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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:25:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RangeToy]
My goal was to be under 6 lbs with optic (PA 5x micro prism w/PA mini reflex red dot).
Without any accessories or optics (But with stock installed) it is 5.7 lbs PA advertises the 5x & 3x micro prisms as weighin 8 oz. No way in hell.... (EDIT:Put the optic setup on the scale & 1 lb!) I may as well just go back to an LPVO smh...After I added the optic setup listed above, the Centurion hand stop & rail covers & VTAC 2 pt sling, the weight shot up to 7.1 lbs!!!! After I added the Surefire SOCOM MINI2 can, we are at 7.9 lbs..... I know I can shave a few more ounces by going with the MFT stock, PSA BCG, lighter FH & a lighter buffer setup. However, I went with this FH because of the SOCOM MINI2 and the buffer setup because it will be suppressed full time. Full parts list below. Ruger stripped lower B5 Type 23 grip Geissele ambi safety Stag LPK V7 takedown pins, grip screw, ejection port cover & rod & end plate & castle nut Centurion 14.5" lightweight hammer forged barrel Magpul enhanced trigger guard Toolcraft BCG Warhammer CH B5 Bravo stock Centurion rail covers & hand stop Odin works extended mag release CMMG Zeroed bolt catch Larue MBT-2S trigger 2A Armament upper receiver 2A builder series buffer tube Midwest micro gas block Centurion gas tube Strike FA Geissele Super 42 H2 buffer & spring Midwest 12.6" Ultralight handguard Surefire closed tine FH/suppressor adapter |
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Sorry you missed the weight goal....
Big girls need love too |
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Get a DSA aluminum bolt carrier, move to a standard buffer and maybe add a lightweight lower.
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I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight.
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Originally Posted By Stowe: I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight. View Quote I'm not after lightest ever, but almost 8 lb is no fun for me. Gotta find ways to shave weight without making it unreliable |
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What does the MI rail weigh?
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If weight is a concern I’d always recommend going pencil. The Centurion isn’t on the heavy side by any means, but a true pencil profile would have got you closer to 5 pounds naked.
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https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: If weight is a concern I’d always recommend going pencil. The Centurion isn’t on the heavy side by any means, but a true pencil profile would have got you closer to 5 pounds naked. View Quote But it's going to be run with a can full time & I already had it pinned & welded |
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The 5x is advertised as 8.5oz, and then you added a reflex sight. I don't know what that adds up to, but should be less than a pound?
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Originally Posted By RangeToy: But it's going to be run with a can full time & I already had it pinned & welded View Quote Yeah, I would say you chose wisely if using a suppressor on it. Realistically theres only so much you can do to reduce weight before you start making trade offs. What might help is balance. Seems counter productive but sometimes more weight in the ass can actually make a gun feel lighter. A lot of Magpul UBR guys noted this but I had a big honking stainless barrel and quad rail when I tried one back in the day so it was a wash. |
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https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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Originally Posted By Nehi: The 5x is advertised as 8.5oz, and then you added a reflex sight. I don't know what that adds up to, but should be less than a pound? View Quote I emailed PA & they gave a typical bs caned reply saaying the weight is without mount lol. Then list that on your site! |
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But 8.5oz is the weight of the 5x with the mount, correct?
What does the reflex sight and mount weigh? |
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Here's how I did it, just listing the major components that impact the weight:
2A Armament Balios Lite upper Faxon 14.5" pencil barrel SLR Sentry-6 gas block 2A Armament 12" rail 2A Armament LW bolt carrier grp 2A Armament T3 Compensator Bushmaster lower ACE ARUL-E Stock Taccom LW buffer Final weight 4lbs 14oz Add a red dot and some miscellaneous stuff pushed it to 5.5 lbs. I could have done a bit better by buying a new lightweight lower, but I had the old Bushmaster lying around. ETA: To keep weight low you really need a red dot. Also don't overlook the weight of the stock, and use a very light buffer with adjustable gas block to compensate. I also opted to ditch the FA. . |
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Gun control is not the answer. Gun control is the question. The answer is NO.
