I picked up a handful of low cost laser/lights (see other thread in this forum on that)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Cheap-Amazon-weapon-lights-and-lasers-circa-2024-Lazy-s-comparisons-and-review/20-786095/

Of note, many of them will likely be put on a 45 degree offset mount, to stay out of the way of the main optic system.  As such, they will be offset a little bit both vertically and laterally.  

I'm curious on zero philosphy folks use with lasers on a long-gun.

In general, my guns all have pretty high nominal sight offsets(i.e. like a typical AR15) my main sight zero I use for:

9mm PCC optical zero = 25 yards (which ~100 yards)
.22LR optical PCC = 25 yards (which also ~100 yards)
M4 and similar 5.56 optical zero= 200 yards
6.5 Grendel guns optical zero= 100 yards

With the laser being a supplemental targeting system, and likely closer encounter usage.

I'm vascilating between running a15 yard zero on the lasers, or maybe a 50 yard zero on the lasers.  At 15 yards, which is day-time usable distance for a green laser, that will be great, but 50 yards with such a zero would be wildly off (such as night time usage).  But at 50 yards zero, I'll need to do a decent offset at closer ranges if I want it to hit within under an inch of intended.  

For those who have mounted a weapon laser on a rifle, what distance are you happy with?

All my lasers are parallel to my optic.  So if my laser sits 1” right of my bore line and say…1.5 inches below the optic, I go to the farthest distance I can see and put the laser 1” right of my optics point of aim, and 1.5” below it.  Given the more coarse adjustments of most lasers, generally speaking I just set it where ever it will be immediately low and to the right (or left) depending on the laser.   Good enough.

That way my holds are basically the same as they would be with my optic, for simplicity sake (less the offset of course).

100 yards is best for everything unless you get into super niche stuff, IMO

Thank you for the replies.  Neither were the direction I was going, and something I've actually thought about for a few days.   My initial focus was to get a perfect zero at the most "pragmatic" practical and common distance, and try to figure out what that is.  But the first reply was pretty well thought out, and got me thinking that may not be the way to go here...

The thought of "just run the offset" is an interesting one. I was trying to focus on zeroing it for a best-distance, recognizing that a laser tends to be shorter range.  But the problem with that, is if the system has any meaningful barrel offset (and most do), you're still going to get way off at any other distance.  Offset impacts at shorter distance are inescapable regardless of whatever distance I chose.   And if I choose a really short distance like 7 yards, the farther distance offsets are still going to get insane to the point of non-usable.

After a re-pondering, I think what I might do is start with the question: what is the maximum distance I am likely to utilize a laser?  My answer to that is: Laser's are predominantly a night time/ low light conditions application - so to that end, "what is the maximum distance in those conditions, I'm likely able to comfortably ID my target and fire? which is to say, how far can my illumination system reach, with any degree of confidence?"   And my answer to that, nominally, is on the order of 100 yards at most.  Most of my units are light/laser combo's and are not expensive.  Which, in 2024 have actually gotten quite impressive, but even with that, 100 yards is pretty far for a weapon mounted light to illuminate something, and pretty darned far for a night engagement.  (or that's my thought?)  I have thermal that I'm going to run for serious night engagements; with lights and lasers being secondary usage and "fun usage".

So here's my thought, recognizing @Marksman14 's note that basically - the offset is going to be there, deal with it and work with it... but my own desire to be as close to mark as I can, I think what I'm going to do is along the lines of target a 2" offset at 100 yards, in the opposite direction.  So that it will cross  somewhere in between.  Which nominally will be something like a 50-60 yard or so zero (it will vary).  Which means at CQB, it's going to be 2" offset on the closer targets.  And to the point - just deal with it.  For most actual shots, 2" offset at 10 yards, isn't actually that big of a deal - and if I actually know my gun and run it, I'll know that and account for it the few times it is.

When I get a chance, I'll take some measurements and run some calculator tables to see what that will translate to on target.

Curious if others have thoughts, as well as what kind of zero distance additional others use for their rifle-mounted-lasers.

