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Posted: 4/17/2024 10:17:18 AM EDT
I've only had 14s with manual gain. Buddies lookin to get into this and I suggested he check out the tantos which are "auto gain". So does auto gain basically mean its cranked all the way up all the time? It's dark as shit here so I suggested he go filmless which I'm thinking would work better with auto gain. I'm thinking with thin film it sucks in a dark environments where you'd wanna back it off a bit to decrease scintillation.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 10:22:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TNVC_Will] [#1]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 11:30:43 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will:


Although "auto-gain" is most commonly used, a name to better describe it is fixed-gain.

The gain level will essentially be at the tube's maximum gain. The "auto" part is the tube's ABC (automatic brightness control). ETA: So, even manual gain 11769 tube's have "auto-gain" if that makes sense

I always recommend having manual gain with a monocular but it is the user's choice. Manual gain allows you to lower the brightness which will make it easier for our brain to use the image from the unaided eye.
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will:
Originally Posted By GreenMushroom:
I've only had 14s with manual gain. Buddies lookin to get into this and I suggested he check out the tantos which are "auto gain". So does auto gain basically mean its cranked all the way up all the time? It's dark as shit here so I suggested he go filmless which I'm thinking would work better with auto gain. I'm thinking with thin film it sucks in a dark environments where you'd wanna back it off a bit to decrease scintillation.


Although "auto-gain" is most commonly used, a name to better describe it is fixed-gain.

The gain level will essentially be at the tube's maximum gain. The "auto" part is the tube's ABC (automatic brightness control). ETA: So, even manual gain 11769 tube's have "auto-gain" if that makes sense

I always recommend having manual gain with a monocular but it is the user's choice. Manual gain allows you to lower the brightness which will make it easier for our brain to use the image from the unaided eye.


Which is better for duals?
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 11:50:47 AM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By Greenspan:


Which is better for duals?
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Personal preference. I have only had auto binos. Manual 14s. For binos, I wouldn't want manual gain, just me personally. Always futzing with it. For what.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:11:09 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will:


Although "auto-gain" is most commonly used, a name to better describe it is fixed-gain.

The gain level will essentially be at the tube's maximum gain. The "auto" part is the tube's ABC (automatic brightness control). ETA: So, even manual gain 11769 tube's have "auto-gain" if that makes sense

I always recommend having manual gain with a monocular but it is the user's choice. Manual gain allows you to lower the brightness which will make it easier for our brain to use the image from the unaided eye.
View Quote


So basically crank my gain all the way up and it will approximate a fixed gain device for him to try.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:16:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:18:03 PM EDT
[#7]
make sure he does not mean "auto-gated"
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:20:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 12:46:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Crank your gain and have your buddy judge how much more 'Eye-Splash' there is, vs normal. Then after looking through 'Max Gain' for a few minutes, flip them up and judge your natural night vision, vs normal. Totally personal pref, but no way *I* would want an un-adjustable device.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 1:01:31 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will:


That'll do it. You can demonstrate the ABC with Moon light by stepping under over hang to block it and then stepping out you'll notice it dim, or looking into a dark area and then quickly looking into a bright one.

L3 tubes transition pretty quick so you may have not noticed this before but once you spot it you'll know what is now. I've seen many folks including industry people mix up ABC with autogating
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I've noticed the auto adjustment thing but I'm very much an end user type and have never given much thought to how it works. Use a coti most of the time which has its own auto adjustment and have seen the 2 play havoc with each other on occasion. Wife has a fancy L3 tube he can try to compare with my Elbits. Honestly wouldn't recommend thin films to anyone who lives around here unless mostly urban. My elbits are both 30+ snr and her L3 stomps all over them in the dark dark.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 1:02:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 1:04:54 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Crank your gain and have your buddy judge how much more 'Eye-Splash' there is, vs normal. Then after looking through 'Max Gain' for a few minutes, flip them up and judge your natural night vision, vs normal. Totally personal pref, but no way *I* would want an un-adjustable device.
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This is my personal take on this as well but want to offer options for him to try. He's got the $ and is serious bout shopping but I don't know how much use it'll get outside of camping trips. He does prs and fancy pistol shit so it could be he wants NV super simple as a just in case.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 1:12:22 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:



GreenMushroom has a ton of time under NODs and thermal, I think he definitely means auto gain aka "no gain."
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I've seen you post about the katana but do you have much time with the tantos? I know there's a company doing a tanto like setup with manual gain but obviously doesn't have the track record of Nocturn. He wants to bridge but wants to be able to separate so wife/friends can use.

You also do a lightweight 14 right with the push buttons? How does that stack weight wise with the tantos?
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 3:41:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TNVC_Will] [#14]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 7:53:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 8:45:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Will:
Check out the RVM-14

We have those listed online and housings in stock
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Thanks will. Appreciate as always.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 8:49:17 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:



If he is looking for just a monocular, I would look at a standard PVS14 or a LW14 if the weight savings is important.

I'll build a Tanto up and weigh it in the next few days. I think we have a Tanto housing in stock (we don't normally carry them).

Any reason he doesn't want to bridge two 14s?
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It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up going with standard 14s for the parts availability. He's a technical guy and I'm going to put together some options and let him try what I have in the field a bit and then he will do his own research from there.
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 9:02:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 4/17/2024 9:32:28 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:



That's the big one for me.

