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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 4:48:03 AM EDT
I'm building a Radian Model 1 clone. I have all the necessary parts (Builder kit, BCG, Trigger, etc.) except for the barrel. Radian uses Shaw blanks which they finish in-house. But the problem is that they don't sell those barrels separately.
This is the first attempt at a clone that I'm making. What are the rules around cloning a rifle. Does every part have to be identical to the rifle you are cloning? Or should I just throw in a match-grade Craddock Precision, White Oak Armory, Proof Research, or Compass Lake Douglas barrel and call it a day? |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 6:35:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Just me, but I build them for my satisfaction, not someone else. You can always change it out later if it bothers you.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:48:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KILLERB6]
[#2]
Sometimes it’s extremely difficult (and expensive) if not impossible.
In the case of military clones, there is almost always a well defined configuration of what was issued/authorized. In the case of civilian firearms, where there aren’t really any “rules”, does it really matter? Any given configuration is determined by the manufacturer and can be (extensively) modified by the end user; military…not so much. As long as you know the difference and are good with it. I am almost (need the correct switch for my SF and to paint it) finished with a clone of my issued Mk12 Mod H. I took the easy way out and got a complete PRI gun…so the lower (which is never correct), my RMR mount and the bipod are not correct. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:38:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Oldgold: Just me, but I build them for my satisfaction, not someone else. You can always change it out later if it bothers you. Some would say 100%, Sticklers. Some would say get it as close as feasible. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 11:48:23 AM EDT
[#4]
If it isn't 100% clone correct a certain sub forum will make fun of you.
"OMG HIS PINS ARENT DIMPLED!!!111" Post it any ways for the lulz.  I say screw it though, if it's close enough and scratches the itch. Its worth it. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:19:19 PM EDT
[#5]
I like inspired builds, instead of direct clones. I always liked the block 1 uppers with the kac rail and heavy barrels, but I never liked the lowers. So I have a block 1 upper, with a ambi lower and magpul ubr stock.
The truth is outside of this forum, very little people would really know what clone builds are. I suppose in a resale situation, you'd find it very difficult to find a customer willing to pay the original price of a rare item. For example, most people probably couldn't tell a KAC rail vs a generic one. So spending 10x the amount for something would really mean nothing when both does the same for them. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 12:46:00 PM EDT
[#6]
That’s not a clone; it’s just a parts gun of an existing factory rifle configuration you can buy. Cloning is for copying the configuration of things in military and media type use.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 2:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: That’s not a clone; it’s just a parts gun of an existing factory rifle configuration you can buy. Cloning is for copying the configuration of things in military and media type use. That's a good catch. The OP is saying he's building a clone of a Radian Model 1, whatever the heck that is. I guess he's building a clone of a configuration he seen on sale before and no longer for sale? Either way on this forum "clone" is really a duplicate of an issued firearm to a .gov agency. Also, build whatever you want and like. Don't base it off what someone told you on here. People might not know your physical limitations or style of shooting and just putting pieces together might make things uncomfortable for you and/or aesthetically not pleasing. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 5:25:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#8]
I’ve never heard of “cloning” a currently produced rifle from some rando manufacturer. I’m not even sure what the point would be when you can just go buy one. Theres literally no difficulty there at all. I’d be shocked if anyone aside from you would bother to care.
