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USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 8:57:55 PM EDT
Like title stated. Piston AR was all the rage a few years ago. Everyone wanted one or convert their DI upper into piston.
Then what happened? Did DI prove itself again? |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 9:04:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I dunno, I bought a piston AR from Christensen in the beginning of 2018 and it's flawless. It's much cleaner too, I don't care what the DI guys say.
I have DI ARs too. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 9:09:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Why convert a DI AR into a piston when you have great factory options like PWS, HK, and even Sig MCX, BRN-180 and other AR-18 derived versions?
Piston based ARs are doing quite well still in 2023. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 9:26:14 PM EDT
[#3]
My got to is a 10.5 LWRC SBR. Thing runs like a raped ape. always on the lookout for another 10.5 or 16.
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Posted: 11/2/2023 9:31:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Cause they added unnecessary weight for no real advantage especially on longer barreled guns.
Lwrc is a pretty neat system and the new Vktr Vk-1 looks pretty cool. Especially for short suppressed guns |
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FM, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 9:38:11 PM EDT
[#5]
I have to admit. I loved my LWRC's. Wish I'd kept them.
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:17:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I have an Adams Arms kit built upper that works well so far, but I haven’t shot it much. I’m hoping it will be less gassy suppressed. But I’m happy with DI uppers otherwise.
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:20:54 PM EDT
[#7]
The US piston guns had issues bc they vent upward.
Everyone wanted a real HK…but they hate customers. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:25:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Piston for short barrel, DI for 14.5 and longer.
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ohiogators]
[#9]
LWRC is a little heavy, but still my favorite. I will never sell it.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:47:08 PM EDT
[#10]
My 10.5" franken BRN-180 I just built is pretty cool so far and my brother just bought a PSA jakl.
PSA has a billion parts and combos in stock. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:58:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: Piston for short barrel, DI for 14.5 and longer. I am personally against piston ARs because they add weight in the worst possible location. They make the gun feel heavier than it actually is because the balance is so bad. For those of us with suppressors too, it's a bit much. Then, there's the fact that you still have the shitty rear charging handle ergonomics and a stock that doesn't fold. DI ARs are only appealing to begin with because they're so ubiquitous for SHTF or war scenarios, and they can be tuned pretty easily for minimal recoil while still maintaining reliability. A piston AR with proprietary parts does away with those advantages and only leaves disadvantages, IMO. At that point, give me a SCAR 16S all day every day over a piston AR. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 11:55:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPshooter1: Mk18/CQBR disagrees. I am personally against piston ARs because they add weight in the worst possible location. They make the gun feel heavier than it actually is because the balance is so bad. For those of us with suppressors too, it's a bit much. Then, there's the fact that you still have the shitty rear charging handle ergonomics and a stock that doesn't fold. DI ARs are only appealing to begin with because they're so ubiquitous for SHTF or war scenarios, and they can be tuned pretty easily for minimal recoil while still maintaining reliability. A piston AR with proprietary parts does away with those advantages and only leaves disadvantages, IMO. At that point, give me a SCAR 16S all day every day over a piston AR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPshooter1: Originally Posted By 18B30: Piston for short barrel, DI for 14.5 and longer. I am personally against piston ARs because they add weight in the worst possible location. They make the gun feel heavier than it actually is because the balance is so bad. For those of us with suppressors too, it's a bit much. Then, there's the fact that you still have the shitty rear charging handle ergonomics and a stock that doesn't fold. DI ARs are only appealing to begin with because they're so ubiquitous for SHTF or war scenarios, and they can be tuned pretty easily for minimal recoil while still maintaining reliability. A piston AR with proprietary parts does away with those advantages and only leaves disadvantages, IMO. At that point, give me a SCAR 16S all day every day over a piston AR. Lol For reference... The Superlative Arms set screw .750 carbine length DI gas block and gas tube weigh in at around 2.2oz The Superlative Arms set screw. 750 carbine length piston block and op rod weigh in around 3.4oz I promise you I can find some way to lighten your front end by 1.2oz if it's THAT big of a deal. Also, I've been issued a mk18 for a long time... it works.... but there's not too many of us that would actively choose to use one given other options these days |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2023 12:41:15 AM EDT
[#13]
The MCX happened?
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Posted: 11/3/2023 12:51:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: Lol For reference... The Superlative Arms set screw .750 carbine length DI gas block and gas tube weigh in at around 2.2oz The Superlative Arms set screw. 750 carbine length piston block and op rod weigh in around 3.4oz I promise you I can find some way to lighten your front end by 1.2oz if it's THAT big of a deal. Also, I've been issued a mk18 for a long time... it works.... but there's not too many of us that would actively choose to use one given other options these days I'm sure you could build a lighter one that handled well with a hodgepodge of aftermarket parts, but again, I'll just buy a SCAR 16S at that point. YMMV. |
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Posted: 11/3/2023 1:47:17 AM EDT
[#15]
I shoot mine.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2023 2:26:24 AM EDT
[#16]
My 12" LMT shovelnose is probably my favorite AR
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2023 10:17:22 AM EDT
[#17]
It is still around but not in same amount of demand for GP as before.
