good things about the 3 main vendors, however whatever the price difference may be, it was worth it 100x over to know that Kevin at High Caliber is there any always willing to help.

Hes fantastic to deal with both before and after a purchase.

After recieving my mod 1 from him, I was having what I though was a BCG/ejection issue before I got a chance to take the gun out to the range. It turns out the problem was 100 percent my fault and was due to the charging handle dragging on the top of my LMT Sopmod. Regardless, I left a message with kevin and by the end of the day he followed up with both 2 emails and a phone call just to make sure everything was ok. For me its hard to put a price on customer service like that, especially for a high price build such as this

Thanks for the kind words guys ––

Please recall that the MK12 uppers are built by AJ Brown.  Alan was involved, while employed at Crane, in their development and in their builds both out of OH and in house.  He was also involved in supporting the Teams as an armorer both east and west coast (and, occasionally, overseas).  While I see Larry Vickers name being tossed in the ring I'll mention that when Larry wanted a MK12 Mod1 for his use/collection he came to Alan for a build (prior to HCS or Centurion being formed...).

Re pricing –– well....guess I might point out the obvious in  that there are a lot of PRI parts in the Mod0 and we purchase those parts from (yes, you guessed it...) PRI and then have them shipped to us.  I like to think that when you compare apples to apples (ie, as mentioned by StretchMaK, check to see what all is included in each package) that our pricing is pretty competitive with the folks that have already made a profit at the point where we are just beginning.  You can adjust the pricing by asking for more or less to be included in the build.

Bottom line to me is you will not go wrong with an upper from any of us (as mentioned recently) –– we all use top grade parts.  Shop around –– pretty obvious that there is more to all of this than just the price (which is significant!).  Personalities and resulting allegiances enter into all of this custom gun building.

I can tell that we are proud of what we offer and think we have a unique insight into the weapon development and builds. We try to offer about all there is related to the platforms we deal with –– kind of a one stop shop for your MK12 - 13 - 18 needs.

Just some thoughts that come to me as I read thru these threads and, as always, YMMV!  

We all share the knowledge that the MK12 is a pretty special platform and is great to own for a lot of reasons...... I am really glad that this thread was brought back to life.

Kevin
HCS, LLC

Also thought I'd toss out some rifle painting thoughts –– I know that feeling of uncertainty prior to painting a complete rifle for the first time –– we all do!  

Funny story –– I'd been wanting to do this for quite awhile –– had all of the paints, the netting , degreaser –– all on a shelf and ready to go –– I just needed to take that first step.  Well, I'm old and at that time of life where every 5 yrs someone's supposed to look up my butt –– so I come home one afternoon after colonoscopy –– it's sunny, warm, I've got time and I'm still a little "liquored up" on Versed –– it's a great day to paint that rifle!  (That's called courage in a bottle...)  

I painted the gun and it looks just fine –– done it once and I could do it again (even without the Versed on board).

Here is a link to what, I'm certain, is a pretty classic thread on a lot of boards from Pat Rogers: http://op4guy.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-to-paint-your-carbine-by-pat-rogers.html

Take a look it's not as hard as you think

KJO

Yep, once you take that first step, its hard to stop. I have more painted ARs than I have black ones right now.
 

I painted my first MK12 years ago. back before it was the cool thing to do. Reason was because they shine like damn beacons when viewed through nods. It was hard to do at first, but now every rifle I own is painted. even my ak's at least get a coat of flat black.

hahha so true, I ruined the finish on a couple Fal mags a while ago. after about 10 minutes in the refinishing forum, and a couple of rattle cans I camo'd about 10 of my mags. It is much much easier to get a nice look then I would of imagined. I figure one or two more practice sessions and then im gonna make my -12 look OD Tan legit!

For those of you who've used the Sierra Precision SPR grips; how have you liked them, and how would you compare them to the rest of the market?

I have only used the SPR grip (unless I count the A2 standard) so I can't make a comparison, but my personal experience with it for 6 years now has been great.  Comfortable and great looking.  People who have fired my rifle always comment how nice it feels and how it fills up the hand with out making the reach for the trigger a stretch.  Hope that helps.

if you're RH they are nice. They are pretty damn chunky, so if you have smaller hands or plan on shooting lefty then they might not work for you.

One thing I've noticed about most of these builds is that they're not DIY builds, which I love to do.  Is there any good reason why those of you who have Mk12 clones who typically like to build your own ARs decided to purchase a pre-assembled upper from High Caliber, Centurion, ADCO, BCM, etc (aside from their outstanding reputation)?  Just curious.

Another question I have is regarding White Oak barrels.  I just missed an 18" WOA SPR barrel in the EE that had about 2500 rounds through it and the seller claimed that White Oak barrels are only good for roughly 6k rounds.  Is there any legitimate evidence to support that claim?  I ask because I am planning to use that exact barrel for my build.

mine was a dyi build.
I guess its easier to get a complete build instead of trying to shop around for parts.

The seller of the WOA barrel is probably a BR shooter who tracks every single round he shoots.  Once the groups start to open up they get a new barrel.  It's probably nothing the average shooter would even recognize but the serious BR crowd does.

Heres my build I finally finished a few minutes ago.










