thanks for the great info

Thanks all for the info, even considering some of the negativity.

I'm in the process of building my first SBR and this thread has helped me a lot. I call this "Project '08".

This is what I've done so far and, intend to do. Comments are welcome but keep the negativity to ones self.

I just ordered a BM lower w/tele stock for my 16" BM M4 A3 type upper.

After reading this thread, I guess I will first have the lower engraved to specs. This is what I have in mind:

REGISTERED SBR
My Name
My city and state

I will be doing the CLEO sign off on this project hence the first line (no trust).

Next I will submit a Form 1 to ATF and wait for the approval.

Now, never having seen a Form 1, do I have to specify the length of the intended SBR barrel?

If I specify a 11.5" bbl. initally, can I later legally change that upper to a 14.5" bbl.?

I fully realized that I am "married" to the receiver, that's fine but, am I also "married" to the bbl length?

To complete "Project '08, I intend to purchase an AAC M4-2000 07 suppressor.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks again.

Thank you Tony.

FWIW, I just think the first line "Registered SBR" looks cool.

Quoted: Thank you Tony. FWIW, I just think the first line "Registered SBR" looks cool.

the word "registered" conjurs bad images.

maybe, "tax paid weapon"?

Quoted: FYI, there is no height requirement for the SBR engraving, only depth.

No, that's wrong.  The regs specifically say the height of the engraving must be at least 1/16".

Quoted: Quoted: anyone REALLY antsy about the "value" of their SBR lower should not even consider engraving the lower at all. engrave the upper reciever. done correctly it still meets ATF requirements, it's not a firearm, a replacement can be bought for $90 through the mail, and if you ever decide to remove your SBR from the registry for any reason, there is no marking left on the lower. I recommend that you engrave the lower receiver. The reason is that engraving the upper does not follow the the ATF requirements as your upper is not serialized, therefore not the traceable part of the weapon. The only part of your SBR that is registered is the lower itself, you are married to the barrel length minimum, but you are not married to any other component over than the lower receiver. The ATF requires that the lower be engraved. I recommend that you follow the ATF guidelines rather than the "advice" of someone who has not read the ATF guidelines and do not understand the repercussions of incorrectly engraving or any of the the other "shortcuts" they mentioned.

ATF allows you to engrave the barrel as long as you also include the serial number of the lower in the engraving.  I know this because I called them about it and that's what I did on mine.

What we need is an actual ATF employee to post a comprehensive instruction set.....

Quoted: Ted Clutter, NFA Case worker told me if anything ever happens that destroys the functionality or markings of your NFA titled lower, there is a simple form that the NFA can supply you with that transfers your tax stamp to another lower. It costs nothing and takes mere days...... I am surely not an idiot, I just get all my facts and follow the rules.

It's funny how we call up two different people and get two different answers.  My examiner specifically told me that they don't have a way to transfer a stamp from one rifle to another.  He said that I'd have to void the one that I no longer want and go through the whole process again on the other.  If the void was within six months, I could get a refund.  This was regarding a rifle that had not yet been made in to an SBR.

Quoted: 11.  Send lower off for engraving.  You do this before you send in any paperwork to the ATF in case something happens to your lower during shipping to the engraver or damage at the engraver.  You don’t want to explain to the ATF that your NFA firearm is lost in the mail.  Anybody that does this backwards is a complete idiot.

In the off chance that something happens, it's really not a big deal because the SBR has not been made yet.  You can just fax in a request to void the form 1 and get your money back.  You also have to send the approved form 1 back in the mail.  I like living on the edge, so I send off my form 1 and the receiver at the same time.

Quoted: As far as paperwork goes you will need the following: A title 2 form 1 x 2 Citizenship certification form (available on NFA website) FBI Fingerprint card  x 2 2X Color head shot pictures (2"x2" max) (I used Passport Photo) As far as the actual tax stamp keep that in a safe deposit box, make copies, like 10 of them, keep one copy with the gun at all times, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You take your 10.3" SBR to a range, and a snoopy cop comes up and starts asking you questions, you simply produce your tax stamp and carry on. not required by law for most all sates, but a good idea

If we could clean this thread up, it would make a highly useful sticky.

My question is, what, EXACTLY, goes into the envelope to the ATF (Atlanta addy?)?

Each passport photo get attached to the form how? glue stick or what?

Should the photos be of the standard face-front variety, or do I need a mugshot photo?

Will the proper fingerprint cards be available at most PD's?