50 yards

Edit: For night vision and active aiming.

Converge the laser on the reticle at the furthest possible distance. Done.

My two 300 blks with lasers are zeroed at 50 yards, same as the dot.
My .22LR is zeroed at 25 yards, same as the dot.  
All of my lasers are at 12:00, which avoids the offset issue, and of course, these are "shorter" range weapons.

If I were going to use it on a long gun, it would probably be parallel with the optic, especially if the laser isn't at 12:00.....or beyond maximum shooting distance.

Think of it like this.  If your laser is at 3:00, and you zero it at 200 yards. Given the drop of the bullet, you will have a "usable" target area for well past 300 yards, which is further than one would shoot with a laser anyway.   But from 0 yards to 200 yards your laser will always be to the right of impact (how high or low depends on the zero, and bullet type, offset mount, ect).  Beyond 200 the laser will be to the left of impact, and with bullet drop, your height offset won't be that bad for awhile.

One thing I will add is that you might want a quad rail on a long gun.   I'm right handed, and I can tell when I'm putting rightward pressure on my upper because my laser will be slightly to the right of my red dot.  It reminds be to apply neutral pressure with my off hand (pull straight back with my off hand), and my laser re-aligns with my optic.   On my shorties, it isn't bad, but I could see a lot of flex on a longer rail, especially when shooting further out.  

Thanks for all the replys.  There are multiple flavors of guns and applications, that can have different nuances as well.

For a minimilistic mount and forget and KISS (as much as possible), here's an light M4 patrol build, with a combo green laser and 450 lumen light.  It only adds about 1.3 oz, which is nothing short of amazing really.



In this manner it's able to be mounted at 12:00, and is a little loser to bore-axis.  However, to not show up in the low power optic, I have to mount it back pretty close, "under" the glass, which is tidy and I like the sleak look and balance and all.  The one wrinkle though with this approach is that 450 lumen light illuminates the top of the handguard like a gleaming beacon and blinding lightbulb itself, which isn't appealing.  (everything has trade-offs, sigh)  The advantage though is it's a tidy mount-and forget, and for 99.9% of the shots fired through that gun, it won't even be on .  But if my optic goes down, or it's night and I need a light, it's there.  I may just run it like this for a while and see how I like it.

Ok, but for something like this next gun, I can't do that, as the optic is already too low, and being a 1X, mounting it any farther forward even on a 45 degree offset, pretty much blocks a lot of the optic.  It's a tiny gun, so mounting anything on bottom or side-rail is going to get in the way of my hand.  So I'm going this route.   And will do it via a Quick Release mount (which it's on here) at a 45 degree, to keep it out of the way of the optic main sight.  Trade-off here is some of my light is blocked by the left side of the gun, and it's a quick-release, so may not be mounted on the gun when I need it, but back in the bag (which will almost always be with the gun).  I could just leave it on I suppose.



Here's an SBR'd 6.5 Grendel that I use as a day-carry patrol gun when hog hunting out not expecting to see anything, but while putting out corn, etc, and it's tiny and light.  For it, I'll likely not leave a mount on it, and likely go with a QR forward mounted 450 or 600 lumen unit, mounted on a quick-release system like this.  I need to test how well the quick release holds zero.  (and how well the handguard holds zero).  Have that in my pocket, and just pop it on at night.

The adjustments on most lasers are so coarse that if you're worried about an inch or so at 100 yards, you've likely selected the wrong tool.

These things are not for precision.  You're going to be limited by a ton of factors at distance.  Eyesight and ambient light being two of them.  

In short, you're way overthinking the offset issue.  Setting it to converge as far as you can see, or parallel (IE *just* visibly off from your optic in the directions of the mechanical offset) is absolutely good enough for a laser.

But that's what I do!    Though kidding aside, you're absolutely right on all counts.

LOL, and here I thought you were supposed to be the *lazy*engineer.

