So I picked up 1K 50gr 224 Frangible bullets figuring they would make a good inside the house SD round
(ARa are in safe do doubtful would deploy but ya'no we want cuz)

Went to load up 100 but (this time) got smart and ran just ten off to test (I live 2.4 miles from the range)
Not so straight forward as I would have thought. Kinda puffy above the ogive so does not fit an AR mag when seated to mid canelure so had to take them down to the very edge of the canelure to get reliable feeding in Magpuls. Very tricky cuz even a little canelure showing and they don't seat well in the mag. (Better in old 20 rounds Cot mags but still finicky)

Ran over to shoot them for function not feeling confident but the all ran off quick firing fine.

No load data in any of my books so I guessed at 26gr BL-C (2) based on Lee's 45 and 55 gr data and it functioned fine (PWS MK114 Mod1 does not like light loads) with moderately flat primers.

If you bought some of these what load did you use and how did they feed in your mags and run in your AR??

I'll do a thread on these frangible bullets once my knee is near full function (had total knee replacement earlier this month). Have a couple more powders to try out and hopefully get away from a very compressed load and increase accuracy further.

Using the old GI Al body mags (blocked to 10 rds of course ) they fit the mags and feed fine. COAL 2.240"

In the mean time here is some of the data from earlier testing. Accuracy increased at higher velocities using 1/8 barrels.
Attached File


What is your COAL?

ETA: load these as you would 77gr SMK bullets as a starting load. Length is nearly the same so chamber pressures will be close.... work the load from there.

Sinterfire Reloading Manual Online

Fr0m Frangible Bullets Dot Com
To select the proper powder load for Frangible Bullets, a reloader will select the next larger standard lead-cored jacketed bullet in weight from a reloading manual. That weight will be the measured powder load suitable for FrangibleBullets as they are 30% lighter than lead or lead-cored jacketed bullets.
Frangible Bullet WeightJacketed Bullet Weight01/08
9mm90 gr.115 gr.
9mm100 gr.135 gr.
38 Super121 gr.150 gr.
357 SIG90 gr.115gr.
357 SIG100 gr.130gr.
380 Auto75 gr.100 gr.
38/35895 gr.125 gr.
38/357100 gr.140 gr.
38/357110 gr.158 gr.
38/357125 gr.180 gr.
40/10 mm105 gr.135gr.
40/10 mm125 gr.165gr.
10 mm150 gr.200gr.
44172 gr.225 gr.
45 ACP140 gr.185 gr.
45 ACP155 gr.200 gr.
22336 gr.46 gr.
22342 gr.55 gr.
22350 gr.65 gr.
22355 gr.72 gr.
243/6mm62gr.80gr.
6.8/27095gr.120gr.
308125 gr.168gr.
7.62x39 .311125 gr.168 gr.
45/70300 gr.400 gr.
50300 gr.400 gr.

Due to the nature of reloading, FrangibleBullets.Com cannot accept any responsibility as to how ammunition is reloaded. Injury or death can result from the use of improperly loaded ammunition. Be sure to check with experienced reloaders if you have any questions on procedures. Only a gentle taper crimp is recommended during bullet seating. Excessive crimping can fracture the bullet shank and jam your rifle, revolver or pistol.

I bought a bunch of these a long time ago and still haven’t gotten around to loading them.  They were super cheap so I figured I would roll the dice.

Same, I think I’ve got about 10k. I’ll just treat them like tracers and use data for a longer bullet because even though they are light they take up a lot of case capacity.

Which sort of .224 frangibles did you get?

There seems to be be two main types: The jacketed brown tip frangibles and the sinterfire compressed copper ones.

I have a small handful of each but have not messed with them yet

AR has the brown tip frangible. Haven’t seen 223 sinterfire there. I have some 308 sinterfire from them.

AR has carried the sinterfire type in .224 in the past.

OP:
I would not use them in any sort of SD scenario.  

FWIW:
Here's some data I posted from the factory brown tip ammo...........

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Some-mk311-Data/42-549817/

I've heard these ate hard on barrels, so never bought any.  Curious how this goes.

