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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:00:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DDS87]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:42:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Interested to know what all those different modes on that rear dial are, I'm guessing similar to a DBAL
I think the MAWL switchology will still be faster (1x adjustment for power and 2x buttons for beam divergence, as opposed to dialing in power and divergence separately and then hitting the fire button) but this obviously looks like it'll offer much more customization and I like the form factor a lot more But the real question is where pricing will be, and I'd be willing to bet it is high |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 11:07:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Looks interesting. I’m going to guess near MWAL pricing.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 11:18:13 AM EDT
[#3]
I have heard that it is roughly the size of an NGAL, but I do not see any weight numbers. The spec sheet states that there will be a "featherweight" variant that uses a lightened body and titanium components; I am curious as to what they would use titanium for, given that 7075 aluminum is lighter than grade 5 titanium, so they would be replacing some kind of steel part? What is this Wakizashi port they speak of, it sounds like yet another proprietary port (it seems like the MILR also will be using it)? There is also supposed to be a vis-override variant, I am curious as to how common that will be, and if there's any kind of vis-override that is inherent to the tapeswitch, separate from the button vis-override. There does not appear to be a CQB/room flood illuminator, like the RAID-X/Xe or RAIL.
I am certainly intrigued, but do remain hesitant (assuming I would even be able to get one). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 5:15:38 PM EDT
[#4]
These are all good questions. On the last point the divergence wheel has a marking that says "CQ" that I think is the CQB flood mode.
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:43:19 PM EDT
[#5]
2025 is going to be interesting.
I'm guessing 5500 price point. Gotta get that gubment cheese. I have no doubt that this is going to be a really nice product. I really do like the fit and finish of my MAWL's versus my Raid and PEQ15's. It's interesting, the slider switch looks like they stole that from Core Survival off of their helstar models. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Defaultmp3]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eiffel: These are all good questions. On the last point the divergence wheel has a marking that says "CQ" that I think is the CQB flood mode. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 11:22:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kel]
[#7]
I got to take a peek at this last month: the BE Meyers guys gave me the full rundown on the two versions they had.
In short: "MAWL in a Box" :) The slider switch basically mimics what the MAWL "close>medium>far" engagement buttons do. Push it forward, and you get long range MAWLish settings, pull it back and you get CQB appropriate illum and laser. I like it, actually prefer it to the MAWL. I appreciate symmetry, and I'm kinda traditionalist with the 12 o'clock box form factor. They had two different prototype/preproduction DAGIRs at the time. One was more "cut away" for weight, the other was more streamlined with assumedly less machining. The photo above is of the latter. The units I was shown had a very cool little flip-up hood/lens-cap arrangement that isn't in the photos here. Hmm. Unfortunately, cameras and phones weren't allowed to take photos at the government location we were at, so I can't illustrate this. It's bound to be an NGAL beater, in a similar form-factor. |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 2:18:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: I got to take a peek at this last month: the BE Meyers guys gave me the full rundown on the two versions they had. In short: "MAWL in a Box" :) The slider switch basically mimics what the MAWL "close>medium>far" engagement buttons do. Push it forward, and you get long range MAWLish settings, pull it back and you get CQB appropriate illum and laser. I like it, actually prefer it to the MAWL. I appreciate symmetry, and I'm kinda traditionalist with the 12 o'clock box form factor. They had two different prototype/preproduction DAGIRs at the time. One was more "cut away" for weight, the other was more streamlined with assumedly less machining. The photo above is of the latter. The units I was shown had a very cool little flip-up hood/lens-cap arrangement that isn't in the photos here. Hmm. Unfortunately, cameras and phones weren't allowed to take photos at the government location we were at, so I can't illustrate this. It's bound to be an NGAL beater, in a similar form-factor. 1) Are we going to be tied to Unity Tactical switches with that 1-off port? 2) What does it weight? 3) Does it take CR123? Someone said it looked the wrong size, but looks CR123 to me? 4) What steel parts are replaced with Ti in the "lightweight" model? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/7/2024 10:53:23 AM EDT
[#9]
idk what this offers better than L3Harris NGAL ?
