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Posted: 11/3/2013 7:01:47 PM EDT
I just got an Excalibur Matrix 380 for myself as an early Christmas present. I live in a state that still has their head up their ass when it comes to allowing crossbows for all archers. I do have a signed statement from my physician that states I'm eligible to use one and am legal with the state. The GF's stepdad has been one of the biggest advocates for them but his shorts got freezer burnt when he found out that I got an exemption .. after all it's bullshit in his opinion that a 34 yr old is using an xbow ...
How do you all deal with the mind boggling dipshittery when it comes to the old wives tales about crossbows (ie kill deer at 100-200 yards and that it is unsporting)?? |
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take him shooting with it. problem solved
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Just put me down for a CoC violation and I won't type what I'm really thinking. Save everyone some time
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Originally Posted By ds762:
That's just it .. He believes in them (and just bought one too) .. But by god they are for the over 60 club and the "disabled" .. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ds762:
Originally Posted By williewvr:
take him shooting with it. problem solved That's just it .. He believes in them (and just bought one too) .. But by god they are for the over 60 club and the "disabled" .. ...But he's only partially right...it's for all those 55 years of age and older and the disabled. Sounds like you got your panties in a knot girly boy! Young whipper-snappers like you should be pulling a real bow until you've 'manned-up' enough like us gray beards!! |
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...but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend...J. R. R. Tolkien
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There is some validity there. The reason we get such a long season to bowhunt is because bowhunting is much, much more difficult than gun hunting. Some of the factors that make bowhunting so difficult do not exist with a crossbow. Therefor I don't think any state should open up bow season to crossbows. They should have their own season that is more condensed.
If a doctor signs off on it, however, that's a moot point. if your doctor thinks shooting a bow isn't a good idea then it isn't and I have no problem with you shooting an x-bow. |
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Sounds like mr grumpy is mad that you might get more deer than him,
I am looking to head down this myself, my shoulder has not gotten 100% stable since I dislocated it in August and I think I am going to ask my Dr. for the disabled crossbow permit. I am only 39 and while I skipped surgery its hurting like a bitch right now as I type this. Sucks because I was really looking to bowhunt this season, but you have to make the best you can. |
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believe it or not, X-bows are considered the same as traditional and compound bows here in NJ
amazing considering our asinine firearm laws...... anyway, i'm 43, gray haired as shit, but prefer using a compound bow over a crossbow as long as i'm still able to do so. i have many friends (both older and younger) that prefer crossbows. to each their own (within the law). |
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A solid point in favor of crossbows over other types of bows is that your chance of wounding an animal is much less. Compound shooters won't agree, because they don't want to face that fact. It's easier to deliver a bolt on target with a crossbow than a compound for the vast majority of hunters. Doesn't matter how much you practice, nerves and excitement play havor with the mechanics involved in shooting a compound for most. I can hit a tennis ball out to 60 yards if I know the yardage with my Scorpyd crosssbow from a sitting position. Doesn't make it a good idea to shoot at a deer that far away. I keep my shots under 40 yards and still need to know the yardage within less than five yards to be sure of my shot at nearly 400 FPS. Not a lof of advantage over a compound except in the degree of consistency I can make a killing shot. Yes I'm old, so I guess it's OK for those who think the devil inspired crossbow use. I'm 65 and have been hunting deer starting with a recurve over 50 years ago.
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Texas Parks and Wildlife did a study for several years, running simultaneous crossbow and regular bow hunts at Richland Creek WMA, and tracking success statistics.
Interestingly they found that crossbow shooters had almost exactly the same success rates as compound shooters, and that was part of the justification for Texas allowing crossbows during archery season. It actually surprises me quite a bit, as the crossbow seems easier to shoot to me, and you can also shoot it with less movement when game is in front of you (versus having to move enough to draw a bow.) But maybe in the end having similar range limitations outweighs the other differences? Does anyone know if other states have seen archery success rates skyrocket after they start allowing crossbows? Anyway, I used to hunt a lot with a compound (and killed a few deer), but quit quite a few years ago when I got too busy to have time to practice regularly. With the crossbow, I can pick it up, and shoot just fine with it without having to practice almost every day, and that is letting me hunt some during archery season again, which I definitely appreciate. |
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There is a widely held belief among bowhunters, gun hunters, and the general public that crossbows make it easy to kill a deer. A crossbow doesn't make it easy. I started bowhunting in 1964 with a recurve, went to a compound bow when they first came out, and switched to a crossbow around 1974. For me, hunting responsibly with a crossbow means not taking a shot past 45 yards, even though the crossbow I have will group better than some AR 15's at a hundred yards. I limit my shots to 40 yards and under when hunting. It's a different ballgame in the woods than at the range when it comes to delivering a bolt on target for a number of reasons. There are several reasons I prefer a crossbow over compound bow use. The first is that I'm 66 years old, enough said. The most important reason to me is that if shots are held to a reasonable range the hunter is far less likely to make a bad hit on an animal. It's simply easier to shoot well than with a compound bow. If you like to hunt on the ground without a tent style blind it's easier to get off a shot without detection due to often being able to get in position for the shot before the animal gets to where you'll take the shot, and nearly no movement required to take the shot. I love hunting with a crossbow, and the dozens of good bucks hanging on my walls came from being able to spend a whole lot of time in the woods every fall for over 50 years, 33 of them with a crossbow.