The biggest problem in the GP market. No standards in the parts. You wind up with very hard to find parts when you need them. AA was IMHO the closest to an industry standard but they pretty went into a smaller niche market after the buzz faded. I would say the 416 is the benchmark for GP systems. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 11:18:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Get Both
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Posted: 11/4/2023 12:12:44 PM EDT
[#19]
I built up a 6.8 with an Adams Arms piston kit. Shoots great. It's my only piston AR set up. Coworker has all Adams Arms built up uppers on every AR he has except for the one complete LaRue 20" Stealth.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2023 12:37:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#20]
Sig MCX 300 BO, AWESOME piston gun.
Sig Gen2 716I Patrol 308, AWESOME piston gun. My other 22 Colts all DI, AWESOME gun(s). |
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Posted: 11/7/2023 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Isn't DI trolling forbidden here? There's like 20 other subforums you can complain about pistons in.
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USA
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Posted: 11/7/2023 8:45:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Thought this was GD by the tone of the OP....
I have both, but use my PWS piston the most. Nothing wrong with either system |
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Posted: 11/8/2023 7:06:59 PM EDT
[#23]
We realized there’s no advantage.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2023 1:23:10 AM EDT
[#24]
get both is the answer.
but, anyone who actually shoots both knows the piston is so much cleaner, especially suppressed that there is absolutely no comparison. either way it all depends on your intended use of the rifle. just want a play day range gun, fo DI, that way you wont get fatigued by how much heavier the piston is. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2023 9:27:25 AM EDT
[#25]
All the people posting piston love online realized they can't hold one up with their noodle arms. So they switched to DI.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2023 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Always thought it was a solution in search of a problem. Maybe they're great. No clue and not going to find out. Show me why my ARs would benefit and we'll talk
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2023 4:38:06 PM EDT
[#27]
if you cant see any benefit from having your chamber/magazine/bolt area stay much cleaner much longer, then I guess you just will never get it.
the old saying about not having your rifle shit where it eats may be cliché but that doesnt mean it isnt true. if you have access to a piston gun and a suppressor, take your DI suppressed and shoot 25 rounds out of your 30 round magazine, then remove magazine and look at the chamber area and the rounds left in the magazine. now, do the same with that piston gun. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 2:50:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stowe: Always thought it was a solution in search of a problem. Maybe they're great. No clue and not going to find out. Show me why my ARs would benefit and we'll talk Advantage |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 7:34:08 AM EDT
[#29]
People figured out that the AR is already a piston gun, and works just fine as designed?
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Posted: 11/14/2023 8:09:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Carrier tilt.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 10:31:56 AM EDT
[#31]
both systems work great and both have pluses and minuses
IF you shoot suppressed, piston is better. Period. Especially if you're a lefty, like me. I also suspect that a piston gun can be run harder and longer before fouling impeded function. They're heavier, you can't argue that. My two eotw carbines are piston, but my recce gun is DI, and that one has the large advantage that I can drop anyone's parts into it. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 1:49:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Also, I really wish the fde lwrc piston gun that’s on the wall of the lgs was in my budget.
 It’s beautiful and I don’t care if it’s heavy.
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USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 8:26:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mudholestomper: Carrier tilt. PWS doesn’t have this issue. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 8:52:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chocolateisyummy2]
[#34]
I have a PWS longer stroke piston AR. I got it for using a suppressor. The bolt is definitely cleaner shooting suppressed compared to a DI AR. I also like how easy it is to adjust the gas system for shooting it suppressed vs unsuppressed. It also has less gas to the face when shooting suppressed. In true Afrcom fashion get both!
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OR, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2023 8:57:15 PM EDT
[#35]
I think most people who wanted one, got one. Much smaller market than for DI's.
Only one I ended up with is a JAKL, which I like. Still have plenty of DI's too. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/17/2023 7:59:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joelad]
[#36]
I have a Leitner-Wise converted AR. LW barrel, A2 upper. I also have three Adam Arms conversions, Carbine, mid-length, and an 18" rifle length. Also, the BRN 180, and a T91.
I'm pretty well covered when it comes to gas piston rifles. But I have many more DI guns. |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 11:50:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LowRez: if you cant see any benefit from having your chamber/magazine/bolt area stay much cleaner much longer, then I guess you just will never get it. the old saying about not having your rifle shit where it eats may be cliché but that doesnt mean it isnt true. if you have access to a piston gun and a suppressor, take your DI suppressed and shoot 25 rounds out of your 30 round magazine, then remove magazine and look at the chamber area and the rounds left in the magazine. now, do the same with that piston gun. While it’s nice, it doesn’t matter in a practical sense. The maintenance schedule is virtually indistinguishable between them. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2023 5:34:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: While it’s nice, it doesn’t matter in a practical sense. The maintenance schedule is virtually indistinguishable between them. in the world of take rifle out of car, carry it to bench, shoot a couple mags, take back to car then home to clean, you are absolutely correct. in a not so permissive environment or situation you couldnt be more wrong. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2023 5:37:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: We realized there’s no advantage. since you had such an epiphany, why do you even bother coming to something as stupid and worthless as the piston systems forum anyway? |
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Posted: 11/24/2023 7:12:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LowRez: in the world of take rifle out of car, carry it to bench, shoot a couple mags, take back to car then home to clean, you are absolutely correct. in a not so permissive environment or situation you couldnt be more wrong. I’ve used both piston and DI guns in Iraq, Afghanistan and a few other places. I’ve also subjected both to heavy competitive use. I’ll stick to my original statement. |
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Posted: 11/24/2023 7:13:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LowRez: since you had such an epiphany, why do you even bother coming to something as stupid and worthless as the piston systems forum anyway? I still have some piston guns. I just no longer believe there is an advantage to an external piston. It’s not an emotional subject for me. |
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Posted: 11/24/2023 7:44:04 PM EDT
[#42]
45-Seventy is spot on.