I agree with all of this, but I do have one caveat.  At night, (especially when humid), I can see my (green) lasers on a structure about 600 yards away across an open field.  Actually, when looking through my 3x, it is basically a green line from the end of my gun to the structure as I can see the entire beam.   It is something I would probably never do, but I do wonder what it looks like from the other side?

So that was an educational range day.  This was way more academic than I was accounting for.  First off, I forgot that a $25 Amazon laser /light combo - is very much not a 100-yard day-laser.  It's very much not even a 50 yard day-laser.   And a just terrible 25 yard day laser.  It mostly works as a 15 yard day laser with a little effort, and is pretty good at 10 yards, as a day-laser.

Zero'ing a gun at night isn't always so easy - it's generally done during the day.  Zero'ing for 100 yards was pretty much out the window right off the bat.   What I was able to do, with a gun rest combined with a spotting scope, was to align the laser to where the main sight was targeted, at 50 yards.  

I also learned that a $25 Amazon laser is very much not a 1/16" circle of green light, at 50 yards.  It's closer at a 1" smudge of green light.  At night, it works and works great, and will go out many hundreds of yards yet.  But during the day-time, kind of forget about it.  But, using that 50 yards as a zero distance I then shot at 25, 15, and 10 yards, and compared to main sight.

Also, another trick I did, was once "zero'd" to alight with main sight at 50 yards, I'd then take notes before doing anything else, of what that looks like at 10 yards, and draw a picture.  That way, I can "zero" the green laser at home at a regulation 10 yard distance, by repeating that picture.  

I also discovered $25 Amazon lasers move around some.  Interestingly enough, the bigger the light/laser combo, the worse it got.  So the sweet 700 Luman light/combo unit that is 2-3x the size of the 450 lumen unit, was terrible at holding zero on the laser.  the 600 luman unit was only a little better.  


The 450 lumen unit actually was serviceable.  Would I trust The Big Show to it?  With lots of banging around and lots of rounds.... I guess we'll see.  I think I would with the 450 lumen sized unit, for getting shots on target at 25 yards (which for the most part, is the laser's job on a $25 rig), but I still want to test that some more.

Finally, cheap mounts, are an education everyone should go through (or read up on others).  To be honest, the $2-$3 Gogoku Discount Code Amazon bulk pack (Very Special Price - Just For You My Friend!), units, actually are mostly OK (for the price).  the issue is the "quick-release" thumb nuts suck, and come lose in a hurry once you actually start running a gun.  And probably weren't doing me a lot of favors at holding my laser zero.  But it's much better if you use a wrench or tool to torque and tighten them down.  Which kind of undermines the "quick release" component.  I'll keep an eye out for throw-lever units.

Also, as a reminder zero's for optics systems and laser and sights, are highly depending on the toque used to secure them.  Adjust the torque on that even a little, and you're hitting 12" off in one direction or another.  Which is another appeal to lever systems, which are going to be more consistent than any thumb-screw or tool based system, unless it includes using a torque-wrench.

Would I do this again?  Oh heck yea, these rigs actually are quite remarkable for the price point.  But I'm also learning which models hold zero better than others, etc.  

Either parallel, just make sure you know your correct off-sets or at long distance ~ 500m line up your optic x-hairs/dot and IR laser.  

Its useful to know your MPBR for your target and ammunition.  

4 inch centre mass - 2,800 FPS, 556 69 grain, 0.300 BC, near zero 42 yds, far zero 208 yds MPBR 239 yds - you'll be 1.77" high at 100 yds.
8 inch centre mass - 2,800 FPS, 556 69 grain, 0.300 BC, near zero 32 yds, far zero 260 yds MPBR 303 yds - you'll be 3.20" high at 100 yds. (for optic ~ 2" above bore).  36 yds is an excellent option for 556.

For the 36 yard zero, your hold at 500 yards will be 8.23 MOA or in modern 2.4 MILs (drop is 8.23 x 5 = ~ 41 inches + scope ~ 43).

Personally, I prefer a parallel zero as you always know where you are.

A very common mistake is to do a 25 yds zero for a 300 yds zero equivalent and converge the laser at the 25 yds POI.  Very, very common mistake.