Do the fingerprint cards just get tossed in the envelope also, or must the be affixed to something?

I understand there must be two copies of the form, is this two originals (each signed by the CLEO) or a complete original, then a photocopy?

Thanks for the help!

Here is a step by step guide on filling out the Form 1 as I know

(I do not pretend to be the all knowing god on this area but I have recently completed several of these)

Please Check all local and state laws prior to trying submitting an application.

1)Print out 2 copies of ATF Form 1 (5320.1) Application to Make and Register a Firearm.
  These can be gotten online but I picked them up from a friend.

2) Filling out the Form

Box 1- Type of Application
Check box A (for most of us)

Box 2-Application is made by:
 Individual-Business Entity (business, trust, etc)-Government Entity (self explanatory)

Box 3a-Trade Name
 For Businesses or trust, Name of it

Box 3b-Applicants Name and Mailing Address
 Enter yours between the two dots that frame the box

Box 3c-If your mailing address is a PO Box list street where you live

Box 3d-County (where you reside)

Box 3e-Telephone w/area code (yours)

Box 4a-Name and Location of Original Manufacture of Firearm
 Example
Sturm, Ruger and Company, Inc
Lacey Place
Southport, CT 06490

Box 4b-Type of Firearm to be Made:
 Short Barreled Rifle
 Machine Gun (only for government agencies)
 Destructive Device

Box 4c-Caliber, Gauge, or Size (.223, 9mm, or whatever)

Box 4d-Model
 10/22, AR-15, Uzi, etc

Box 4e &4f-Length (inches)
 e) Length of Barrel
 f) Overall Length

Box 4g-Serial Number
 If an existing firearm is being modified into a NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of                                
 The firearm into item 4g Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number.

Box 4h-Additional Description
 Any other identifying data that will appear on the firearm.

Box 4i-State why you intend to Make Firearm
 Mine have all been work related since we are allowed to carry are personal carbines.  So I have    
 put that in this box.  

Box 5-Applicants FFL# (if you have one) ( this includes C&R)

Box 6a & b-Special Tax Status (if you don’t know what it is you don’t one)

Box 7a thru f-Answer the yes or no questions HONESTLY (Give full details on separate sheet for any yes answers)

Box 8a thru e- Answer the yes or no questions HONESTLY (Give full details on separate sheet for any yes answers)

Box 9-Signature of Applicant (that’s you)

Box 10-Name and Title of Authorized Official of Firm or Corporation (only needed if you are doing business or trust)

Box 11-Date (not going to explain that)

Box 12-Affix a photograph that has been taken one year prior to the application no bigger than 2x2 inches (passport photos from Wal-Mart are quick and cheap.  I just use glue stick to glue them on)

Box 13-Law Enforcement Certification (only needs to done if being made by an individual)
 There is a multitude of people that can sign it, Head of State Police, state or local district      
 attorney, Sheriff and Police.  (There is a notice under box 13 that you should read about this)

Ok, now that finished that the next step is going to your local Law Enforcement Agency.  If you live in city limits that’s incorporated that would be your Police Station, if you live outside that then it would be your Sheriffs Office.  If you don’t know call and ask they will tell you.

Once you have done that contact them and let them know that you need to be finger printed (make sure that they use FBI Forms FD-258 it will be a fingerprint card with blue lines on it) It may cost $5-$10 or whatever.  While there ask to speak with a Lt. or Cpt.  And tell them that you the CLEO Chief Law Enforcement Officer to sign your paperwork also let them know that it can be his delegate as well.

Know take your applications that are all filled out, signed, and have pictures affixed to them and place them in an envelope with your fingerprint cards (I use the Fed Ex envelopes)  Get a $200 USPS MO or a check made out to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms place that in there as well then just seal.  Place your return address on the envelope and address it to:

NFA Branch of the BATF
244 Needy Rd
Martinsburg, WV 25405

I may have forgotten a step so if I did please chime and correct me.  Its early and I am tired.  Hope this helps everyone.

Very nice! Thanks for the info!

I'm calling tomorrow to make an appointment with the Chief of Police for my county.  I'm optimistic because I have read on more local boards that he is pro-gun, pro-NFA and quite friendly.

To be honest, I was really only afraid of him asking what I want an SBR for, then grilling me about it.  Fear no.2 was being rejected on a basis of pure age discrimination (I'm 23, but still get ID'd for EVERYTHING).  Seems that he may be a cool guy.  I'll report back.

