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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:30:30 PM EDT
Saw a thread where someone said they'd never seen a delta slipring on one.
This is the weapon I was issued in 2008, fresh from Depot. It's an FN lower, with BURST milled out and AUTO punched in. I didn't get a closeup, sorry. 4 position extruded receiver extension, 1/7" barrel, also FN marked. A2 upper with round forward assist.  There was a lengthy discussion, and apparently even some of the CATM guys didn't know, but: GAU is Gun, Aircraft Unit, because nomenclature and TOE was drawn up for aircraft mounted weapons, and was simply carried over to certain small arms (M16s were still called M16s). GAUs included both security police carbines and some of the very compact aircrew carbines, a new version of which is in issue. Later nomenclature is GUU, for Gun, Utility Unit, not assigned to an aircraft. /P is for Personnel issue. I have no idea why they didn't just use M4 nomenclature and pattern for the later weapons, but most of these were put together from parts. Original slickside slabside were still in Air National Guard inventory after 2000. As late as 2005 we were retrofitting A2 uppers onto original lowers and electropenciling BURST onto them. And then they issued us carbines with a happy switch, some of them build on brand new lowers. Since I wasn't going to be doing anything beyond convoy, route, or perimeter security (Engineer unit), we didn't have rails, NV, or anything else. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:54:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Good stuff! Thanks for the post and info.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:58:33 PM EDT
[#2]
What a hunk of junk! Your Unit must hate you!
18Z50….MK18 SOPMOD to rule them all! |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:12:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: What a hunk of junk! Your Unit must hate you! 18Z50….MK18 SOPMOD to rule them all! I missed the whole SOPMOD program, I was already too banged up to stay in the service, so I just looked on with great jealousy as you guys played with what I’d missed. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:27:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for posting, OP.
When I first joined as a TACP in the late 90’s we had the GUU-5/P at Ft Campbell and then in Germany before getting M-4’s in like 2002/3. I was told half of the ones in the arms room had the older barrels we couldn’t even use. They were slowly getting converted to M4 style 14.5” Govt Profile barrels. No rails, a mix of CAR and waffle stocks. I’m pretty sure ours had A1 uppers because I remember the rear sights, but that’s been a long time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:54:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Neat photo. The base armory must have had different issue than security force armories where pretty much everyone had M68 and KAC rail M4s by '08.
I remember inventorying a 75,xxx serial slab side Colt lower in 2009ish at the Kuwait City airport. I believe it had an A2 upper. Probably lots of those old dogs hanging around in various build states. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:25:51 PM EDT
[#6]
That’s pretty cool. Topic of interest as my son is enlisting USAF. Looks like in BMT they qualify with recent production FN M4A1 with M68 CCO (CompM4/s)… is that the same nomenclature USAF uses?
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Posted: 4/20/2024 12:27:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KILLERB6]
[#7]
One of our TACPs showed up with one of those (in Afghanistan). We were sort of envious of how light it was, even compared to our CQBRs (shorties).
I thought it was cool enough to clone one. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 4:09:56 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm a retired Security Forces/CATM troop (obviously), but I don't know how relevant anything I say is anymore since I retired in 2012, but that GUU is interesting. When I was still in, all the GAU/GUU-5Ps still had slick-side M16 (602/604) uppers. We had replaced all the pencil weight 1/12 barrels by the early 2000's with 14.5" M4 barrels. Lowers still had F/A trigger groups (as opposed to burst). So, it is interesting to see an A2 upper on it and an FN lower used on a GAU/GUU. All of them I ever saw were Colts. So, my guess is Depot down at Lackland replaced the lower and upper on that GUU. Not sure why they would designate it a GUU when it appears to be virtually all M4 in that pic (other than the upper receiver)? To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't put a flat top on it, because even when I retired in 2012, most units were slated to receive M4s with CCOs in the not-too-distant future.
