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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 2:46:05 PM EDT
I ordered a jakl upper and a bolt catch, SKU 516551303994. I was thinking at the time that it was what you'd need to slap this on an existing SBR'd or pistol upper.
Now I hear that there are jakl buffers and see PSA sells them in 3 packs. So what's the word? Am I good to get the range with this upper this weekend or do I need to get a buffer doughnut somehow? In which situations are the little round buffers required? I have lowers with the ol' buffer tube and the spring and carbine buffer inside them. I also have a lower with a KNS picatinny rail adapter on the back of it. 
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Posted: 10/24/2023 2:54:40 PM EDT
[#1]
It doesn't require a buffer. Recoil system is contained in the upper.
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Posted: 10/24/2023 3:00:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_Man]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGSHOOTER414: It doesn't require a buffer. Recoil system is contained in the upper. If using an existing lower, you need to get this kit to install on the lower, it replaces the entire buffer tube, buffer, and action spring in a normal AR. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-jakl-stock-adapter-assembly.html That KNS kit might also work, it just won't have that shroud part that envelopes the rear of the upper like the PSA kit has. The rear of the bolt might also bump it a bit, which may or may not cause some weird wear without the bumper. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_Man: This, the buffer 3-pack they sell is just a rubber bumper that attaches inside the lower for the bolt to bump into. If using an existing lower, you need to get this kit to install on the lower, it replaces the entire buffer tube, buffer, and action spring in a normal AR. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-jakl-stock-adapter-assembly.html That KNS kit might also work, it just won't have that shroud part that envelopes the rear of the upper like the PSA kit has. The rear of the bolt might also bump it a bit, which may or may not cause some weird wear without the bumper. So yeah, that kit you linked to has the rubber bumper in it. And they sell the 3 pack. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-jakl-buffer-3-pack.html So I reckon I'm still confused as to when you do and dont need that piece. And if you are shooting it with a carbine buffer tube, do you just take everything out of the tube? |
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Posted: 10/24/2023 3:33:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_Man]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: So I reckon I'm still confused as to when you do and dont need that piece. And if you are shooting it with a carbine buffer tube, do you just take everything out of the tube? See here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/So-I-m-an-idiot/129-776614/ Also the KNS part wont work, you need the whole kit I linked because that proprietary shroud captures the recoil spring. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 4:02:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_Man: You need to remove the tube itself, along with everything in it. It needs to have that bumper screwed into the lower in place of the tube. See here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/So-I-m-an-idiot/129-776614/ Also the KNS part wont work, you need the whole kit I linked because that proprietary shroud captures the recoil spring. Hmm. So thats unfortunate. Why even sell the upper with the required bolt catch if you also require a handful of other parts to be used on your existing lower? |
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Posted: 10/24/2023 4:06:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_Man]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Hmm. So thats unfortunate. Why even sell the upper with the required bolt catch if you also require a handful of other parts to be used on your existing lower? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Hmm. So thats unfortunate. Why even sell the upper with the required bolt catch if you also require a handful of other parts to be used on your existing lower? There is a note on the upper page telling you you need the buffer/lower parts: Must be used with JAKL buffer system found on PSA JAKL lower or lowers built with a PSA JAKL lower build kit. Failure to use the PSA JAKL proprietary buffer system may result in damage to the JAKL upper and lower. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 4:19:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_Man: I'm guessing it doesn't include all the parts to go on the lower in case someone wants to own one Jakl capable lower and multiple uppers to use on it, they don't have to up the cost of all the uppers buy including the redundant $100 worth of parts with each one. But for some reason it comes with the required bolt catch. Thats the part that tripped me up. My brain is not understanding in which situation you would need the extra bolt catch without the rest of the jakl-specific parts for the lower receiver. Seems like it would always be 1:1 if it doesn't do you any good to put a jakl bolt catch in a lower receiver without also putting in the picatinny adapter and buffer. ETA - Ok, bit the bullet and ordered a complete jakl lower. |
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Posted: 11/1/2023 9:23:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: But for some reason it comes with the required bolt catch. Thats the part that tripped me up. My brain is not understanding in which situation you would need the extra bolt catch without the rest of the jakl-specific parts for the lower receiver. Seems like it would always be 1:1 if it doesn't do you any good to put a jakl bolt catch in a lower receiver without also putting in the picatinny adapter and buffer. ETA - Ok, bit the bullet and ordered a complete jakl lower. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By D_Man: I'm guessing it doesn't include all the parts to go on the lower in case someone wants to own one Jakl capable lower and multiple uppers to use on it, they don't have to up the cost of all the uppers buy including the redundant $100 worth of parts with each one. But for some reason it comes with the required bolt catch. Thats the part that tripped me up. My brain is not understanding in which situation you would need the extra bolt catch without the rest of the jakl-specific parts for the lower receiver. Seems like it would always be 1:1 if it doesn't do you any good to put a jakl bolt catch in a lower receiver without also putting in the picatinny adapter and buffer. ETA - Ok, bit the bullet and ordered a complete jakl lower. A standard bolt catch is too thick to work with a jakl upper. You must use the modified one in the kit. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 9:57:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: A standard bolt catch is too thick to work with a jakl upper. You must use the modified one in the kit. Right. If you want to shoot the jakl upper on any lower, it needs the special bolt catch and the special buffer parts. So why include the slim bolt catch with the upper but not the buffer parts? They should make the SKUs so the bolt catch comes with the buffer parts. Every lower that needs 1 of them will need the other. Anywho, its a moot point now. I got tracking info for my complete lower. It should be delivered tomorrow. All will be right with the world. 
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Posted: 12/18/2023 1:04:24 PM EDT
[#10]
A bufferless upper that requires a special buffer... that just sounds... weird.
