reading about grease vs oil from the Cherry Balmz guy sold me on using grease. he knows what he is talking about.

https://www.cherrybalmz.com/educate-yourself-the-science

grease stays put, tends to push dirt and debris to the side, and you use it instead of oil because an AR15 is not a closed system like a crankcase.

he says the trick is to not use grease that is too thick. Cherry Balmz is a thin grease, NGLI 0. consistency similar to apple sauce or mustard.

I don't have any laying around so I experimented with the next best thing, RIG Gun Grease which is also NGLI 0.

after only 10 or 20 rounds that little amount of fouling caused a sluggish bolt carrier and the bolt all but seized up.

that leads to a few questions.

1. did I do something wrong? should you use grease on the bolt carrier but oil on the bolt?

2. how could such little fouling make such a big difference, when obviously you can't use grease if it all does that. or even sell it.

3. other people that use grease. what do they use, how do they apply it, what results do they get?

Lol. I thought the other thread was kidding.

which other thread?

If it rotates oil it.  If it slides grease it.

I switch to the balmz from lubriplate last year.  Its a lot more expensive though.

Ewl for oil.

do you put grease inside the bolt carrier too? (for the bolt)

The binding up seems odd.

I've been using Slip 2000 EWL for quite awhile, year round (I live up north where it gets cold) and run suppressed 100% of the time and have not had any issues.  I do clean my gun and re grease the bolt and any contact surfaces in the upper every 100 rounds or so.  I use oil in the lower and at pivot points.

After you cleaned up your gun, and lubricated it the way you traditionally have, did it run okay?

Curious to know if something else happened to it and the switch to grease was coincidental.

Where did you find that the RIG grease has a NGLI 0 rating?  I thought it was on the thicker side.  The Cherry balms like the Slip grease is very thin.

I don't remember where I got that from. the MSDS says viscosity is NA and I called them up on the phone, they don't know either.

yes I cleaned it all out and lubed with oil, ran normally. just tried grease to see how it goes. it didn't go very well. with oil an AR should run fine out to 1000 rds before it needs cleaning, one guy experimenting got 2000 or 2400 rounds with the right oil and the right buffer weight. grease needs to compare to that.

•These photos were taken in 2005 by @MisterPX of his  AR-15 after 15,000 rounds of Wolf ammunition. He had lubed it every 1000 rounds but not cleaned it. 

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>"lubed with miltec every 700-1000 roundsish."

MILITEC

And based on who you ask, militec is snake oil  

Find a product, try it out.   If it works for you, use it.   If it doesn't, try something else.  

I’m pretty sure that RIG grease is actual grease as in thick grease.  That is not going to do well on a BCG unless you only put a light amount on the contact areas.  Who knows, maybe you clogged up the gas key with it.

Wow!  Most AK’s are cleaner than that!

Not the Filthy 14.

LINK HERE

Oil for me only. I don't grease my guns. Seen some guns fail to run because grease was used. I don't see a need for grease if you regularly clean your guns.

I asked Cherry Balmz what their NGLI number is. they were very helpful and told me all of them.

Black Rifle Balm, 0
Bolt Balm, 0
Field Balm, 00
Rimfire Remedy, 00
Winter Balm, 000

other examples:

RIG Gun Grease- NGLI 0
Mobil 1- NGLI 1
axle grease- NGLI 2

consistency:

000- ketchup
00- applesauce
0- mustard
1- tomato paste
2- peanut butter
3- Crisco
4- frozen yogurt
5- Cheese Whiz
6- cheddar cheese spread

another description:

grade, consistency, application
000, Fluid, Enclosed gears
00, Semifluid, Enclosed gears
0, Very soft, Centralized lubrication systems
1, Soft, Centralized lubrication systems and low temperatures
2, Medium soft, Most common grade for all rolling element bearing types
3, Medium, High-speed rolling element bearings. Typically ball bearings.
4, Stiff, Very high speed and low load
5, Very stiff, Low-speed journal bearings
6, Block, Slow-moving journal bearings

I've been using oil and grease on all my guns.

For the oil, its synthetic motor oil (5w20 or 5w30) and for grease it's SLIP 2000 EWG (good for -100 to +750 F).

 

 





 

RIG=Rust Inhibiting Grease. RIG is a long-term storage protective grease, NOT a lubricating grease. It works great for its intended purpose.
Jon

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Is miltec RED?

Ive seen all the horrible garbage things marketed as gun lubes do their best to make guns fail for years.

If you want to lube your AR with the best lube, use the current mil-spec lube developed to lubricate… Guns.

The military has astronomical testing and procurement funds for things like that.  Versus some idiots repackaging grease and misspelling the name and making ridiculous nonsensical  claims of what it does.

@Foxtrot08

For intense friction and high-speed applications, an oil is typically the best choice. But other components that endure heavy loads or move vertically typically require a grease.

What are the loads on a bolt carrier, and at what speeds do they operate?

Cam pin - high speed

Carrier rails - high speed

Bolt - high speed

The problem with grease is that is does stay put.  Any particulate matter caught in the grease sames right where it is rubbing ans wearing away at the metal.