I come to the piston forum, because they still interest my inner nerd, not because I think they do anything practical, better. They objectively don’t. Organizations that have tested this for millions of rounds and millions of man-hours in training and combat have reached the same conclusion. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 2:30:08 AM EDT
[#43]
In an effort to keep this technical-
I do believe the piston systems are getting better and better. We've invested a lot into developing the DI system which had an impact on results. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:54:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BrotherJackToo]
[#44]
I presume for the same reasons "government profile" barrels still come on 9 out of 10 ARs. Most people have never studied how the thing works enough to have an opinion about what they want, so they buy what's common and less expensive. Massive manufacturing capacity in the market for mil contracts ensures that DI components are dirt cheap and very plentiful, leaving piston guns as a fairly expensive niche market for people who know what one is and why they want one.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:43:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I’ve used both piston and DI guns in Iraq, Afghanistan and a few other places. I’ve also subjected both to heavy competitive use. I’ll stick to my original statement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By LowRez: in the world of take rifle out of car, carry it to bench, shoot a couple mags, take back to car then home to clean, you are absolutely correct. in a not so permissive environment or situation you couldnt be more wrong. I’ve used both piston and DI guns in Iraq, Afghanistan and a few other places. I’ve also subjected both to heavy competitive use. I’ll stick to my original statement. Once again, 45-Seventy is correct |
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Posted: 11/26/2023 7:03:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ohiogators: LWRC is a little heavy, but still my favorite. I will never sell it. Same here. I have a legacy LWRC piston carbine and it's like a Timex watch. Just keeps on going. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2023 8:39:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrotherJackToo: I presume for the same reasons "government profile" barrels still come on 9 out of 10 ARs. Most people have never studied how the thing works enough to have an opinion about what they want, so they buy what's common and less expensive. Massive manufacturing capacity in the market for mil contracts ensures that DI components are dirt cheap and very plentiful, leaving piston guns as a fairly expensive niche market for people who know what one is and why they want one. I would say this is probably the most likely reason. Most of the regular joes that get into an AR are buying something "off the shelf" at the nearest gun store and aren't really putting any thought into it beyond how cheap is it and gotta get something before it's banned. Nothing wrong with that, but that mentality doesn't look past what's on the counter so to speak. And piston rifles aren't as cheap to make, so they tend not to be the $1k discounted to $800 on sale type items. |
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Posted: 11/28/2023 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sowinskian: All the people posting piston love online realized they can't hold one up with their noodle arms. So they switched to DI. In a half joking/half serious sense I think there’s merit to that. How many of us would love to have a belt fed if they weren’t so comparatively expensive? But then naysay piston ARs because they’re too heavy. When the more correct statement is “it’s too heavy for me” (again this is a half joking statement and I’m not trying to offend anyone). I wanted a piston gun bad 10-12 years ago but the price kept me away. And then proceeded to build DI guns for years and looking back now I should have just saved up for one. Now that I have a little more money to blow on guns I have an LWRC and love it. That’s my personal experience, everyone’s is different but I doubt I’m the only one with 10:1 DI to piston rifles in their collection. |
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Posted: 11/28/2023 3:01:07 PM EDT
[#49]
I have a few Adams Arms uppers that I still shoot.
Reason for my purchase was quick, easy changing gas setting for suppressed. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 11:25:24 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sdwornicki: In a half joking/half serious sense I think there’s merit to that. How many of us would love to have a belt fed if they weren’t so comparatively expensive? But then naysay piston ARs because they’re too heavy. When the more correct statement is “it’s too heavy for me” (again this is a half joking statement and I’m not trying to offend anyone). I wanted a piston gun bad 10-12 years ago but the price kept me away. And then proceeded to build DI guns for years and looking back now I should have just saved up for one. Now that I have a little more money to blow on guns I have an LWRC and love it. That’s my personal experience, everyone’s is different but I doubt I’m the only one with 10:1 DI to piston rifles in their collection. It’s not that a piston gun is “too heavy” and that someone can’t pick it up. When you start adding weight forward if the receiver you effect the kinematics of the gun with regards to things like transitions. You can be the biggest manliest man in the world but physics impacts you just like everyone else. Adding weight for things like a suppressor or an IR designator come with performance advantages. Adding weight for an external piston system with no such advantage simply doesn’t make sense. |
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