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Originally Posted By RangeToy: This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable View Quote Then I would highly recommend not trying to build a lightweight rig. That doesn’t mean put an hbar on it but components that are battle tested will not be lightweight. Also it’s fairly common knowledge that PA optic weights are listed sans mount because most people swap out the shitty PA mount immediately. Same as acogs. Good luck with your build |
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Agree would not go super light for shtf. However look for the bcm ELW bFH 154.5 barrel. Take off the ambi safety and get a LW one sided. Get the Magpul port door and slick side upper. That still save some weight
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Originally Posted By RangeToy: Are the DSA BCG reliable? This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable Originally Posted By RangeToy: I'm not after lightest ever, but almost 8 lb is no fun for me. Gotta find ways to shave weight without making it unreliable View Quote |
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“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE |
Originally Posted By RangeToy: I emailed PA & they gave a typical bs caned reply saaying the weight is without mount lol. Then list that on your site! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RangeToy: Originally Posted By Nehi: The 5x is advertised as 8.5oz, and then you added a reflex sight. I don't know what that adds up to, but should be less than a pound? I emailed PA & they gave a typical bs caned reply saaying the weight is without mount lol. Then list that on your site! Considering the previous model 3x prism was over 18oz without any accessories, the micro prisms are pretty light, and have better optics. |
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Left-handed and right-minded!
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What's your max acceptable overall weight, OP?
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"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By Nehi: But 8.5oz is the weight of the 5x with the mount, correct? What does the reflex sight and mount weigh? View Quote No, 8.5 oz is without mount. It's just the optic. They sure are shady on the site with that. Reflex is supposed to be 1.1 oz I did order a ADM mount last night. We'll see what shaves off |
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Originally Posted By wheel: Here's how I did it, just listing the major components that impact the weight: 2A Armament Balios Lite upper Faxon 14.5" pencil barrel SLR Sentry-6 gas block 2A Armament 12" rail 2A Armament LW bolt carrier grp 2A Armament T3 Compensator Bushmaster lower ACE ARUL-E Stock Taccom LW buffer Final weight 4lbs 14oz Add a red dot and some miscellaneous stuff pushed it to 5.5 lbs. I could have done a bit better by buying a new lightweight lower, but I had the old Bushmaster lying around. ETA: To keep weight low you really need a red dot. Also don't overlook the weight of the stock, and use a very light buffer with adjustable gas block to compensate. I also opted to ditch the FA. . View Quote I want magnification so a dot is out. Not messing with adjustable gas block. |
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: Work out more if necessary. 8# won't kill you. GIs carried M1 Garand throughout WWII. Seriously, not being wise-ass. If SHTF gun, reliability is your goal, not the lightest possible. I would not at all consider an aluminum BCG. Build a 10-12# gun, carry that until 8# feels light. View Quote Really? Thanks for being rude. This is not about my arm strength. Have a good one! Again, I never said lightest possible. I said light(er) |
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...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
MO, USA
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Originally Posted By Stowe: I dont think I'd want to go with a lightweight BCG on a defensive gun. Honestly, I'd just run it. If you want to try and build a lightweight gun in the future, have at it. No reason not to, but for your SHTF gun, I'd say reliability is far more important than trying to shave little more weight. View Quote As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Duty Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive" _____________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
Originally Posted By PursuitSS: As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Dury Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. View Quote Are you running an adj gas block as well? |
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...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
MO, USA
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Nope
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"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive" _____________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
Originally Posted By RangeToy: PA advertises the 5x & 3x micro prisms as weighin 8 oz. No way in hell.... (EDIT:Put the optic setup on the scale & 1 lb!) View Quote Attached File 3x with factory mount is spot on. Never had a 5x in my hands to compare. Woof. Scale looks like hell, but to be fair it's on a workbench in the garage. |
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RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
"I'll come for the killing and stay for the cheesecake" SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
Originally Posted By RangeToy: I would like as close as I can get to 6 lbs with optic, but without the can. Again, no red dots. View Quote I guess my answer at this point is that no silver bullet exists in your situation. You could spend a shit load of money and start replacing stuff with magnesium and titanium. Lightweight receivers, too. Or you could replace the barrel and optic and probably pretty much be there. |
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Honestly it sounds like a well thought out build.
Everyone seems to essentially want a lightweight SPR.. But they pretty much always get to 8-10lbs with accessories, or you make some serious trade offs. You could easily get to 9lbs with any one or multiple of the following: light, laser, bipod. Edit If it was me, I would probably call that rifle good to go, and have a lighter weight 11.5" with RDS. |
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Go with the PA 3x. You won't need the 1x.