NGAL is true and tired... I'm sure L3Harris has workout all/most quirks since it's been out for a while. This has yet to hit the market. |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 9:32:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deadbeef: idk what this offers better than L3Harris NGAL ? NGAL is true and tired... I'm sure L3Harris has workout all/most quirks since it's been out for a while. This has yet to hit the market. The Ngal is not a perfect product. This offers utility over what the NGAL has/does. Multi mode settings based upon use case are pretty awesome provided it's easy to switch between settings. Divergence adjustment of your beam is a very useful tool for varied lighting conditions at different distances. Have you ever used a MAWL? Putting it's size and weight aside, it makes using an MFAL way easier than any other MFAL on the market. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: The Ngal is not a perfect product. This offers utility over what the NGAL has/does. Multi mode settings based upon use case are pretty awesome provided it's easy to switch between settings. Divergence adjustment of your beam is a very useful tool for varied lighting conditions at different distances. Have you ever used a MAWL? Putting it's size and weight aside, it makes using an MFAL way easier than any other MFAL on the market. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: Originally Posted By deadbeef: idk what this offers better than L3Harris NGAL ? NGAL is true and tired... I'm sure L3Harris has workout all/most quirks since it's been out for a while. This has yet to hit the market. The Ngal is not a perfect product. This offers utility over what the NGAL has/does. Multi mode settings based upon use case are pretty awesome provided it's easy to switch between settings. Divergence adjustment of your beam is a very useful tool for varied lighting conditions at different distances. Have you ever used a MAWL? Putting it's size and weight aside, it makes using an MFAL way easier than any other MFAL on the market. Agreed. I'd rather see an updated MAWL. Make the A button spot and the B button flood for all 3 power levels plus triple click. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 10:56:53 AM EDT
[#12]
The ngal is the worst of the next gen lasers.
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:23:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WTFShane]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: The ngal is the worst of the next gen lasers. It's older and little outdated now since other's seemed take inspiration and improve on the design. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:45:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Sure, that is why it was picked by SOCOM.
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Posted: 5/8/2024 7:32:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: The ngal is the worst of the next gen lasers. Elaborate. |
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AUS
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Posted: 5/9/2024 4:40:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ]
[#16]
Nice, also both red and green lasers in one package and the red laser is very spicy. Best in class IR illuminator. Pointer on the high side with divergence but, you never really know until you field test. Nice form factor and great simple controls. Feels like its designed for a platform with more reach than a M4.
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Posted: 5/9/2024 5:40:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#17]
Originally Posted By deadbeef: Sure, that is why it was picked by SOCOM. Originally Posted By Magsz18: Elaborate. I know it shocks people but even socom doesn't always pick the best pick and often just goes with the cheapest option that fits the contract. Adam from spiritus systems did a good run down thats pretty spot on for many of us that have used it. I think it was live and wasn't saved but I'll try to track down the video. In short Worst controls Worst illuminator Worst overall quality The mawl is heavier but better overall The raid is much better while having a similar form factor |
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AUS
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Posted: 5/9/2024 6:39:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ]
[#18]
Looks like Meyers is out in front again. They listen, look forward and produce effective products. Makes sense as its their core business.