BCM upper receiver
BCM SS410 SPR barrel 1x8"
BCM Auto BCG
BCM gunfighter charging handle
BCM receiver extension
Noveske lower receiver
PRI handguard natural
PRI 06-SPR-PEQ
ARMS 40L rear sight
YHM front sight
Magpul ACS stock
Magpul MOE grip
Leupold 2.5-8x36 MR/T M1
TPS TSR medium steel rings
Tac 16 suppressor
I realized while posting this, not a single piece is to spec, not even the top rail. However, I prefer how it came out. I'm suprised I haven't found anyone using the PRI rail, fits directly to handguard and I prefer the anodized black finish to the ARMS fit and finish.

I have built my own rifles before. I have two carbines that I put together myself. I put together both lowers and only one of the uppers. My High Caliber upper was bought on High Calibers reputation alone. When I first asked about the complete uppers in this thread Kevin at HC was recommended. I did a boatload of searching and could not find anything bad about Kevin or his uppers. I do think I could have done it myself but did not want to risk screwing something up with an expensive build like this one is. I tried sourcing all the parts myself and found the cost to be about the same or a small amount less then Kevin's price. If I remember right the shipping alone was over $160 for all the parts from the various vender's. I guess it came down to wanting it 100% right and so far I feel that is what I got from Kevin.

I built mine. I don't buy assembled uppers unless it is a really good deal. I get discounts from some vendors on parts because I used to work with a R&D firm. so It's cheaper for me to build it myself. AND TRUST ME, i'm penny pinching like crazy.

BTW, Stock is HERE.... pics up when paint dries.

Okay, that's something I hadn't considered.  And this brings me to another question that I've been mulling over for a little while now.  As I build my Mk12, I've been trying to think of how I can train with this thing at the range, much like I train with my entry carbine by doing tactical drills, mag changes, target indexing, and pistol transitions.  How are some ways that you guys train with this platform instead of simply shooting from various positions (bench-rest, standing, kneeling, prone, etc.)?  So far, I think setting up various targets at various distances and indexing between them, while practicing mag changes would be a good exercise.

Thoughts?

KrazyL, get those pics up, son!

Its not just Benchresters. Highpower shooters like myself, track every round on the barrel. I keep very meticulous barrel logs so that I can tell at what count my barrel is opening up. 4000-6000 rounds on a WOA barrel and I have seen groups open at 600 yards. I have also had barrels that have held over 8000 rounds. The higher quality barrels definitely seem to last longer. Hot rounds like MK 262M1 wears them out faster. Its all individual barrel/ammo specific but, that 4000-6000 is probably a norm for alot of barrels

I'm working on it...... sheesh....

I was talking with a close friend of mine a couple of nights ago, he is a USMC Designated Marksman and carried the MK12 MOD1 his entire tour through Afghanistan. I am aspiring to be an infantry Officer myself, so I was picking his brain about any training that he felt was inadequate, etc. Well his last tour in Iraq he carried a MK12 MOD0 for the last couple/few months, so he was familiar with the platform but in that time obviously some changes were made including the scope. He told me that he was given 40 rounds, to learn the new platform and zero. I thought this was just insane and pathetic all at the same time - he said that he completely missed his first two shots after receiving the rifle due to this.

Just thought I would let you guys know how much training uncle sam isn't giving some of our troops on this system... Very sad.

Not all units are that way.

Something to remember young Jedi is that the Os in your unit have to forecast ammo and ranges for training. Usually on a 6 week out cycle but sometimes even further out. Pay attention during training management classes. If the platform is new or not one that is used a lot its easy to miss. Don't be that guy.

RTUTAH: Get your dope at the different yard lines as far out as you can. It is important to have good data on the gun with the ammo you will use.  I would do this until my shoots were on call.  Once you are there, you could have a buddy set out IPSC, M-9 Qual or steel bowling pins at various ranges without your knowledge. Then you work MILing and then hitting the multiple targets. Shoot diffferent positions and refine technique.

A 6 week out cycle while in country? He received the rifle after he had been in country for a month - I don't think I illuded to that in my post, my apologies. Thanks for the advice .

Roger that.

FWIW: I think 40 rounds(If shot correctly)  on a long gun is more than adequate to learn a new scope. However, I will say, any shooter that is not comfortable with the equipment should be given the opportunity to become so.  Soldiers and leaders have to find the time to train, even while executing combat ops. Sometimes it is not an easy balance, however when you are counting on that shoot as a PSG or PL you want to know your shooter is comfortable making it.  The only thing that gets him there is range time.  So my rambling is just to say, Its all about balance but shoot and train when you can. Stateside and downrange.

Standing by...............

Pics or it didn't happen...LOL!

I double dare you to post a quick "mortal type phone pic" of it .... instead of your usual photgraphic masterpieces..:-)

This is actually very common.  I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1,  but most guys aren't that lucky.  On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them.  It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential.

I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl,  with a collapsible stock,  and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures.  With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.)  From my experience,  even with schools/training,  my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be.  Many of them are clueless about the platform.

And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time.  USMC has limited assets.  It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load.  I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan.  I took the bolt carrier out,  bore sighted,  and shot 9 rounds for my zero.  I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo.  5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m,  which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees.  Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics,  I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase.  Most DM's aren't that smart,  and I can testify to that.

Triple dog dare you to post a cell pic  lol