Let me know if we can help him, have thin filmed high grade WP and Unfilmed 20UM high grade WP in stock and shipping out same day ordered.
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Will do. Thanks again👍
Link Posted: 4/21/2024 4:20:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By Greenspan:
Which is better for duals?
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Autogated by far!
Link Posted: 4/30/2024 1:23:05 PM EDT
[#21]
The tube will sit at the maximum brightness it can go to without being damaged. If you enter an area with more light or bright lights the brightness of the image is reduced so you don't damage the tube (as much). You can always use an adjustable iris to manually reduce the brightness if you feel like it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2024 1:25:13 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By GunnyFitz:

Autogated by far!
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It's worth pointing out here that auto gain and auto gating are two different technologies, and it's likely the OP isn't talking about autogating as he is weighing it up against manual gain.
Link Posted: 4/30/2024 2:11:36 PM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By Untrust:
t's worth pointing out here that auto gain and auto gating are two different technologies, and it's likely the OP isn't talking about autogating as he is weighing it up against manual gain.
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Good point. I like manual on PVS14 but auto on DTNVS.
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 7:48:29 AM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By GunnyFitz:

Good point. I like manual on PVS14 but auto on DTNVS.
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Originally Posted By GunnyFitz:
Originally Posted By Untrust:
t's worth pointing out here that auto gain and auto gating are two different technologies, and it's likely the OP isn't talking about autogating as he is weighing it up against manual gain.

Good point. I like manual on PVS14 but auto on DTNVS.


Same for me. Manual gain on a monocular and autogain on my RNVGs. Now that they have single gain control binos I might lean that way, but I've been happy with my L3 UF WP tubes with autogain. Manual gain is also just one more expense and thing that can break.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 8:11:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Magsz18] [#25]
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94:


Same for me. Manual gain on a monocular and autogain on my RNVGs. Now that they have single gain control binos I might lean that way, but I've been happy with my L3 UF WP tubes with autogain. Manual gain is also just one more expense and thing that can break.
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Are there reports of manual gain housings failing in any significant way?  Specifically the manual gain function causing a systems failure or the feature failing to work?

It's purely personal preference.

If I was issued a system without manual gain I would run it.

If I had my choice in the matter, there is no planet on which I would run anything but Manual Gain.  I have light sensitive eyes and I almost never run my tubes at full blast.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 11:26:12 AM EDT
[#26]
I spoke about my solution to being brightness adverse/overwhelming peripheral vision with auto gain in the “navigating dark woods” thread.

I used two 30-37mm adapters and some photography lens variable neutral density filters on the ocular side of my set up.

They are designed to reduce the amount of light entering the lens of a camera when coupled with higher exposure times/apertures  to prevent the photo from being overwhelmed.

The variable nature of the ones I used means you can adjust the dimming factor by twisting them. This allows you to dial in your brightness, and contrary to the objective side irises/apertures, they don’t actually reduce the amount of light entering the system, which increases scintillation, but instead just decreases the amount of light entering your eyes.

As a bonus, they do reduce the appearance of scintillating even when dialled all the way back to the brightest setting because by nature/construction of two polarized lenses, they do dim a little.

On a bino, auto gain system, they allow you to dial things in for your eyes - like if you do a half hour adjustment period, you dial them way down and not screw your natural night vision by hitting it full blast.
.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 12:50:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 10:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Magsz18] [#28]
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Originally Posted By na1lb0hm:
I spoke about my solution to being brightness adverse/overwhelming peripheral vision with auto gain in the “navigating dark woods” thread.

I used two 30-37mm adapters and some photography lens variable neutral density filters on the ocular side of my set up.

They are designed to reduce the amount of light entering the lens of a camera when coupled with higher exposure times/apertures  to prevent the photo from being overwhelmed.

The variable nature of the ones I used means you can adjust the dimming factor by twisting them. This allows you to dial in your brightness, and contrary to the objective side irises/apertures, they don’t actually reduce the amount of light entering the system, which increases scintillation, but instead just decreases the amount of light entering your eyes.

As a bonus, they do reduce the appearance of scintillating even when dialled all the way back to the brightest setting because by nature/construction of two polarized lenses, they do dim a little.

On a bino, auto gain system, they allow you to dial things in for your eyes - like if you do a half hour adjustment period, you dial them way down and not screw your natural night vision by hitting it full blast.
.
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This is definitely a solution.  For me, it's not ideal as its adding another layer of glass that can and will fog or collect condensation to the point where it may as well be fog.  Afterall, fog is just very dense condensation.  I think the "best" solution to your workaround would probably be the Phokus Research caps.  They dont have a lens, merely an aperture system which should accomplish the same thing.  Lastly, I've never been a fan of the new wave of iris adapters.  They're yet another thing to fiddle with on the goggles that I don't want to deal with.  The last thing I want is to have to adjust the iris and I move my focus instead.  The seconds it takes to get the goggle to where I want it to be could be costly.  To each their own.  Everyone's use case is different.

Unless you need sacrificial windows, I prefer to run nothing but the natural lenses on my NODS with rubber flip caps present to protect the lenses.
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