I've got a 10.3" setup running the MINI2; optic is a PA 2x with LT105 mount. With sling & wml I'm all in at 8lbs, 4oz. Wish it were lighter but it's set up the way I want to run it so "it is what it is". ETA: You could take that rail down to a 10.5" and shave a few more ounces. I really like that MI Ultralightweight setup; used it on a few builds. |
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Tom Sawyer.
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Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Honestly it sounds like a well thought out build. Everyone seems to essentially want a lightweight SPR.. But they pretty much always get to 8-10lbs with accessories, or you make some serious trade offs. You could easily get to 9lbs with any one or multiple of the following: light, laser, bipod. Edit If it was me, I would probably call that rifle good to go, and have a lighter weight 11.5" with RDS. View Quote |
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Tom Sawyer.
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My lightweight build is just about 5 lb with red dot and light. And it's been 100% reliable so far. Some quick recommendations:
V7 11" Magnesium Hyper-Light M-Lok Handguard - 5.8 oz total Brownells M16 lightweight BCG - 8.2 oz total Right there, that takes 5-6 oz off your current weight. And depending on your preference, lightweight stock and grip can save you another 3-4 oz. |
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On the MI rail, that is with the Ti barrel nut? If not you might switch it out for that. My lightweight SHTF builds end up being model 653 clones, very simple and reliable. But I know what you mean. I built a lightweight 12.5" grendel with mi rail and Ti nut, and all the lightweight components I could find, adj gas, lightweight steel bolt carrier etc, and it was impressively light until I added a mount and LPVO which ended up way too heavy. Now reconsidering the optic and getting a lightweight mount and mrds to bring balance back to it.
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Originally Posted By x248716x: the old-school CAR buttstock is pretty light, if you're trying save some ounces. maybe you could run a 13.9" barrel instead of 14.5", P&W to 16". https://i.imgur.com/x03MTN2.jpg View Quote My barrel is already pinned and welded. Not spending more money to undo it and redo it with another barrel. This is the barrel that's staying on there. I have a MFT stock. Might slap it on to see if it still feels balanced. |
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Originally Posted By yrs: My lightweight build is just about 5 lb with red dot and light. And it's been 100% reliable so far. Some quick recommendations: V7 11" Magnesium Hyper-Light M-Lok Handguard - 5.8 oz total Brownells M16 lightweight BCG - 8.2 oz total Right there, that takes 5-6 oz off your current weight. And depending on your preference, lightweight stock and grip can save you another 3-4 oz. View Quote Are there any lighter grips similar to the B5, though? I have this grip on everything as it's the most comfortable other than the Magpul MOE |
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Originally Posted By stoner01: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/284414/1000004920-3157547.jpg 6lb 7oz with the wml. 6lb 3.5 without. If i out my spare lpvo on it its 7lbs even... View Quote Build details? |
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My preference is for lightweight carbines as well, and my goal is further to maintain a regular BCG and not going to adjustable gas. (It's just something I haven't explored, although, you know, one of these days . . . . ) I think you're just bumping up against the weight/tradeoff issues that I run into all the time. Your setup sounds like it's really solid, and eight pounds with a can, with a non-SBR barrel length, and without a lightweight BCG . . . that sounds to me like about as good as you can get.
Once more, nice stick. |
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Lightweight-Parts-List-with-WEIGHTS-AR-15-/118-638524/
OP, even though your barrel is already pinned & welded, you can have it turned down by a machinist on a lathe. If you didn't go stainless, you'll have to refinish it, but that could just be Cerakote. It'll be under the handguard anyway. Or if you have a Dremel, you can flute it. Rather than using a magnified optic, I use a 1x red dot and a QD variable magnifier. I might go to a 1x prism down the road b/c of my astigmatism, but the QD flip mount lets me pull the weight off the rifle when I don't need it, and I can move it from gun to gun. The variable magnifier lets me zoom from 2-5X, makes zeroing the red dot much easier for these old eyes. |
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Death to quislings.
