I see Classic has another branding of Radikal SAX2. I would assume it is the same/similar as the panzer?

Nvm I see it is the same one AIM has and has already been discussed.

Same!

that`s what I did. I`d rather experiment with $700 turkish clone than with a 2K Benelli.

Shoot. If you come across one let me know. I have a Salvoat my shop that I completely forgot about. Shoot. I have the moss berg chokes. Now I’m on the hunt.

Well unfortunately I found this thread! already have the stock coming from NZ lol. Is the best place to grab one still gonna be gunbroker? I'm thinking either the toros or the four peaks if I could actually find one.

Classic has these in stock. I got one this week from AIM, however I believe they are now sold out. Now who knows how long you will wait! SAX2 from Classic

My SDS from AIM arrived today.  Having never owned a Benelli M4 I cannot compare.  That said, its a really nice shotgun and definitely worth every penny if it performs as expected.  Turkenelli M4 is a winner.

Nice. I really want one, but I'm am debating just SBSing my current 20" 870 instead.

Regarding those telescoping stocks from New Zealand.... which models do they fit exactly? A million damn clones with tiny variations, it gets confusing!

Am I right that the Toros and the Four Peaks take standard Benelli style stocks without modification, but all others require a new recoil tube? Or was that an earlier generation thing, and now the Panzer and the SAX2 and everything else take the standard stocks?

If they're still different styles.... do the New Zealand stocks fit the standard or the new Turkish design?

I have several Benellis and 1 Canuck. I've also shot the Toros but none of the others. IMO between the 2 clones I've shot, the Toros was a bit smoother. Neither run as well as the Benelli.

The stock kit from NZ is a full on replacement set including the tube it mounts to.  That tube will screw on to any Benelli M4-pattern receiver after you remove what's on there.   All the clones thus far have shipped with Benelli M4 threading on the receiver for the recoil tube.

The Charles Daly's recoil tube is the same unit the Sulun Tac-12 stock kit comes with.  (Which still must be removed as the pistol grip must be installed on the tube first, then the lock nut.)  Pretty much conclusively proves these are rebranding Sulun guns.

The recoil tubes on the non-Charles Daly models have been a round-style tube that has NO provision for any sort of adjustable stock.  They merely have the threading at the top and the threaded insert at the end of the tube.  This round-pattern tube should fit Mesa Tactical and Benelli fixed stocks.  Mesa bolts on the same way the factory Huglu plastic stock does and uses a sling retainer that slips on over the tube.  Benelli threads onto the threaded portion of the tube near the receiver.

As far as generational differences go, that nomenclature largely came out of the Canadian models.  From my correspondence with a dealer up in our frozen northern neighbor, Canada was a "test market" for the M4 clones.  This is what I've gathered:

Generation 1 (Canada) (early/mid-2020)
- Bolt release in wrong position compared to Benelli
- Recoil tube is non-standard but receiver threads are compatible with Benelli (suspect this is the Sulun Tac-12 style one)
- Lots of hand-fitting by Canadian distributors, rough finish, but largely workable

Generation 2 (Canada) (miid/late-2020)
- Bolt release position adjusted to match M4
- Recoil tube changed to one compatible with Benelli stocks
- QC improvements on sights, extractor, lifter cam, finish, mag tube, etc
- Aluminum trigger housing

Canada got a run of "in-between" guns that had the Gen 2 receiver and improvements with the Gen 1 recoil tube, which is where the Gen 1.5 comes from.  Charles Daly/Chiappa Firearms does business there and internationally with Sulun, so the 601 DPS guns were the first ones into the US in late November.  Probably leftovers from Canada.  It seems all these newer clones more closely follow the Gen 2 layout though they've switched to yet another recoil tube that only works with Benelli fixed stocks instead of the 3-position tube that works with both.

Generation 1.5 (Canada/US) (late-2020) (Charles Daly 601 DPS)
- Generation 2 receiver and improvements
- Polymer trigger housing
- Generation 1 recoil tube (Sulun Tac-12 style)
- Sulun-style 1-piece 5-round mag tube with 3-ring engraving

Generation 2A (US) (early-2021) (Panzer M4, Four Peaks/Toros Copolla T4, SDS Radikal SAX2, more to come?)
- Generation 2 receiver and improvements
- Aluminum trigger housing
- US-specific slick-side round recoil compatible with Huglu, Benelli, and Mesa fixed stocks
- 2-piece 5-round mag tubes similar to the Benelli OEM units (looked like green loctite holding them together)
- Variable chrome or black-finished bolt carriers

I'm not as clear if New Zealand got the same generations as Canada.  They are straight-pull guns though.  Poor Aucklanders.

ETA - I’ll also add that we’ve pretty much seen one big shipment from each importer. (Which kinda supports Sulun doing a production run for one at a time.) I would not be surprised at all if details change on subsequent batches though if the ATF is happy (for now) with the Gen2A setup that may be what we see. I can see some flux around the Charles Daly configuration; it mirrors what they sell internationally so it simplifies their supply chain, but if Sulun makes a hard change to selling the Gen2 configuration internationally or the ATF gets their panties in a wad over the recoil tube having stock adjustment points I could see it going away. I really dig that Sulun original stock design though.

What barrel length does everyone have? The SAX2 is showing as a 19" and one site showed 19.5". All the toros I've looked at show 18.5".