Thanks for posting it up! I always loved the GAU/GUU. The were light, fast weapons. Especially with the 10.5" pencil barrels. It was pretty much a dog handler and SNCO or officer weapon back in the day. I was always jealous while I was armed with a full size rifle. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 4:18:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CATM]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MJ11B4P: That’s pretty cool. Topic of interest as my son is enlisting USAF. Looks like in BMT they qualify with recent production FN M4A1 with M68 CCO (CompM4/s)… is that the same nomenclature USAF uses? Should be M4. Not M4A1. I still work for the Air Force as a contractor and all of our M4s (both Colt & FN) are marked M4 and retain SAFE/SEMI/BURST trigger groups. And yes, the optics are CompM4s (designated M68 CCO) with Matech BUIS. I'm surprised BMTS has M4s. I guess the A2 must be pretty much all phased out now. Maybe a current CATM troop will chime in... |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 6:37:36 AM EDT
[#10]
I really liked the GUU-5/P first time I read about one. So much as I built one. Great little lightweight carbine, a favorite of mine. The upper is slick-side. Here's a good article about the GUU-5/P.
https://sadefensejournal.com/mixmaster-the-u-s-air-forces-guu-5p/  
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:19:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By MikeWilliamson: Saw a thread where someone said they'd never seen a delta slipring on one. This is the weapon I was issued in 2008, fresh from Depot. It's an FN lower, with BURST milled out and AUTO punched in. I didn't get a closeup, sorry. 4 position extruded receiver extension, 1/7" barrel, also FN marked. A2 upper with round forward assist. https://www.sharppointythings.com/piwigo/_data/i/upload/2018/05/18/20180518163359-616871f1-me.jpg There was a lengthy discussion, and apparently even some of the CATM guys didn't know, but: GAU is Gun, Aircraft Unit, because nomenclature and TOE was drawn up for aircraft mounted weapons, and was simply carried over to certain small arms (M16s were still called M16s). GAUs included both security police carbines and some of the very compact aircrew carbines, a new version of which is in issue. Later nomenclature is GUU, for Gun, Utility Unit, not assigned to an aircraft. /P is for Personnel issue. I have no idea why they didn't just use M4 nomenclature and pattern for the later weapons, but most of these were put together from parts. Original slickside slabside were still in Air National Guard inventory after 2000. As late as 2005 we were retrofitting A2 uppers onto original lowers and electropenciling BURST onto them. And then they issued us carbines with a happy switch, some of them build on brand new lowers. Since I wasn't going to be doing anything beyond convoy, route, or perimeter security (Engineer unit), we didn't have rails, NV, or anything else. Mike, this is awesome info!! Thanks so much for sharing it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:19:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: I'm a retired Security Forces/CATM troop (obviously), but I don't know how relevant anything I say is anymore since I retired in 2012, but that GUU is interesting. When I was still in, all the GAU/GUU-5Ps still had slick-side M16 (602/604) uppers. We had replaced all the pencil weight 1/12 barrels by the early 2000's with 14.5" M4 barrels. Lowers still had F/A trigger groups (as opposed to burst). So, it is interesting to see an A2 upper on it and an FN lower used on a GAU/GUU. All of them I ever saw were Colts. So, my guess is Depot down at Lackland replaced the lower and upper on that GUU. Not sure why they would designate it a GUU when it appears to be virtually all M4 in that pic (other than the upper receiver)? To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't put a flat top on it, because even when I retired in 2012, most units were slated to receive M4s with CCOs in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for posting it up! I always loved the GAU/GUU. The were light, fast weapons. Especially with the 10.5" pencil barrels. It was pretty much a dog handler and SNCO or officer weapon back in the day. I was always jealous while I was armed with a full size rifle. CATM, you too,, awesome info, thanks so much for sharing this info!!! |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:22:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagsfn: I really liked the GUU-5/P first time I read about one. So much as I built one. Great little lightweight carbine, a favorite of mine. The upper is slick-side. Here's a good article about the GUU-5/P. https://sadefensejournal.com/mixmaster-the-u-s-air-forces-guu-5p/ https://i.imgur.com/ajDaJ9s.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BFFgr1yh.jpg Awesome clone wags,, love how you Xed out the original nomenclature and remarked..! 
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:41:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Great thread!
Now I want an Air Force gun 
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Posted: 4/20/2024 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m1sniper: Awesome clone wags,, love how you Xed out the original nomenclature and remarked..! |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 12:48:51 PM EDT
[#16]
When I was in (Air Force Reserve, Aerial Port Squadron) we first had slabside M16's in the early 2000's. They went back for refurb at some point and came back with A2 uppers and stocks, the same old lowers, with A2 fire controls and auto XX's out and burst added.
