can we keep this on topic so this dont get locked.

Got the IM's and thanks for the link.  I haven't gone through it all, but the info in that link is kinda' freaky to think about.  Action-reaction.  OODA, it's kinda' like sales- he who asks the questions controls the conversation.

I went back and re-read my posts on the first page of this thread.  The story about the dog- birdshot at 20 yards (give or take) made him mad and charge.  Point blank, muzzle firmly against his head, birdshot made a single hole that put him down without a twitch.  It did NOT cut his head in half, and the shot charge did NOT exit.  The gun had a 28" barrel with a full choke too.  That is a real story; I was there.  Scared me right out of ever trying birdshot for anything but small game ever again.  I stand behind everything I said, but...

if ikor says that 00Buck is barely adequate, and 000Buck is better, then I say go with that.  Better yet, make it copper plated, buffered, and a 3" shell.

Which brings the question, "which ammo maker do we need to pester to get adequate defense ammo for the 20 gauge?"  I would like to see it made by Remington or Winchester, but it might be better to ask the hillbillies at Kent perhaps?  Ballistic Products even has 0000 (yes, that 4 zeros) Buck for the handloader, so why not some commercial loads with that?  I mean, for cryin' out loud, we can get 00 and 000Buck for a .410, why not the 20gauge?

Just thinkin' out loud...

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