I’m not intending to be mean, but people clone military issued weapons, or .gov issued weapons, or occasionally popular movie/tv show weapons. They don’t “clone” random guns that are currently available at any online gun dealer. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 5:29:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: That's a good catch. The OP is saying he's building a clone of a Radian Model 1, whatever the heck that is. I guess he's building a clone of a configuration he seen on sale before and no longer for sale? Either way on this forum "clone" is really a duplicate of an issued firearm to a .gov agency. Also, build whatever you want and like. Don't base it off what someone told you on here. People might not know your physical limitations or style of shooting and just putting pieces together might make things uncomfortable for you and/or aesthetically not pleasing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: That’s not a clone; it’s just a parts gun of an existing factory rifle configuration you can buy. Cloning is for copying the configuration of things in military and media type use. That's a good catch. The OP is saying he's building a clone of a Radian Model 1, whatever the heck that is. I guess he's building a clone of a configuration he seen on sale before and no longer for sale? Either way on this forum "clone" is really a duplicate of an issued firearm to a .gov agency. Also, build whatever you want and like. Don't base it off what someone told you on here. People might not know your physical limitations or style of shooting and just putting pieces together might make things uncomfortable for you and/or aesthetically not pleasing. They’re currently available and in stock at a number of different online retailers. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021825737?pid=885571 |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: They’re currently available and in stock at a number of different online retailers. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021825737?pid=885571 That is strange. Only thing I can think of is perhaps the OP doesn’t want to spend the money. I would advise you save up for it. If you can save 90% of it and finance the rest that be good too but just save up or you’ll spend way more in the long run. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:53:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: That is strange. Only thing I can think of is perhaps the OP doesn’t want to spend the money. I would advise you save up for it. If you can save 90% of it and finance the rest that be good too but just save up or you’ll spend way more in the long run. Yeah my choice was between getting a Radian Model 1 and building a clone of the Noveske Recon, or getting the Noveske Recon and building a clone of the model 1. I chose to buy the Noveske Recon, so I decided to build a clone of the Model 1 but didn't realize that they didn't sell the barrel for it. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:56:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: That is strange. Only thing I can think of is perhaps the OP doesn’t want to spend the money. I would advise you save up for it. If you can save 90% of it and finance the rest that be good too but just save up or you’ll spend way more in the long run. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By WUPHF: They’re currently available and in stock at a number of different online retailers. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021825737?pid=885571 That is strange. Only thing I can think of is perhaps the OP doesn’t want to spend the money. I would advise you save up for it. If you can save 90% of it and finance the rest that be good too but just save up or you’ll spend way more in the long run. He’s talking about throwing a $500+ barrel in his build, which has me questioning if he’s actually worried about budget. That just makes the topic all the more confusing. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 8:09:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: He’s talking about throwing a $500+ barrel in his build, which has me questioning if he’s actually worried about budget. That just makes the topic all the more confusing. Budget is not that much of an issue, I just thought it would be fun to build a clone. Priced out with the parts that I have, my build is only $300 cheaper than buying a Model 1 which is not a big deal. I just forgot to check whether Radian offers their barrels on their site. I think I'll just buy a Model 1 and save my builder kit for my 6mm ARC build. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:08:45 PM EDT
[#14]
It just seems ridiculous to read you calling that a clone. It’s not.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:10:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: It just seems ridiculous to read you calling that a clone. It’s not. Yeah well now I know what a clone is and I won't call it that anymore. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 10:54:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Some men just like to watch the world burn
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:21:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LilGucci: Yeah well now I know what a clone is and I won't call it that anymore. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LilGucci: Originally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: It just seems ridiculous to read you calling that a clone. It’s not. Yeah well now I know what a clone is and I won't call it that anymore. I’m assuming you’re a grown man, so you can call it whatever you like. You don’t need the validation from anyone on the internet, esp for the cloners. They are a special “‘-tism” that is sad and funny at the same time. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:39:06 AM EDT
[#18]
There are some on here and reddit that will search for every single part down to the ejection port rod C-clip to have the cLoNe cUrReKt version. For what? Internet glory points.
I wanted some clone-ish rifles of what I carried in the army, but cookie cutter clones are dumb. All my other rifles have OD Green furniture, so my clone bones have ODG as well. I'm removing the 14.5" with pinned A2X flash hider barrels on several and replacing them with 16"s cut to 14.7 or whatever and pinning a standard A2 or A1 because I have a rotex V now. The autist screams will be glorious, and heard at full volume, not drowned out by muzzle blast because I have a sweet silencer on it. Insert the meme of Ben Stiller showing all the different emotions in Zoolander, but its all the exact same facial expression. That's cloning. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:06:49 PM EDT
[#19]
I think the point that’s trying to be made here is that it doesn’t matter and no one is going to go full cloner rage over what OP’s describing.
You want a Radian Mod 1? Buy one. You want to build something similar, then do that. There is no “standard” because nobody is going to care about a parts gun that’s built out in a similar fashion to some random factory rifle. Hell, I really like Noveske receivers and handguards. I’m not the biggest fan of their barrels. I’ve got a lot of builds that look similar to factory Noveske guns due to the receivers, but they aren't identical and neither I, nor anyone else gives a shit. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:28:27 PM EDT
[#20]
As a full blown clone autist even I’m flabbergasted.