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I explain that I switched to a crossbow because it lessens the chance of making a bad hit on a deer. I personally won't take shot over 45 yards in keeping with my desire not to wound an animal. Target range accuracy and hunting accuracy are not the same.
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I just stumbled on to this forum within a forum, so to speak.
I was a diehard archery Elk hunter for years. I took a couple, not a lot, but had great fun with the compound bow. Fast forward to a duty related injury to the right shoulder and archery with a compound went into the poreclain bowl. Doc says she can give me a disability waiver for that, with no problem. Employer says, "wait a minute, you can get a disability waiver yet your still working, no so fast". Employer says, " If you have a disability waiver, we can't have you on the job". (Another story for another time) So, I bought one anyway, and use it in the short-range weapons seasons we ha e here in Idaho. 40 yards is my Max distance, just like my compound was. Far more accurate than the compound, but same distance= less chance of wounding and losing the critter. Is it quieter than a compound, no it is not. Is it a bit intimidating to use, yes, but if your careful, they work fine. I currently have a Barnett Jaguar, but am going to upgrade to a Tenpoint RDP I think it is- Anyone use those have an opinion? |
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Hunted with an x-bow the first time this year after running into issues with my compound bow.
I'll say this(just as I suspected)... it eliminates all but two of the biggest variables you run into with bow hunting vs. gun, but those two variables are quite significant. Without getting within 50 yards of a deer, which is quite difficult, you aren't getting much of a good shooting opportunity, and it has to be a clear shooting lane. To me this seems like a crossbow is damn near as good as a gun as most areas I hunt are very small clearings(mostly patches of mature oak or pine in areas of otherwise extremely thick undergrowth and brush). For most hunters though the limited range would be a much bigger factor. Still, having to find a perfectly clear lane vs. being able to punch through light brush is a big limitation. Hunting from a tree there isn't a huge advantage one way or the other but I did miss out on a very nice 8 this year because I wasn't able to stand and turn in time to make the shot where I could have just shot it left handed vs. right with a crossbow(buck was only 15 yards away). If you hunt from the ground it is a significant advantage. I went out last week and tucked into a deadfall with my wife's crossbow. Had the bow shouldered at low ready sitting on a fallen limb in front of me. If a deer had walked out all I would have had to do was raise the front of the bow 12" to take a shot vs standing and drawing down. Since I hunt a lot of mornings on public land without the chance to set a stand this is a pretty major advantage but for guys hunting fully enclosed ground blinds or from a stand, the advantage is still there but it isn't so drastic. This is assuming you take a lot of time in the off season to shoot your vertical bow so all those other factors that come in to play regarding the actual shot itself are limited. That's probably the biggest advantage at the end of the day... taking the x-bow out for a couple of shots to sight it in before the start of the season vs. having to practice for a few months over some to be proficient with a vertical bow. End of the day they should be legal with a doctors note for the duration of bow season, they should have their own season though and season lengths should be adjusted to achieve the desired deer kill numbers. That's just my opinion but at the end of the day I don't really give a shit enough to campaign on it one way or the other. |
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Originally Posted By ds762:
How do you all deal with the mind boggling dipshittery when it comes to the old wives tales about crossbows (ie kill deer at 100-200 yards and that it is unsporting)?? View Quote LostWife helps out for the practice. Maybe this year will bring enough recovery I can do it myself, but it has been long enough I have doubts. I won't give up on it though. |
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Where do I start? I have seen vertical archers disparage crossbow hunters for years. "Crossguns" have the same limitations as any archer and that is limited range. Last year I shot a buck at 55 yards and it ran 10 yards and flopped over, although most of my shots have been under 30 yards. I use an Excalibur micro recurve crossbow with no cams, cables, or pulleys. I would say that my recurve crossbow that uses only limbs and a bowstring is true to the spirit of the bow.