I was always jealous of the GUU-5' too, especially working around K loaders and fork lifts so I built my own last year too.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 7:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CATM]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: People don’t think/can’t believe that’s how it was done, but it was (is?). That is how the M16s were done when we converted them to A2. Broke my heart to stamp out AUTO and engrave BURST and engrave A2 next to M16 on the left side of the mag well. Some of the M16s I had to convert were REALLY early rifles. IIRC, one of the rifles I had to convert to A2 was a 5 digit serial number. It should have been put in a museum because it came brand new out of WRM (War Ready Materials) at base supply. Literally a brand new rifle. We had to cut the barrier bag off it and strip it down and reassemble as an A2. The conversion kits consisted of an A2 upper assembly, A2 stock w/spacer, A2 pistol grip and A2 trigger group. When I first graduated CATM school, I got stationed at Malmstrom AFB in MT and spent probably 6 months straight doing nothing but A2 conversions. The really heartbreaking thing was, all of the slick-side uppers and barrels had to be de-milled. The stocks, handguards and pistol grips got smacked with a ball peen hammer and thrown in the trash. We did save the old chrome non-serrated BCGs and used them in our training rifles, even though the forward assist was useless with the carriers. Wish I could have liberated a few of those uppers and parts. They were beautiful rifles. Funny side-note: there is a converted A2 out there with "BREAST" engraved instead of BURST. One of the knuckleheads in our shop thought he was a funny guy. Last known location was at Malmstrom AFB, so AF guys keep an eye out! EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot about a green 4-digit rifle we had in the Security Forces armory back in the day. It was the only rifle we hadn't converted because it was so cool, so it was on display in the armory. That is, until we had an ORI or UCI inspection and the inspector found it and forced its conversion. THAT was the most heartbreaking conversion. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 8:31:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CATM]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: When I was in (Air Force Reserve, Aerial Port Squadron) we first had slabside M16's in the early 2000's. They went back for refurb at some point and came back with A2 uppers and stocks, the same old lowers, with A2 fire controls and auto XX's out and burst added. I was always jealous of the GUU-5' too, especially working around K loaders and fork lifts so I built my own last year too. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/42803/GUU5P_2_jpg-3193279.JPG Good job, MSgt. That is a sexy GAU/GUU! |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 9:05:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: That is how the M16s were done when we converted them to A2. Broke my heart to stamp out AUTO and engrave BURST and engrave A2 next to M16 on the left side of the mag well. Some of the M16s I had to convert were REALLY early rifles. IIRC, one of the rifles I had to convert to A2 was a 5 digit serial number. It should have been put in a museum because it came brand new out of WRM (War Ready Materials) at base supply. Literally a brand new rifle. We had to cut the barrier bag off it and strip it down and reassemble as an A2. The conversion kits consisted of an A2 upper assembly, A2 stock w/spacer, A2 pistol grip and A2 trigger group. That sounds like exactly what was done when ours were converted. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 10:34:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: The really heartbreaking thing was, all of the slick-side uppers and barrels had to be de-milled. The stocks, handguards and pistol grips got smacked with a ball peen hammer and thrown in the trash. . They didn't have to be, but a lot of units/NCOs get the dumbass notion that everything has to be "demilled" before DRMO. Friend was ordered by his NCOIC to pull out his multitool and rip holes in every panel of GP Medium tents that were being phased out because, "They can't go unless they're unserviceable." Dipshit, being OUT OF SERVICE constitutes non-serviceable. When I was in the Army Guard we salvaged a bunch of A1 upper parts when they upgraded. They weren't even DRMOed, just "going in the dumpster unless anyone wants them." I know people who regularly find Pelican cases and new magazines in dumpsters. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 10:36:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I DID find a grainy photo of the nomenclature
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 10:43:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: What a hunk of junk! Your Unit must hate you! 18Z50….MK18 SOPMOD to rule them all! As I said: Since I wasn't going to be doing anything beyond convoy, route, or perimeter security (Engineer unit), we didn't have rails, NV, or anything else. I got the weapon new, qualified 50/50 up to 300 meters including wearing pro mask. I'll see your Mk 18 and raise you a couple of my toys. If it looks full auto, it is.       
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2024 11:26:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By romad99: Nice. I am a newer SOT, so my F/A game is weak. I’m working on it. Cool. I'm not an SOT. I just have disposable income and a wife who also loves guns. 