As an after thought, the measurement of divergence can be meaningless if diffraction rings (n sometimes m) are in or out of the calculation. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:12:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: I know it shocks people but even socom doesn't always pick the best pick and often just goes with the cheapest option that fits the contract. Adam from spiritus systems did a good run down thats pretty spot on for many of us that have used it. I think it was live and wasn't saved but I'll try to track down the video. In short Worst controls Worst illuminator Worst overall quality The mawl is heavier but better overall The raid is much better while having a similar form factor Exactly. It very well could have been part of the contract to be fixed fsp compatible for all I know. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:30:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: I know it shocks people but even socom doesn't always pick the best pick and often just goes with the cheapest option that fits the contract. Adam from spiritus systems did a good run down thats pretty spot on for many of us that have used it. I think it was live and wasn't saved but I'll try to track down the video. In short Worst controls Worst illuminator Worst overall quality The mawl is heavier but better overall The raid is much better while having a similar form factor Specially when you forget to lube MAWL's front rotary cap and it freezes during low temps |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:54:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deadbeef: Specially when you forget to lube MAWL's front rotary cap and it freezes during low temps Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deadbeef: Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: I know it shocks people but even socom doesn't always pick the best pick and often just goes with the cheapest option that fits the contract. Adam from spiritus systems did a good run down thats pretty spot on for many of us that have used it. I think it was live and wasn't saved but I'll try to track down the video. In short Worst controls Worst illuminator Worst overall quality The mawl is heavier but better overall The raid is much better while having a similar form factor Specially when you forget to lube MAWL's front rotary cap and it freezes during low temps I'm by no means saying the others are perfect. Ngal's are a step backwards from the previous gen though. Both ngals I've been issued have been trash-illuminator nobs failures and the switch port breaking have been consistent. I'd love to hear your first hand experience with it as most people I know don't care for them much. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:33:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GroundhogOZ: Nice, also both red and green lasers in one package and the red laser is very spicy. The DAGIR™ series of laser systems will be available in either green or red visible wavelength options, and color options of black and flat dark earth, as well as custom configurations for certain orders. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:41:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: I know it shocks people but even socom doesn't always pick the best pick and often just goes with the cheapest option that fits the contract. Adam from spiritus systems did a good run down thats pretty spot on for many of us that have used it. I think it was live and wasn't saved but I'll try to track down the video. In short Worst controls Worst illuminator Worst overall quality The mawl is heavier but better overall The raid is much better while having a similar form factor I can't speak to the quality or the illuminator since my sample size is SLIM. Going by the videos on the 'tube, the illuminator seems pretty potent. What was wrong with the units that you used? Was there too much variance between each unit with some performing better than others? Kind of like how the PEQ15 either has a petri dish or its clean? I think for the cost, they could have done a lot more with the unit. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:56:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magsz18: I can't speak to the quality or the illuminator since my sample size is SLIM. Going by the videos on the 'tube, the illuminator seems pretty potent. What was wrong with the units that you used? Was there too much variance between each unit with some performing better than others? Kind of like how the PEQ15 either has a petri dish or its clean? I think for the cost, they could have done a lot more with the unit. A lot of variance and a knob that malfunctioned often. I don't think they put any new tech inside of it tbh. It seems they took the existing peq and forced it into a particular form to fit the contract. |
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AUS
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Defaultmp3: There is only one vis pointer in the DAGIR, you will have to choose between red and green. From the BEM website: The DAGIR™ series of laser systems will be available in either green or red visible wavelength options, and color options of black and flat dark earth, as well as custom configurations for certain orders. Ah yes, I just saw the two wavelengths on the spec sheet - however, that red laser is very spicy and the IR illuminator up at 350mW. That will have some reach. The adjustments for low - med - high, very simple - switching, like that found on the Helstar. Thus both beam divergence and power setting can be done quickly with your thumb. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:39:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Interesting that in a world where passive aiming is becoming king we're seeing some amazing innovation with MFALs. Don't get me wrong, they still are extremely valuable, but it's just amazing to see the leap that has taken place recently with the reduced sizes and superior ergos that we're seeing.
Congrats B.E. Meyers team, too bad that unit will probably be over the $4k mark. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mah827: Looks interesting. I’m going to guess near MWAL pricing. Guessing $3-4K for the Al housing model & $4-5K for the Ti "lite", though I might be low-balling. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:32:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: A lot of variance and a knob that malfunctioned often. I don't think they put any new tech inside of it tbh. It seems they took the existing peq and forced it into a particular form to fit the contract. All it really is is a smaller and lighter peq with a better illuminator. Similar controls to what most people are used to, and simple. But the illuminator, at least on mine, is legitimately outstanding especially compared to to my atpial (non C). Thats why I love it. I wouldn’t want one of the first production ones that seemed to have issues with the illuminator wheel, but that appears to have been corrected very very early on. My biggest gripe with it is that you can’t have a unity switch immediately behind it and still be able to swap the battery. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:17:17 PM EDT
[#29]
At the risk of veering far from technical discussion, I gotta give props – the promotional tees BE Meyers had for the release of the DAGR (or now DAGIR) were fire.
 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:26:52 PM EDT
[#30]
I'd seriously consider paying $4K for a laser just for the shirt.
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AUS
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:43:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Terrato: I'd seriously consider paying $4K for a laser just for the shirt. LOL good call 
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USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 6:59:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Terrato: I'd seriously consider paying $4K for a laser just for the shirt. Life needs to specifically imitate that art. |
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