Windage- parallel as much as possible
Elevation- zeroed for whatever distance preferred round is zeroed

This is what I do

Constant offset FTW.

Constant offset and converge at long range is the same thing IMO. At least you won't be able to tell a difference. If your laser works to 200 yards, converge at 100. You will have the same horizontal offset at 200 yards you had at CQB distances... so little you don't care. I can't think of a time I would prefer to use a visible laser over an optic at over 200 yards.

Pinpoint accuracy at CQB distances with a laser is just not a thing you need. You have a laser for speed and weird/awkward shooting scenarios where your precision is imperfect and speed matters most. You should never have to think about hold offs... if you did you would just use your real sights. Trying to get pinpoint accuracy leads to the dark side of 5-25 yards zeros and then trying to shoot at 25-100 yards while doing the natural thing of "not thinking" when using a laser as intended.

Agreed. I think the arguments about laser zero techniques that occasionally pop up about parallel vs convergent come mainly from people trying to do it at 25 or whatever. As you note, you can double your zero range on a convergent zero before the offset is greater than CQB, which is a very small offset….2”. If you converge at 25, you’d be good at 50, but noticeably off at 100 and waaaay off at 200. And 25 isn’t really far enough to be certain of parallel-ness, either, but it’s a good starting point if you’re just cranking over your vis laser to be proactive before the opportunity to adjust it further presents itself. Like when you first slap a laser on your gun at your house in the burbs one afternoon.

Here is my rifle with VIS/IR laser.  The ACOG is naturally zeroed at 100 yds, but the laser is zeroed at 25 yds.  The laser is intended for close range/indoors 99% of the time in IR mode with night vision.  The visible mode was mainly for daytime sight-in.

Attached File

You already deal with offset for optics and irons. Laser offset shouldn’t be a problem. I like parallel just to keep it consistent. Let’s be real, we aren’t using a laser for precision shots anyway. As long as you are within maximum point blank range, just line it up and shoot.

Hey, now, we're talking "Laser Precision" here!   While arm-chair and gun-bench planning, there are all kinds of precision well thought out and carefully considered planning on how this is going to work.

And then you go to the gun range, and actually run it, and all that shit goes out the window.  Because you are Sooo very right.

First off, Zeroing a Laser For Distance, is a way more casual statement than execution.  Only the most intense and highest quality laser is going to even be visible at all in the daylight past about 25 yards.  A good scope lets you notice it further, but most of the guns in quesiton are likely going to have low power CQB level scopes, not 14X NightForces.  

Then there's the question of how well does it hold zero.  Again, most cheap lasers are intended for pistol-good-enough level usage.  Actually holding a solid precise 100 yard sub-MOA zero with anything but a high-end dedicated rifle laser, isn't happening beyond a few inches.

So after all that, I mostly just zeroed mine for 50 yards - to match my rifle scope at 50 yards (which usually matches my impact, since I run the 200 yd which is close to 50 yard zero approach).  Because I quickly realized for the lasers and my usage, anything past 100 yards just isn't happening. And as others state, if the laser impacts within 2", that's good enough for the job, which is basically true out to 100 yards with a 50 yard zero laser.  Maybe a little better, since usually the laser is mounted a little closer to bore axis than main sight.

That's where I'm at now at least.  Realizing there are two audiences to this thread: Serious guys with serious kit that really is capable of running a couple hundred yards with their laser, and have reason to do so.  And dudes with cheap Amazon lasers playing CQB.  On this topic, I'm actually the later .  But respect and value the opinions for the former!

My latest connundrum, is do I do a mount and forget approach, or do I do a Quick Release approach.  Quick Release is compound of the challenge of holding zero, but mount and forget typically means in front of the scope ,and the attached flashlight losses a lot illuminating the rail, went mounted that far back...

Since general weapon setup has entered the discussion, I’ll add that “optimal” includes the ability to momentarily activate your white light and IR laser without shifting your support hand grip much, and your IR illuminator and whitelight not being shadowed much by the things forward of it.

(Double)