Wow.  Great thread.

3 questions for the most knowledgeable group on the planet.

1. What is the process if one wishes to purchase a complete SBR weapon instead of build

2. What are the advantages or disadvantages of using a corporation of trust? (I was under the impression that if an item that creates liability such as car or weapon was in the trust that any assets in the trust- $$ or property - could not be protected in the event that the weapon or car was involved in an incident where liability was affixed in a court of law)

3. Upon registering an SBR, does one give up protection under the 4th amendment as is the case with NFA-full auto weapons?

Bonus question:  Anyone know of a Texas (preferrably Houston area)  attorney that specializes in this subject?  It may be good to get some professional help.

I'm ready to take the plunge.

Minor update:

I couldn't find the appropriate fingerprint card (fd258) at various police stations, so I called the ATF myself.  Don't ever say your 200$ does nothing, because they are kindly sending me 4 in the mail at no charge.  

I asked the kind lady on the phone about the lack of a form 1 on the ATF website right now, and she told me that the ones you find around here online are safe to use, BUT that you must print them in such a manner that pages 1 and 2 are two sides of the same sheet of paper.  You cannot print them separate and staple them.  Other then that, the online forms are A-ok.

Bonus question:  Anyone know of a Texas (preferrably Houston area)  attorney that specializes in this subject?  It may be good to get some professional help. I'm ready to take the plunge.

SC-Texas is an atty in Houston and into NFA toys.  He posts often in the Texas HTF.

Maybe this should be Taged for later. Good info

I wish to thank everyone for their input on the subject.  I am very excited about building an SBR and am grateful for the guidance.

Quoted: As far as paperwork goes you will need the following: A title 2 form 1 x 2 Citizenship certification form (available on NFA website) FBI Fingerprint card  x 2 2X Color head shot pictures (2"x2" max) (I used Passport Photo)

It should be pointed out that if you establish a trust, you don't need the fingerprints or photos.

I don't think you need the citizenship form either, but there have been mixed answers on that one.

Quoted: Bonus question:  Anyone know of a Texas (preferrably Houston area)  attorney that specializes in this subject?  It may be good to get some professional help. I'm ready to take the plunge. SC-Texas is an atty in Houston and into NFA toys.  He posts often in the Texas HTF.

THANKS! and THANKS to Tony K for the play by play.  I think I'll go find that lawyer now...rather pay for assistance than make a mistake at least on the first go round.

Quoted: Quoted: Wow.  Great thread. 3 questions for the most knowledgeable group on the planet. 1. What is the process if one wishes to purchase a complete SBR weapon instead of build You locate the item and transfer it to your name via a Form 4 vs. a Form 1. The form differs slightly, but the tax and process are the same. 2. What are the advantages or disadvantages of using a corporation of trust? (I was under the impression that if an item that creates liability such as car or weapon was in the trust that any assets in the trust- $$ or property - could not be protected in the event that the weapon or car was involved in an incident where liability was affixed in a court of law) Any entity -- individual, corporation or trust -- may be liable for an incident where liability is affixed by a court, when the incident involves an NFA asset registered to said entity. Bottom line is, if you screw up with an NFA item, the registered owner is going to get sued, and the registered owner's assets are at risk, whether they own the NFA items as an individual, corporation or trust. So do not screw up. 3. Upon registering an SBR, does one give up protection under the 4th amendment as is the case with NFA-full auto weapons? That is NOT the case with ANY NFA assets, whether full auto or SBR. Fourth amendment rights are only abrogated if you are a licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer, and then only on a limited basis extending to the business premises. The registered owner of NFA who is neither dealer, manufacturer or importer gives up NO Fourth Amendment rights. Bonus question:  Anyone know of a Texas (preferrably Houston area)  attorney that specializes in this subject?  It may be good to get some professional help. I'm ready to take the plunge.

OK Tony, last stupid question here.  In using a form 4 versus form 1, do I pay for the weapon and then process paperwork using the serial number of the weapon purchased and then take possession months later when the forms are returned and approved?

Quoted: Quoted: In using a form 4 versus form 1, do I pay for the weapon and then process paperwork using the serial number of the weapon purchased and then take possession months later when the forms are returned and approved? Yup. You pay the seller for the firearm; he fills out his part of the Form 4 and you fill out yours; it gets sent to BATFE; and when it comes back approved, the seller gives you the paperwork and you take possession of the new toy.

Roger that, Tony.  Thanks!