I recently examined a modern compound at my club and it looked like something out of Mad Max. A collection of weird shaped cams, pulleys, cables and a counterweights and lighted sight pins. Oh and of course the mechanical release. Kind of like a trigger. One of my buddies remarked that when compounds first came on the scene, traditional archers were pissed because every Tom, Dick, and Harry could easily pull back a compound due to the reduced let off. I believe that crossbows get more people out in the woods hunting, and thats a good thing. In my state, there is a single archery season and the number of vertical bowhunters is dropping every year. More and more people are using crossbows year after year. |
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Originally Posted By Arty8:
Where do I start? I have seen vertical archers disparage crossbow hunters for years. "Crossguns" have the same limitations as any archer and that is limited range. Last year I shot a buck at 55 yards and it ran 10 yards and flopped over, although most of my shots have been under 30 yards. I use an Excalibur micro recurve crossbow with no cams, cables, or pulleys. I would say that my recurve crossbow that uses only limbs and a bowstring is true to the spirit of the bow. I recently examined a modern compound at my club and it looked like something out of Mad Max. A collection of weird shaped cams, pulleys, cables and a counterweights and lighted sight pins. Oh and of course the mechanical release. Kind of like a trigger. One of my buddies remarked that when compounds first came on the scene, traditional archers were pissed because every Tom, Dick, and Harry could easily pull back a compound due to the reduced let off. I believe that crossbows get more people out in the woods hunting, and thats a good thing. In my state, there is a single archery season and the number of vertical bowhunters is dropping every year. More and more people are using crossbows year after year. View Quote When I hunt with a crossbow I can literally shoot 360 degrees without even standing if the tree isn't too wide. With a bow I'm limited to 8 oclock to 11 oclock, maybe 12 if the tree leans away, before I have to stand up and reposition. Modern compound bows might look crazy but over the past decade bow development has suffered from ever diminishing returns. They have become a little quieter and faster, and saw a bump in weight savings when carbon risers came out, but a 10 year old bow or a modern bow? I'm still going to be suffering the same limitations. Cams were a big improvement, yes, as were trigger releases, but beyond that there hasn't been much. There's no way one that has experience in both would argue that they have the 'same' limitations unless your point is that there is some overlap, which there is, but it's limited to range and a clear shooting lane. That and follow up shots are much easier with a vertical bow which is a comforting thought, though I've never personally had a deer give me a chance to get a second arrow in it. Looking back on all of my kills and encounters, I'd have at least(if not more) twice as many deer down during bow season than I do now had I been hunting with a crossbow. Between getting busted drawing down or never getting a chance to draw down I've watched many a nice buck or fat doe hop off never to be seen again I'm not against crossbows by any means but having hunted with both I know firsthand that crossbows do offer some significant advantages. There's nothing wrong with that as long as we factor it in to our conservation decisions. With an ever decreasing number of hunters hitting the woods every year it shouldn't be a problem. |
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Originally Posted By williewvr:
take him shooting with it. problem solved View Quote |
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Originally Posted By dab2: ...But he's only partially right...it's for all those 55 years of age and older and the disabled. Sounds like you got your panties in a knot girly boy! Young whipper-snappers like you should be pulling a real bow until you've 'manned-up' enough like us gray beards!! View Quote |
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My opinion, and I know it's not popular BUT, the season should be the season and the tool shouldn't matter.
Bag limits should suffice to get the kill numbers where they need to be. I hunt private family property and only care about filling the freezer. I use the best tool for the job that I can, if it were up to me everyone should be able to use any capable weapon for the entire length of the season, gun, ML, archery, etc. The only limits I can understand are stuff like draw weight, min caliber, min barrel length to accomplish a clean kill. |
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Originally Posted By Towely:
There is some validity there. The reason we get such a long season to bowhunt is because bowhunting is much, much more difficult than gun hunting. Some of the factors that make bowhunting so difficult do not exist with a crossbow. Therefor I don't think any state should open up bow season to crossbows. They should have their own season that is more condensed. If a doctor signs off on it, however, that's a moot point. if your doctor thinks shooting a bow isn't a good idea then it isn't and I have no problem with you shooting an x-bow. View Quote |
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A seperate season for crossbows? Ok, I'll play along, should there be a separate season for compound bows? Since there are so many advantages, let off, mechanical release, than a longbow? And what about recurves?