My SAX2 barrel length is 18.5

Did a test fire, semi-break in today with the Panzer Arms.  I started off with some slugs to get the sights adjusted at 30 yards.  The shotgun short cycled a few times with some reduced recoil slugs and buck.  It functioned 100% with some Remington STS target loads.  The last 8-10 reduced recoil buck shells functioned perfectly.  All together i fired about 50 shells today.  I just tore it down and cleaned it for next time, which will be hopefully next week.  While cleaning, I noticed all of the screws for the rear sight and pic rail were loose.  I suppose I will put a small dab of blue Loctite on them.

Good feedback, I took mine apart and locktited everything EXCEPT the rear sight screws as mine were really tight with threadlocker and I didn't want to strip the heads. Funny how the quality of assembly on these is so different. My mag tube was hand-tight even though there was thread lock, but the tube extension was unbreakable even after torching so i cut it to get the spring retainer out.

Taking mine out next weekend to break it in, my buddy got a Charles Daly 601 so it'll be interesting to compare them.

Whelp, You guys made me spend $1100 after shipping and transfer fees.. Bought the Radikal SAX2, NZ collapsable stock (backorder), USA follower, USA hammer, USA forearm, and USA 7 round tube replacement. Is there anything else I need to/should be buying?

I bought a turkey choke for mine.  It's a little on the heavy side for hunting but I think I may give it a try.  

Which company has the 7 round tubes in stock?

Dave's Metal Works
He said my tube will ship on Tuesday.

FYI, if your still thinking about it Classic show only 6 left in stock of the Radikal SAX2

1 left in stock now!

I can confirm that my Dave’s Tube installed successfully in my Radikal SAX2.  The factory tube extension unscrewed with little effort by hand allowing removal of barrel.  15 min of direct heat with my Black & Decker heat gun on high pointed directly at the receiver/barrel through the barrel opening in receiver.  Started smoking and easily unscrewed by hand.  Still pleased.

Thanks for the heads up.  I just ordered.

If you bought the ShootingSight hammer , be prepared for it not to be a drop in part that will work. It will take ALOT of fitting for the majority if not all the clones. The A&S trigger guard, while a little more pricey, will save you a lot of headaches and time at the gunsmith.

Damn, I guess I’m in for some work.

SDS SAX2 ordered from AIM arrived at FFL today. Living in Commiefornia, so 10 day jail for my gun so I don't have it with me now but cycling the bolt seemed very smooth. Always wanted a Benelli M4 but never wanted to pay M4 prices. Now time to wait for those NZ collapsible stocks to come back into stock for the full M1014 look for half the price.



EDIT: Has anyone reported if the Daves Metal Works 7 round tubes are compatible with these Turknellis? Assuming they are but wanted to make sure others had success adding those tubes onto their Turknellis before placing the order.

My sds came in with crooked sights, kinda disappointed but for 600 shipped can’t complain, off to Dave’s metal works once 10 day jail break is over, for lifter replacement or weld up lifter (prevent benelli thumb), install Nordic bolt release, open loading port,  possible sight straightening, FYI Dave is retired now, but his apprentice Alex is running his shop....

Yes, here https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Benelli-M4-Clones--Any-Comparisons-or-Reviews/1-520113/&page=6&anc=5470049#i5469830

I can confirm that my Dave’s Tube installed successfully in my Radikal SAX2.  The factory tube extension unscrewed with little effort by hand allowing removal of barrel.  15 min of direct heat with my Black & Decker heat gun on high pointed directly at the receiver/barrel through the barrel opening in receiver.  Started smoking and easily unscrewed by hand.  Still pleased.

Thanks. Is using the existing magazine spring and follower OK with the 7 round tube?

Yes, it fit fine in my SAX2. No issues at all. My stock tube needed to be heated up a bit. As for the plug, I had to torch that thing to get her to come apart. Other then that there were no issues.

Yes, my rear sight is crooked as well. I'm waiting on my A&S Trigger guard before I take her down that far. I figured out the rear sight mounts from inside receiver, so once that arrives I will take her all the way down and mess with the rear sight.

Wow, thanks for the *thorough* explanation! So am I to take it that anything from Gen 2A will be identical? That a Toros is no different from a Panzer which is no different from a SAX2? And thus I should just buy whatever's cheapest?

(sorry for shortening the quote so much, I'm a new member and can't post more than 2000 characters at a time)

Anyone have the Sulun Arms version? If so how is it compared to the other clones?
Comes with chokes and the adjustable stock for under $600.

Are those available in the us?

So all the gen 2 models (Toros, SDS, etc) are the same? So I should just get what I can find for cheap?

The current batch's of Panzer, Toros, and SDS all appear to be the same.  They usually sell out in a matter of a day or two.  $599 seems to be the price that they are currently selling for when they become available.  Classic had the Panzer and sold out, Aimsurplus had the SDS and sold out, Classic then had the SDS and sold out, and now Atlantic has the SDS and will likely sell out soon.  Toros was available before this but the going price at the time I became aware of this thread was $750+ on GB.  I am not sure what the Panzer sold for but I think it was $599.  So, if you can get one for $599 the time to buy it is when it is in stock.  If these imports stop I expect that there will be a lot of posts in the future of people wishing they knew about these when they were available.

No kidding. My buddy stopped over when I was working on mine. He's like what'st this? I explained, and then he was on the search. I tried to tell him about them. I wonder if he ever got one....

The Charles Daly 601 DPS is back in stock at KYGunco if anyone is looking for one. $579 shipped if you do their text a check.

Panzer was 549.

Did anyone get info about when the NZ dealer that is selling those collapsible stocks will get them back on hand? I emailed them but they haven't responded back.

2 months as of 10 days ago

The dealer set up the ability to purchase for back order. I would order now and forget about it.

Yeah that's what I did.

Did they charge your card now or when they ship? If they charge when they ship, I’m getting one too.