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Posted: 1/25/2024 7:55:44 AM EDT
I was reading a post from SOTAR about not being able to sign up for certain manufacturers armors class and another post about the armors books sucks.

I am just curious if there are any really big differences between the different companies classes and manuals?
Link Posted: 1/25/2024 4:36:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't know which manufacturers or firearms you're referring to, but I've been to a couple armorer courses and thought I'd share my experience with it.

The Glock armorer course was pretty lame.  The instructor went over some Glock trivia and model/generation differences, then walked us through detail stripping and reassembling the Glock pistol a few times.  He didn't even have us use the right tools for at least one of the steps (screwdriver to remove magazine catch spring, and you could tell the class guns were all torn up from it, vs an angled pick or something that could unhook the spring without tearing up the frame).
The armorer's book has the same info the instructor reviewed.
They didn't get into troubleshooting or correcting problems and the instructor had no idea what caused some Glock pistol problems I'd seen previously.

It wasn't anything you can't learn on YouTube.  If you have any mechanical aptitude, you can figure it out without the class.

The Accuracy International course was better.  The instructor went over detail stripping the bolt assembly, setting firing pin protrusion, and some bolt & trigger disassembly/reassembly and maintenance info that isn't common knowledge or covered online that I've seen.
The AI manual has the info covered in class.

I took the AI course because I've got a few, had the opportunity, and have had trouble dealing with AI on replacement parts in the past.  
They are (or were, when I dealt with them) very big on the whole "you're not professional enough to swap xyz part, so you need to send the whole rifle in, unless you're an armorer" thing.  Years back, I had a busted trigger shoe (from the factory) and they wouldn't just send me a replacement.  They insisted I needed to be an armorer, that I needed to set/reset/check firing pin protrusion, all kinds of shit.  They wouldnt sell me parts, the armorer's book, or tell me how to do any of that, since I wasn't professional enough.

Years later, in the armorer course, I learned how to set firing pin protrusion and it has nothing to do with swapping the trigger shoe.

In hindsight, I could have taken my tools to the AI and figured this stuff out myself (but they still wouldn't have provided the replacement shoe).  That said, I do appreciate knowing some of the tricks to disassembling the rifle without launching springs, having the correct fastener torques, reference values for correct firing pin protrusion, knowing where loctite goes, and stuff like that.


Overall, I think that unless you're working for an agency that requires certified armorers for liability reasons, or need/want the certification to have access to spare parts, the armorer courses are generally a waste of time.

I hate that these manufacturers hide basic maintenance info behind restricted courses and don't just make the books and info available to the public, but as long as you're looking at a relatively common or popular firearm, you can get all the info you need from the community.
If you're looking at a more specialized or less common firearm, you might need the armorer's book or course to get this kind of info.

ymmv

Link Posted: 1/25/2024 8:21:47 PM EDT
[#2]
I should had elaborate on the post better.

Chad from SOTAR applied to FN, Ruger, Springfield, S&W and LWRC armors classes and got denied to take the classes because they only offered to MiL/LE personnel only. And he won't say which company's armors manual sucks.

I thought the TDP or the armors manuals for the M16/M4 should be already close to be universal standard except for some proprietary changes if the company did to their product line. I am just curious how much different are one's company manual vs another competitor books.
Link Posted: 1/25/2024 11:37:17 PM EDT
[#3]
I hadn't heard of SOTAR before and had to look them up.  Not sure what to think of them yet.

You might have trouble getting a good comparison between the different companies' armorer courses (or finding someone who's attended enough to give you a comparison).

Like you said, except for the proprietary parts, I can't imagine them deviating all that much from the basic M16 armorer instructions.

TM 05538C-23&P/2 is freely available online, and Colt's CM118 manual was leaked and is available online, if you want to give those two a comparison.

It's frustrating how these companies treat their assembly, disassembly, and maintenance instructions like state secrets.  We're talking about how to assemble or disassemble guns that are in common use and torque values for AR handguard rails, not stealth fighters or ICBM's.
Link Posted: 1/26/2024 2:31:33 PM EDT
[#4]
FWIW most armorer's courses won't even look at you unless you have military, LE, or government credentials and are an armorer for aforementioned groups and agencies. The majority won't even look at you if you're an FFL either.

But for Chad and SOTARd, I wouldn't accept his goofy ass even if he did meet the criteria. Dude is a total charlatan whose only claim to fame is thinking he's something special because he has access to the M16 TDP.
Link Posted: 1/30/2024 11:19:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zaitsev44:
FWIW most armorer's courses won't even look at you unless you have military, LE, or government credentials and are an armorer for aforementioned groups and agencies. The majority won't even look at you if you're an FFL either.

But for Chad and SOTARd, I wouldn't accept his goofy ass even if he did meet the criteria. Dude is a total charlatan whose only claim to fame is thinking he's something special because he has access to the M16 TDP.
View Quote


That's why I asked about this. There are more than 1 side to everything.
Link Posted: 1/31/2024 1:14:10 AM EDT
[#6]
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