That said, there's one on its way to me so I can see exactly what kind of weirdness is required. |
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Posted: 12/20/2023 8:49:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: A bufferless upper that requires a special buffer... that just sounds... weird. That said, there's one on its way to me so I can see exactly what kind of weirdness is required. Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... |
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Posted: 12/20/2023 9:17:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... |
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Posted: 1/1/2024 6:06:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position.  Attached File Attached FileThe challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-)  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/1/2024 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Good News / Bad News The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG Thank you very much for the pics and follow up. Looks like it's BRN-180 time if I want a short 300BO and a folder. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2024 11:27:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Good News / Bad News The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG What are you trying to put those parts together? It makes zero sense to me. |
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Posted: 1/2/2024 12:00:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hodgescl: What are you trying to put those parts together? It makes zero sense to me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hodgescl: Originally Posted By Amish_Bill: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeah, I wasn't tracking the need for a special buffer setup. I was hoping a 300BO JAKL upper could just plug and play with an SBR'd lower, with the JAKL bolt latch, that has a pic rail adapter and MI Minimalist Stock on it for my .22lr upper. I wonder if the required JAKL pic rail adapter would interfere with my .22lr upper.... The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG What are you trying to put those parts together? It makes zero sense to me. I think that was his way of making it obvious that a standard upper wouldn't be going on a lower with the required JAKL buffer assembly installed, which was the question I was hoping to have answered. |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 2:44:55 PM EDT
[#17]
A slick side should drop right in.
It will look funny, but I expect it would work. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2024 9:45:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Why in the hell are you putting an AR upper on a lower set up for a JAKL??? Are you trying to prove that the JAKL won't work on an unmodified lower? DUH. PSA is pretty clear as to what you need to install the JAKL on a standard lower, they don't say anything about putting a standard upper on a lower that's had the F5 stock added to it.
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Posted: 1/12/2024 11:08:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Why in the hell are you putting an AR upper on a lower set up for a JAKL??? Are you trying to prove that the JAKL won't work on an unmodified lower? DUH. PSA is pretty clear as to what you need to install the JAKL on a standard lower, they don't say anything about putting a standard upper on a lower that's had the F5 stock added to it. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 10:49:17 AM EDT
[#20]
WOW. that was intelligent. You can't understand what half a dozen people and the PSA instructions tell you but I'm outraged? Maybe if you had said "Can I still use my 22 upper on a lower that's been modded to work with a JAKL" so we could understand your question? Man I'm glad I have DELETE on my computer...
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Posted: 1/13/2024 11:42:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Good News / Bad News The important part of the JAKL rail adapter seems to be a bolt in recoil buffer. A little softer than what you'd put in a 1911 - similar to the MAC and AK drop in polymer buffers. It has a bevel towards the center where it's bolted, and sits a little proud of the typical buffer position. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_1_jpg-3078097.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Buffer_2_jpg-3078098.JPG The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_Conflict_jpg-3078099.JPG This is totally misleading! Why would you try and assemble a regular AR upper to a Jakl enhanced lower? |
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Posted: 1/13/2024 11:58:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thebomber: This is totally misleading! Why would you try and assemble a regular AR upper to a Jakl enhanced lower? Misleading? What did I say that's inaccurate? As for Why... Why Not? JAKL uppers are not the only integrated recoil systems someone may have. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 1:08:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Take a step back, take a deep breath, and take your outrage to the kiddy table where it's appropriate.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/13/2024 5:19:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Misleading? What did I say that's inaccurate? As for Why... Why Not? JAKL uppers are not the only integrated recoil systems someone may have. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Originally Posted By thebomber: This is totally misleading! Why would you try and assemble a regular AR upper to a Jakl enhanced lower? Misleading? What did I say that's inaccurate? As for Why... Why Not? JAKL uppers are not the only integrated recoil systems someone may have. Thanks for your help. For the other guy, just breathe. |
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Posted: 1/13/2024 5:22:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: WOW. that was intelligent. You can't understand what half a dozen people and the PSA instructions tell you but I'm outraged? Maybe if you had said "Can I still use my 22 upper on a lower that's been modded to work with a JAKL" so we could understand your question? Man I'm glad I have DELETE on my computer... Pretty sure that’s exactly what I asked and why he included pics. I’ve never handled a JAKL upper or lower nor a standard lower modified to take JAKL uppers. Most of these integrally sprung uppers state a standard lower can be used with them. I was wanting to know if a standard .22lr upper would work on the lower modified with JAKL parts. Amish Bill’s info was extremely helpful |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 2:54:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks Tower.
There's only one detail I'm hazy on... someone mentioned recoil springs in the corners of the upper, and how they mate with the wide wings on the lower kit to stay in place. I don't know when I might lay hands on a JAKL upper to take a pic. If someone else has access to an upper, can you shoot a pic of the back of the receiver showing what needs to be contained? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 8:53:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: ... The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) ...  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 8:56:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Good & Bad - a slick side DOES fit... but the adapter is so tall you can't use any upper than requires a traditional charging handle. I'm not sure if a Spear LT upper is tall enough to put the CH over the adapter. It looks like, if you don't want or have a JAKL upper, you need something like a side-charging .22 kit, a BRN 180, FM sidecharger, or similar. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_slick_side_jpg-3101443.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Amish_Bill: Originally Posted By Amish_Bill: ... The challenge will be with your upper. it's entirely resolvable, but it will not be plug and play. I could wax poetic about it, but here's a picture instead. If it doesn't tell you all you need to know about the conflict, you might not be ready to play mix & match. :-) ... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1410/JAKL_slick_side_jpg-3101443.JPG Continuing to add useful info with pics. Thank you |
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