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 12:45:15 AM EDT
[#25]
I remember when it was time to turn in our GAU/GUU’s we had to replace all of the pencil barrels with M4 profile barrels before depot would accept them. If I remember right, leadership didn’t like the cost due to the GAU/GUU barrels being quite a bit more expensive than the standard M4 barrel. Only difference I could tell was the GAU/GUU barrels didn’t have the deeper M4 cut feed ramps.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 1:21:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATMLB: I remember when it was time to turn in our GAU/GUU’s we had to replace all of the pencil barrels with M4 profile barrels before depot would accept them. If I remember right, leadership didn’t like the cost due to the GAU/GUU barrels being quite a bit more expensive than the standard M4 barrel. Only difference I could tell was the GAU/GUU barrels didn’t have the deeper M4 cut feed ramps. I actually don't remember what the ramps looked like. I assume M4 or I would probably have noted it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 3:33:59 AM EDT
[#27]
This is the first time I have ever seen the OKT handguards actually used in the wild on an issued rifle.
Kinda cool. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 4:13:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeWilliamson: They didn't have to be, but a lot of units/NCOs get the dumbass notion that everything has to be "demilled" before DRMO. Friend was ordered by his NCOIC to pull out his multitool and rip holes in every panel of GP Medium tents that were being phased out because, "They can't go unless they're unserviceable." Dipshit, being OUT OF SERVICE constitutes non-serviceable. When I was in the Army Guard we salvaged a bunch of A1 upper parts when they upgraded. They weren't even DRMOed, just "going in the dumpster unless anyone wants them." I know people who regularly find Pelican cases and new magazines in dumpsters. Our NCOIC directed and supervised the demil of the parts. And yeah, he was a bit of a dumbass. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 11:07:13 AM EDT
[#29]
I built this .22lr retro for my grandkids (and me) to shoot. It's a CMMG bolt and 16" barrel with a Tony's Custom reverse flash hider. H&R upper and lower receivers with Linemount grip and retro handguard. The stock is aluminum vinyl acetate that I'd picked up somewhere long ago. Not really a retro, but very fun to shoot!
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 11:53:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By okboom: I built this .22lr retro for my grandkids (and me) to shoot. It's a CMMG bolt and 16" barrel with a Tony's Custom reverse flash hider. H&R upper and lower receivers with Linemount grip and retro handguard. The stock is aluminum vinyl acetate that I'd picked up somewhere long ago. Not really a retro, but very fun to shoot! Nice gun. Way back I had one of the aluminum stocks. Would have been 1995 or so. I sold it for $60. Had I kept it... |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 2:27:58 PM EDT
[#31]
I've always liked the GUU-5/P
Here is mine, I want to change out the M4 handguard with a set of 6 hole carbine handguards.  |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 3:07:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: When I was in (Air Force Reserve, Aerial Port Squadron) we first had slabside M16's in the early 2000's. They went back for refurb at some point and came back with A2 uppers and stocks, the same old lowers, with A2 fire controls and auto XX's out and burst added. I was always jealous of the GUU-5' too, especially working around K loaders and fork lifts so I built my own last year too. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/42803/GUU5P_2_jpg-3193279.JPG Nice! It just needs a couple trips down the driveway. 
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Posted: 4/21/2024 7:14:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cycolac: Nice! It just needs a couple trips down the driveway. Lol. As clumsy as I am it'll end up looking like that soon enough without me trying
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 2:35:25 PM EDT
[#34]
USAF Facilities Engineering Team that worked for the joint unit I was in had 20" M16A2s in Baghdad in 2008.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 10:19:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: That is how the M16s were done when we converted them to A2. Broke my heart to stamp out AUTO and engrave BURST and engrave A2 next to M16 on the left side of the mag well. Some of the M16s I had to convert were REALLY early rifles. IIRC, one of the rifles I had to convert to A2 was a 5 digit serial number. It should have been put in a museum because it came brand new out of WRM (War Ready Materials) at base supply. Literally a brand new rifle. We had to cut the barrier bag off it and strip it down and reassemble as an A2. The conversion kits consisted of an A2 upper assembly, A2 stock w/spacer, A2 pistol grip and A2 trigger group. When I first graduated CATM school, I got stationed at Malmstrom AFB in MT and spent probably 6 months straight doing nothing but A2 conversions. The really heartbreaking thing was, all of the slick-side uppers and barrels had to be de-milled. The stocks, handguards and pistol grips got smacked with a ball peen hammer and thrown in the trash. We did save the old chrome non-serrated BCGs and used them in our training rifles, even though the forward assist was useless with the carriers. Wish I could have liberated a few of those uppers and parts. They were beautiful rifles. Funny side-note: there is a converted A2 out there with "BREAST" engraved instead of BURST. One of the knuckleheads in our shop thought he was a funny guy. Last known location was at Malmstrom AFB, so AF guys keep an eye out! EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot about a green 4-digit rifle we had in the Security Forces armory back in the day. It was the only rifle we hadn't converted because it was so cool, so it was on display in the armory. That is, until we had an ORI or UCI inspection and the inspector found it and forced its conversion. THAT was the most heartbreaking conversion. Did the A2 conversation kits lack new buffers?  Of all the things to change out from an original generation rifle the buffer should be high up