Oil flows away, yes, but in doing so it carries away any particulate mater trapped in it.

Most people think "more = better".  No, the right type of lubricant in the right amount (and a little goes a long way), it the right place is best.

Firearm lubrication, specifically the AR15, is really a disaster of a lubrication system.

1.  It’s an open air system.
2.  It dumps contamination back into it.
3.  It’s a once through system.
4.  It’s an inconsistent usage. (Meaning, not always operating.)


So… what does that mean, grease vs oil?

It means it doesn’t matter.  Technically, if I were to transplant those same characteristics over to some sort of machine like an open gear box.  I would recommend a spray grease or some sort of misting system. However constant lubrication is not realistic here, because it’s a firearm.

A light grease such as a spray grease absolutely works.  An 0 or 00 grease, maybe an NLGI 1 for something a little more solid at times.

The flip side - a manually applied oil, also works.  We see this same concept in industrial gear boxes as mist systems.  

A manually applied grease also works just fine, as all a manually applied grease vs a spray grease basically is: One is formulated to be in an aerosol, one is not.  


The answer of grease vs oil is: Yes.

The soap of the grease isn’t doing much work. Not are the EP additives.  You’re still relying on the base oil’s film strength to hold the soap in place. No where in a firearm has enough extreme pressure to utilize greases EP additives.

Usage of a motor oil, you’re relying on the base oil. Engine oil additives really don’t activate till around 150-160f.  So you’re not going to get the plating affect of the anti wear.  You’re going to get some polymer functions to “cling” but really not much.  Oils will have a better detergent package to “clean” your gun. But that’s about it.

In terms of viscosity and film strength:

Lubriplate SFL-0 used an ISO 46 base oil, which converts to a low SAE 20w

Assuming you’re using a full synthetic 10w30 which seems popular with many online… you’re really comparing a 10w base oil vs a 20w base oil.  At, ambient temperatures.

It comes down to personal preference there.


If you’re not going to use a firearm a lot, grease is the way to go. As even if the oil drops out, the soap and additives will help protect from corrosion.

If you’re going to use a firearm a lot, personal preference is to oil.  And re-oil liberally.  As it will help clean itself.

There’s an argument for pinch points on Sigs and 1911s.. sure, use a grease. But really they’re more of a way lube application than grease. All you really want is something thicker for the boundary lubrication.


But as long as you’re using a lubricant, that’s step 1.  The fundamentals of lubrication teach us, you can either use a little of the proper thing, or a lot of the wrong thing.  

This isn’t a super delicate Giraid fluid bearing type technology.  


Sorry for the non answer. Just clean and lube your guns occasionally.

Fox
STLE-CLS

I have some cherry balmz and sometimes use it.

But it's overpriced and isn't that different from other cheaper available greases.

If you plan on getting dirty that grease is going to pick up sand, dirt, debris, way worse than any oil. But if you're just plinking at the range that doesn't really matter.

I have an AK that a decade ago I tried every type of over the counter lubrication I could find, followed up by a handful of dirt. All of the greases jammed before any of the oils.

If putting grease on your gun slowed it down enough to stop working than your gun is either under gassed or you used some crazy thick grease in too low of a temp. Battleborn grease is really reliable in all temps. One tub of that stuff will last most people the rest of their shooting lives.

Put a med thin layer on everything inside the gun, put a REALLY thin layer on the firing pin.

I run grease the key is light coat basically just a film. You don’t want it goopy. Just enough to provide lubrication. The biggest benefit of a light coat of grease imo is it won’t run and will be where you applied it later for a rifle that’s going to be stored.

I tend to run Mobil 1 synthetic bearing grease the red stuff in the blue and silver can.

You just need to make sure that whatever lube you use is going to provide adequate performance in your conditions. That includes the internal and external temperatures. Most gun lube is just overpriced lube. You can make your own if you do a little research. In colder temps you might want to use oil and in hotter temps you might want grease. Oil runs out of the gun faster in the heat and grease will stay put longer. Oil will work better in the cold vs grease.

Oil on things that move, Grease on threads. Make sure to watch a video

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Duplicate answer
Jon

I’ve been known to use a hose sprayer.

This.

might be primer sealant.

Anybody running John Deere Corn Head Grease AN102562?

NGLI #0 polyurea thickened EP grease. Seems like a good match to gun grease.

Once again. Food safe, no odor, stays put. Used it for years. And oil also if thats your thing. Attached File
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I cannot read the label in the picture but Super Lube makes an NSF grease which works great and since its NSF you at least don't have to worry about that part of the stuff blowing around.

Works great coating the innards of suppressors too.

Dab of grease

Drops of oil  on the grease.

I use the same stuff the red/pink color makes it easy to know when I need to wipe it off and replace with fresh.  I tend to refresh it when it turns to a black sludge and all I do is wipe it off then reapply.

Did you do some thing wrong? YES. RIG stands for Rust Inhibiting Grease. It is a preservative grease akin to cosmoline. It is NOT intended for an actual lubricating grease. Clean all of the RIG out and use high pressure, high temperature automotive wheel bearing grease. You''ll be fine.