As to pricing, AmRl is not exactly at crazy discount pricing so much anymore.  I can buy new Precision Delta 124 JHP's for what they have been pricing pulls.

Your probably right. I just haven't seen any the past couple years and have just seen/bought the brown tip. We use them with steel railroad plates as targets. Doesn't ding the soft steel and gives a nice report when contact is made.

We've shot over a thousand of the brown tip and haven't noticed any barrel/throat/feedramp erosion yet.

Just bought some frangible in 45acp to see how they work out. The 308 are loaded in a 300blk load ladder that I still need to chrono one of these days.

I think I paid about $40-50/k for the frangible.

There was a member here who said they used it to great effect in Afghanistan. People thought he was talking about the Barns TSX loaded “brown tip” but he posted a picture and it sure looked like the frangible stuff. As far as I know none of the other RRLP loads have a brown tip.

I believe these pull downs are the from the same stuff as the Federal contract over runs that I took to a class way back in the day.  They turned a 1/9 HBAR  into a shotgun- 2 foot groups at 50 yards…..   A 1/7 is much better, though that wasn’t anything to write home about.  So my first suggestion is to make sure you are planning to use a fast twist if reloading for these, and don’t hold your breath about how accurate they might be.

The poor accuracy isn't totally surprising. Weren't these basically designed to allow for more rifle training in shoot houses while reducing the damage to the perimeter backstops? Shoot houses are the only time I've ever used frangible ammo.

@tac and tower

The Federal mk311 I shot here wasn't nearly as bad as both of you are saying:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Some-mk311-Data/42-549817/

I didn't try it in a 1/9 though.................  

And yes designed for things like shoot houses......... shooting steel at close range etc.  (and not for SD situations).      

I tested these this morning for accuracy
My PWS carbines are 1/8 twist so your statement gave me reason to check for bad grouping.
I am only interested in close range as inside my house (doubt I would use them but ya'no better to have etc) like 5-30 yards at most

I would say off hand at 30 yards a little less accurate than 55gr M193 types but very usable certainly for close quarter work.
Went clean through no keyholing
I would stake my life on the accuracy in house but not as GP use outside.
I would not use them in a 1/9 based on your testing (I only have 1/7 and 1/8 so can not do my own 1/9 test)
So, if you have 1/9 you should certainly test these for function/accuracy in your gun

I believe these came about because of urban combat in Iraq with heavy stone buildings causing friendly fire casualties from ricochets with FMJ.
These frangibles would disintegrate when hitting the solid stone walls.

Any Iraqi vets have experience with this?  

No, they weren't.  Not at all.  
They were designed and used for 2 main reasons:
From the Federal website:  "........The frangible ammunition is designed to disintegrate into small fragments on impact, 1-minimizing over-penetration and 2-ricochet hazards. The polymer compound round produces limited splash back, which vastly decreases ricochets, making it ideal for training applications....."

1-as in use at the limited ranges, think older less-well designed 25yd ranges.
2-as in use the shoot houses, or for example, where steel targets are being shot at an extremely close range.  

It isn't used for Self Defense nor whatever this Iraq story you came up with.  
(BTW......... frangible ammunition has been around since, atleast, WW2....... it has nothing to do with Iraq).  

This stuff is sold commercially as XM556NT1 and XM556NX1.  In the Military, it is AA40 (DODIC) aka MK311 MOD1 or MOD2

It provides garbage accuracy.  At work, we shoot it indoors...on average, out of a Colt RO933-EPR sighted with a SIG 8T or Trijicon MRO, I have seen 3" groups at 25y.  I have seen 1 or 2 cloverleaf groups out of THOUSANDS of groups i've fired or watched being fired at 25y.

I was issued a bunch of MK311 for 3-Gun comps, and it works great for blazing away at USPSA or UML or PCSL targets out to ~75y.

Some of the brown tips of the XM556NX1 we've been shooting at work these last few months have broken off and caused feeding issues.

Overall, for training ammo, it's fine.  No way in hell would I trust it for any situation on which my life or the life of another person may depend on it.