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Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: I would avoid an aluminum BCG in a serious use rifle. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: Originally Posted By RangeToy: Are the DSA BCG reliable? This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable I would avoid an aluminum BCG in a serious use rifle. If I had the money, I would consider it, but cognizant that it's a wear item & has to be run wet. I think JP's run for 10k, then it's done. I think the whole SHTF build thing is overblown. If TEOTWAWKI, and you survive for any length of time, there are going to be plenty of AR parts around long term. Used, but available. As long as your AR is mil-spec parts compatible, you'll be good. |
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Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By MoonlightAgain: My preference is for lightweight carbines as well, and my goal is further to maintain a regular BCG and not going to adjustable gas. (It's just something I haven't explored, although, you know, one of these days . . . . ) I think you're just bumping up against the weight/tradeoff issues that I run into all the time. Your setup sounds like it's really solid, and eight pounds with a can, with a non-SBR barrel length, and without a lightweight BCG . . . that sounds to me like about as good as you can get. Once more, nice stick. View Quote Appreciate it. |
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Originally Posted By RangeToy: Build details? View Quote Im gonna have to try and remember but the lower is a poverty pony I picked up for $69 just for gits and shiggles. Aero sporter upper or whatever the non-FA upper is called. BA 14.7" pencil profile midlength barrel. MI handgaurd that I had lying around. I had a tailhook on there but felt the LOP was off. That would take off a few more oz as well over the magpul. My goal was to use normal parts for this build. ETA I will add that some of my retro shorty guns are lighter than this but also missing a few inches off the barrel. |
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RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
"I'll come for the killing and stay for the cheesecake" SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns. |
Originally Posted By PursuitSS: As far as Lightweight Bolt Carriers not being reliable…..That’s TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! I’m running Lightweight Carriers in ALL of my AR’s including my Duty Rifle, it currently has over 8,500 rounds through it with ZERO MALFUNCTIONS! Run a J.P. Enterprises LMOS Nitride Carrier, use a Wolff XP Action spring and lube your rifle with Mobile 1 0W-40 oil. I can SLOWLY edge the carrier forward and it will still strip a round off of a full magazine. View Quote I see them fail with boring regularity. When you drop weight from the BCG you’re now narrowing the operational window in which it will remain reliable. This is acceptable with a race gun which will get a steady diet of one or two loads, but a recipient for unpleasantness with a rifle which is expected to perform under all environmental conditions with a variety of ammunition every single time. |
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Point shooting will give you monkeypox. - John_Wayne777
The Emu War could have been won if the Australians used red dots on their handguns. |
Originally Posted By stoner01: Im gonna have to try and remember but the lower is a poverty pony I picked up for $69 just for gits and shiggles. Aero sporter upper or whatever the non-FA upper is called. BA 14.7" pencil profile midlength barrel. MI handgaurd that I had lying around. I had a tailhook on there but felt the LOP was off. That would take off a few more oz as well over the magpul. My goal was to use normal parts for this build. ETA I will add that some of my retro shorty guns are lighter than this but also missing a few inches off the barrel. View Quote Thanks for replying. It is a nice looking AR. I've got a lighter BCG (Not lightweight, just 3 oz lighter than the Toolcraft) and a ADM mount for the PA optic coming. I may just yank the red dot & piggy back mount too. That V7 handguard is enticing, but that price for just 3 oz less? Not worth it after I already have the MI & did a Duracoat job to the whole rifle. |
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Originally Posted By RangeToy: Thanks for replying. It is a nice looking AR. I've got a lighter BCG (Not lightweight, just 3 oz lighter than the Toolcraft) and a ADM mount for the PA optic coming. I may just yank the red dot & piggy back mount too. That V7 handguard is enticing, but that price for just 3 oz less? Not worth it after I already have the MI & did a Duracoat job to the whole rifle. View Quote Thanks. It was just a thought exercise wit some parts I had and a Tism moment. I could definitely make it lighter if I tried but for now, it's just a nice little camping or backpack gun. |
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RS Callsign Mayhem Midget
"I'll come for the killing and stay for the cheesecake" SSgt Jason A Decker. 11/6/09 |
Originally Posted By stoner01: Thanks. It was just a thought exercise wit some parts I had and a Tism moment. I could definitely make it lighter if I tried but for now, it's just a nice little camping or backpack gun. View Quote Seems like we have to spend stupid money to get what would be called lightweight these days. |
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Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: You do not want lightweight internals for a duty gun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By RangeToy: Are the DSA BCG reliable? This will be the SHTF rifle. It must be 100% reliable You do not want lightweight internals for a duty gun. I agree with this. |
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