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:08:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DrSutton: Did the A2 conversation kits lack new buffers? Of all the things to change out from an original generation rifle the buffer should be high upIf I remember correctly, no new buffer in the kit. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 7:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlaskaJohn]
[#37]
Originally Posted By MikeWilliamson: ... GAU is Gun, Aircraft Unit, because nomenclature and TOE was drawn up for aircraft mounted weapons, and was simply carried over to certain small arms (M16s were still called M16s). GAUs included both security police carbines and some of the very compact aircrew carbines, a new version of which is in issue. Later nomenclature is GUU, for Gun, Utility Unit, not assigned to an aircraft. /P is for Personnel issue. ... |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:42:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KILLERB6]
[#38]
We (Army) had a handful of GAU/GUUs in our armory in Kandahar.
They were SBE (Stay Behind Equipment) and stayed behind (duh!) when units rotated out/in. No one knew where they came from or why they were there and they sat mostly unused except for me: I would take one to the range when we went. I assume the Taliban has them now. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:37:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CATM]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6: We (Army) had a handful of GAU/GUUs in our armory in Kandahar. They were SBE (Stay Behind Equipment) and stayed behind (duh!) when units rotated out/in. No one knew where they came from or why they were there and they sat mostly unused except for me: I would take one to the range when we went. I assume the Taliban has them now. Interesting! I ran the AF Security Forces armory at Kandahar in '09-10 and if I remember correctly, we had zero GAU/GUUs in the inventory there. All our weapons (obviously, other than M9/M249/M240/M203/M2/Mk19) at the time were M4s and I think there was one AF unit there that still had A2s. My guess is maybe they were AF EOD or PJ/TACP assets they were told by CENTAF to leave in place. And I bet you are right. They are probably serving the Taliban now. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:14:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstetz: Good stuff! Thanks for the post and info. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:21:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: Our NCOIC directed and supervised the demil of the parts. And yeah, he was a bit of a dumbass. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CATM: Originally Posted By MikeWilliamson: They didn't have to be, but a lot of units/NCOs get the dumbass notion that everything has to be "demilled" before DRMO. Friend was ordered by his NCOIC to pull out his multitool and rip holes in every panel of GP Medium tents that were being phased out because, "They can't go unless they're unserviceable." Dipshit, being OUT OF SERVICE constitutes non-serviceable. When I was in the Army Guard we salvaged a bunch of A1 upper parts when they upgraded. They weren't even DRMOed, just "going in the dumpster unless anyone wants them." I know people who regularly find Pelican cases and new magazines in dumpsters. Our NCOIC directed and supervised the demil of the parts. And yeah, he was a bit of a dumbass. When I was on active duty at Ft. Hood (early '70s) a couple of us were ordered to throw cases of NIW M-14 mags in the lake. Never thought that they might be useful some time. 
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:35:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela: When I was on active duty at Ft. Hood (early '70s) a couple of us were ordered to throw cases of NIW M-14 mags in the lake. Never thought that they might be useful some time. I have no doubt! I was bullshitting with an old retired GI (probably in his 70's at the time) years ago that told me in the late 60s they had a couple dozen of M1s that Depot told them to dispose of rather than return them. So, they buried them in an 8' hole on the range and filled the hole in. I won't name the base, but every time we did range maintenance I was looking for a small depression in the ground. I don't know if he was full of shit, but it wouldn't have surprised me. Never did locate the burial site, unfortunately... |
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IN, USA
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Posted: Yesterday 11:38:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela: When I was on active duty at Ft. Hood (early '70s) a couple of us were ordered to throw cases of NIW M-14 mags in the lake. Never thought that they might be useful some time. Considering they threw millions of them into the Pacific on the way back from Japan, and again from Korea, because dipshits never learn... |
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