OP has achieved a new power level. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:49:18 PM EDT
[#21]
I guess I never considered such to be clones. I wouldn’t worry about it.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: I think the point that’s trying to be made here is that it doesn’t matter and no one is going to go full cloner rage over what OP’s describing. You want a Radian Mod 1? Buy one. You want to build something similar, then do that. There is no “standard” because nobody is going to care about a parts gun that’s built out in a similar fashion to some random factory rifle. Hell, I really like Noveske receivers and handguards. I’m not the biggest fan of their barrels. I’ve got a lot of builds that look similar to factory Noveske guns due to the receivers, but they aren't identical and neither I, nor anyone else gives a shit. I'm having a very hard time understanding what the OP is trying to do but from what I can gather he's trying to take a Noveske rifle, and make it look like a Radian Mod 1. Again I'm not exactly sure what that means but perhaps he feels he wants a Noveske brand name but like the aesthetics of the Radian Mod 1? It's very hard to tell what he is trying to accomplish but it sounds like it is something he's going to have to do himself and look into how to make that happen. It sounds to me like he likes the Noveske brand and I do know Noveske sells their matching lower and upper combos that he could take as a base for his Radian Mod 1 "clone." From there, I have no idea what parts to buy but I do know Radian is open enough to sell their individual parts so he could get the barrel, handguard, and lower furniture. That would save him the hassle of buying a complete rifle then spending more on top of it to acquire his Radian parts. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:12:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: I'm having a very hard time understanding what the OP is trying to do but from what I can gather he's trying to take a Noveske rifle, and make it look like a Radian Mod 1. Again I'm not exactly sure what that means but perhaps he feels he wants a Noveske brand name but like the aesthetics of the Radian Mod 1? It's very hard to tell what he is trying to accomplish but it sounds like it is something he's going to have to do himself and look into how to make that happen. It sounds to me like he likes the Noveske brand and I do know Noveske sells their matching lower and upper combos that he could take as a base for his Radian Mod 1 "clone." From there, I have no idea what parts to buy but I do know Radian is open enough to sell their individual parts so he could get the barrel, handguard, and lower furniture. That would save him the hassle of buying a complete rifle then spending more on top of it to acquire his Radian parts. Radian does not sell the barrels separately. Per the OP here. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:33:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Radian does not sell the barrels separately. Per the OP here. Perhaps he was on the right track with getting a Noveske complete and just swapping it out to parts that he likes of the Radian. I guess what the OP is trying to ask is if it is okay to buy one rifle and make it look like another? I don't see why someone couldn't do that but I think as said you might be spending more money in the long run and not necessarily "better" pieces are being put in. I guess people don't "clone" another company's rifle but people would buy accessories all the time for their rifle as they see fit so it would be perfectly acceptable to change out the appearance of your rifle to your liking which in this case is the Radian one. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:52:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: I like inspired builds, instead of direct clones. I always liked the block 1 uppers with the kac rail and heavy barrels, but I never liked the lowers. So I have a block 1 upper, with a ambi lower and magpul ubr stock. The truth is outside of this forum, very little people would really know what clone builds are. I suppose in a resale situation, you'd find it very difficult to find a customer willing to pay the original price of a rare item. For example, most people probably couldn't tell a KAC rail vs a generic one. So spending 10x the amount for something would really mean nothing when both does the same for them. I'm in the camp of either get a real one (like a 12ga. US issued trench gun) or stop somewhere at inspired. That's the attraction of surplus & wartime bring back guns, they were actually issued or captured. Unless I have a great next couple of years, I'm not getting a real Colt M16 lower for a 9mm DOE build. But I'll get one if PSA offers it and will want a threaded barrel (not 'authentic') so I can use my can on it. Years ago I happened across a factory bayonet mount for a Remington 870. It has the bead sight vs. the rifle sight on it. So I started to build a US Air Force clone as they used the bead sights. After spending too much time researching it, I figured an inspired build was good enough for me. So I bought a cheap ($150) Remington Wingmaster and fitted the extension to it. I picked up a cheap LE wood set and it is close enough for me. On the other hand, 20 years ago you could buy 20" A1 uppers really cheap as everyone wanted a M4 clone, not a M16A1. I got an A1 upper and stuck it on a Cavalry Arms polymer lower. It was my new meets old build and started my love of lightweight builds. I eventually stuck a 16" pencil flat top upper on it to save even more weight and regrettably sold the A1 upper. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 3:01:45 PM EDT
[#26]
You will be tarred and feathered in some sections of the interwebs if you declare your rifle is "insert name of firearm here" without it being clone correct.