I know crossbows are inherently easier to use, but the range limitations are the same and in my opinion a single archery season makes the most sense, like ee have in Michigan. |
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No special medical permit required in Tennessee. No age limits, either. Compound and Crossbows are legal during archery season; both are also legal during rifle season. Hell, we even get to hunt with suppressors!!
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Originally Posted By ds762: I just got an Excalibur Matrix 380 for myself as an early Christmas present. I live in a state that still has their head up their ass when it comes to allowing crossbows for all archers. I do have a signed statement from my physician that states I'm eligible to use one and am legal with the state. The GF's stepdad has been one of the biggest advocates for them but his shorts got freezer burnt when he found out that I got an exemption .. after all it's bullshit in his opinion that a 34 yr old is using an xbow ... How do you all deal with the mind boggling dipshittery when it comes to the old wives tales about crossbows (ie kill deer at 100-200 yards and that it is unsporting)?? View Quote Offer to hit him in the lower back with a ballping hammer so he feels the pain you feel. I explained it like this: I always shot over 70 pounds and now I'm not comfortable shooting 45 pounds do to the fact I have hunted long enough to know with archery every once in awhile the deer jumps the string and a bad hit occurs! And I want the energy to have better chance of a decent blood trail. If he argues it just shows he hasn't hunted enough to realize that sometimes things don't go as plained. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Hunter numbers have dropped over the years. Anything to get young kids into hunting is needed. Unless someone wants to pay higher license fees every year. Can't keep putting the cost on out of state hunters forever.
https://theknow.denverpost.com/2019/09/16/hunting-numbers-declining/223765/ There were 11.5 million hunters in 2016, according to the most recent figures published by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, representing a decline of 2.2 million from 2011. In 1991, 28% of U.S. hunters fell in the 25-34 age group, accounting for the largest share of the hunting population. That number declined to 16% in 2016, and there were similar decreases in the 18-24 age group. Meanwhile, there has been a corresponding aging in the group. In 1991, 23% of the hunting population were between 45 and 64. That percentage doubled to 46% in 2016. https://business.realtree.com/business-blog/where-find-hunters-state-state Scroll down a bit for the chart of hunter numbers by state. |
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Stupid. But it did come from a dem.
Bama -Shooter |
Rumor has it NY will go to crossbow all through regular bow season and allow modern crossbows. There are outdated width and weight regulations that will be eliminated
A NY bow hunters group has waged a never ending battle against crossbows. They even tried to stop a youth firearm hunting day that was during bow season. They may be skunked now. deer are all over, crossbows are pretty common and NY needs money from hunting licenses |
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"You look like a freshman!!"-President Joe Biden to a nurse at a vaccination site
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The distance advantage isn't much when compared to a rifle. The main advantage is fewer wounded animals, higher death ratio.
I have 3 compounds and 2 crossbows and hunt with either. He's harboring the same prejudices a lot of old folks do. |
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If your are receiving this transmission, you are the resistance.
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I can't help, but I'm fighting the dipshitery in my state also. In oregon they don't allow crossbows even during general rifle season. This year for the first time they've changed the rules so now you can use a crossbow IF you have a doctor's note AND can prove you hunted with a bow before you became disabled and it's only for archery season. IMO that's discrimination against people who were born disabled and couldn't use a bow ever, or people who are new to hunting and disabled. I just want to be able to use one for general season, I'm not even trying to get special archery season. My dad always had a crossbow so it's sentimental to me. I've got his vintage crossbow hanging on the wall in my house.
I don't know what the stigma is about crossbows. I've heard they think poachers will use them because they are silent. They allow hunting with silencers and bows, so who cares. |
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The Stars at Night are Big & Bright clap*clap*clap
TX, USA
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Bow hunters are a funny group. They like to believe they are the two star belly sneetches on the beach.
A crossbow’s biggest advantage is it reduces some of the physical needs to bow hunt. Then there is the scope. As far as range goes, it only offer a very slight increase over a modern compound bow. They aren’t going to tip the scales in deer harvesting and they allow older or physically challenged hunters a chance to get extended seasons. |
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Wive's tale that I've read/heard multiple times, is that a crossbow arrow "nose dives" at around 40 yards, but a compound bow arrow of the same weight/velocity is stable much farther out, so the bow is a longer range weapon than the crossbow.
Anyway, most of my shots with either recurve, crossbow, or compound are under 20 yards. The majority are under 10 yards. I would never shoot past 40 yards. IMO Too much can happen during that flight time for a clean/ethical shot. |
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