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Posted: 4/30/2024 3:10:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Perhaps he was on the right track with getting a Noveske complete and just swapping it out to parts that he likes of the Radian. I guess what the OP is trying to ask is if it is okay to buy one rifle and make it look like another? I don't see why someone couldn't do that but I think as said you might be spending more money in the long run and not necessarily "better" pieces are being put in. I guess people don't "clone" another company's rifle but people would buy accessories all the time for their rifle as they see fit so it would be perfectly acceptable to change out the appearance of your rifle to your liking which in this case is the Radian one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: Radian does not sell the barrels separately. Per the OP here. Perhaps he was on the right track with getting a Noveske complete and just swapping it out to parts that he likes of the Radian. I guess what the OP is trying to ask is if it is okay to buy one rifle and make it look like another? I don't see why someone couldn't do that but I think as said you might be spending more money in the long run and not necessarily "better" pieces are being put in. I guess people don't "clone" another company's rifle but people would buy accessories all the time for their rifle as they see fit so it would be perfectly acceptable to change out the appearance of your rifle to your liking which in this case is the Radian one. I haven’t seen the OP mention anything about Noveske (in relation to the Radian build). It sounds like he has Radian receivers and a handguard, plus all or most of the small parts. He just can’t get the Radian barrel. He’s essentially trying to build a complete Radian rifle by buying all of the components separately and assembling it himself. For what reason, I’m not sure. Once again, it’s not going to matter nor will anyone care if he does or does not have a Radian barrel in the thing. I’m still confused as to why you’d try to build a complete Radian rifle instead of just buying one completed from the factory if that is what you wanted, but do whatever makes you happy, OP. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 4:01:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: I haven't seen the OP mention anything about Noveske. It sounds like he has Radian receivers and a handguard, plus all or most of the small parts. He just can't get the Radian barrel. He's essentially trying to build a complete Radian rifle by buying all of the components separately and assembling it himself. For what reason, I'm not sure. Once again, it's not going to matter nor will anyone care if he does or does not have a Radian barrel in the thing. I'm still confused as to why you'd try to build a complete Radian rifle instead of just buying one completed from the factory if that is what you wanted, but do whatever makes you happy, OP. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Originally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: Radian does not sell the barrels separately. Per the OP here. Perhaps he was on the right track with getting a Noveske complete and just swapping it out to parts that he likes of the Radian. I guess what the OP is trying to ask is if it is okay to buy one rifle and make it look like another? I don't see why someone couldn't do that but I think as said you might be spending more money in the long run and not necessarily "better" pieces are being put in. I guess people don't "clone" another company's rifle but people would buy accessories all the time for their rifle as they see fit so it would be perfectly acceptable to change out the appearance of your rifle to your liking which in this case is the Radian one. I haven't seen the OP mention anything about Noveske. It sounds like he has Radian receivers and a handguard, plus all or most of the small parts. He just can't get the Radian barrel. He's essentially trying to build a complete Radian rifle by buying all of the components separately and assembling it himself. For what reason, I'm not sure. Once again, it's not going to matter nor will anyone care if he does or does not have a Radian barrel in the thing. I'm still confused as to why you'd try to build a complete Radian rifle instead of just buying one completed from the factory if that is what you wanted, but do whatever makes you happy, OP. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:22:26 PM EDT
[#29]
 Attached FileDepends on the clone, but a lot of retro accessories are ancient these days so I blend modern and old. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:42:57 PM EDT
[#30]
My mk12 MOD 0 is not correct.
But a quick break down from memory for prices goes. A.R.M.S. NLS rings - Free A.R.M.S. TRC - Free A.R.M.S. 40 rear site wingless $120 A.R.M.S. non NSN #17 $70 A.R.M.S. #38 PEQ $600 PRI welded latch gas buster- Free Leoupold 2.5-9 scope, semi correct $1100 PRI Gen 3 handguard $340 Tactical Machining lower, not correct $80 TM upper, not correct, $60 CLE Douglas barrel $500 Colt N1 stock - Free Non engraved PRI pic rail sections $130. Maybe way off, made an offer to a guy with some. PRI engraved FSP - $160, still had to buy a second PRI site and replace it with the engraved version. So theres another $70 or who knows. Point is it goes on and on. It's not perfect, it's very expensive and..yeah that's about it. But fun to try and source parts. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 6:05:16 PM EDT
[#31]
a long time ago it took me almost a year to put together a grey Colt 601 clone. it had all the grey parts I can find. Even had the dimpled take down pin.
it was fun being on the hunt. but it took to long and got expensive. I wouldn't even think about doing the same 601 build today. the cost for those vintage parts would be outrageous. if you are doing a "modern" clone of something current. sure. have fun on the hunt. it will be really satisfying to finish it. |
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