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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:18:17 PM EDT
Howa Carbon Elevate mini-action
Rifle weighs 4lbs, 13oz. minus the Optics  6mm ARC Howa Carbon Elevate 574 Yards |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2023 8:30:36 AM EDT
[#1]
I've never understood the appeal of a bolt action rifle using an AR length cartridge.
I get that the mini action is sized accordingly but for what? Other than to sell something to uneducated customers there's no benefit. You're not getting enough length and weight savings from the shorter action to offset the limited parts compatibility and lower power cartridges. If you live somewhere that you can't use an AR, why would you still limit yourself by using an AR cartridge when your bolt action "handicap" allows you the ability to use something with more oomph like one of the creedmoors? The exception would be a suppressed bolt action using subsonic 300 blackout or 7.62x39 for discreet night hunting or pest removal. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 10:02:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I've never understood the appeal of a bolt action rifle using an AR length cartridge. I get that the mini action is sized accordingly but for what? Other than to sell something to uneducated customers there's no benefit. You're not getting enough length and weight savings from the shorter action to offset the limited parts compatibility and lower power cartridges. If you live somewhere that you can't use an AR, why would you still limit yourself by using an AR cartridge when your bolt action "handicap" allows you the ability to use something with more oomph like one of the creedmoors? The exception would be a suppressed bolt action using subsonic 300 blackout or 7.62x39 for discreet night hunting or pest removal.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: I can think of three good reasons why someone would want a bolt action chambered in short calibers that fit into the AR15 platform.
I get what you're saying, but when light recoiling rounds like 6mm creedmoor exist, or the old go-to .243 if you can find ammo, it negates that argument a lot. The pound and some change this saves over a short action hunting rifle also contributes to negating the recoil argument. With ammo costing roughly the same, I'd take the extra power for negligible increase in recoil. The reduced barrel life of creedmoor vs arc is a moot point to the average buyer of this kind of rifle. No one shooting competitions with a bolt gun is going to take a 6 arc over a 6cm or one of the other wonder 6mm rounds. They want the extra velocity and better BC to counter the wind. Less drop is nice too, but drop is the easiest thing to compensate for. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 6:28:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AP2020]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I've never understood the appeal of a bolt action rifle using an AR length cartridge. I get that the mini action is sized accordingly but for what? Other than to sell something to uneducated customers there's no benefit. You're not getting enough length and weight savings from the shorter action to offset the limited parts compatibility and lower power cartridges. If you live somewhere that you can't use an AR, why would you still limit yourself by using an AR cartridge when your bolt action "handicap" allows you the ability to use something with more oomph like one of the creedmoors? The exception would be a suppressed bolt action using subsonic 300 blackout or 7.62x39 for discreet night hunting or pest removal. If you understood the limitations of the 6mmArc in an AR regarding 52,000psi versus 62,000psi in a bolt action, you would rethink your arguments. You gain at least 200fps across the spectrum of bullet weights over an AR. 6 Creedmoor is a great cartridge, but for most nightime coyote hunter where shots average less than 200 yards, the 6mmArc is the better cartridge.  Rix Optics Leap L6 Best Thermal Optical Zoom |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 9:17:24 AM EDT
[#5]
My AR that I use for hunting weighs 6.5 lbs without my clip on. It's still sub 8 pounds with it on. I hunt a lot of large open fields and have with regularity had shots past 400 yds at night. If I wanted to take on another caliber and stick with an AR, hands down I'd pick a 6 ARC. At that point though it would make more sense to ditch the AR platform and take the still faster creed in a standard short action over the higher pressure (which I did take into account) 6 arc in a mini action rifle that will be negligibly lighter.
At the end of the day, it's your gun, you enjoy it and it meets your needs and that's awesome. I'm just saying for most people, who aren't going to handload to get those higher pressures and velocities (which again, 6 creed is still faster and flatter), they'd be better served by a standard short action in a caliber with more case capacity. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 12:10:19 PM EDT
[#6]
1st coyote with the 6mmArc.
75gr VMAX stayed inside this average sized #40 Ohio male coyote  6mm ARC Howa Carbon Elevate No. 44 Coyote |
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Posted: 10/10/2023 1:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: turbobrick]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I've never understood the appeal of a bolt action rifle using an AR length cartridge. I get that the mini action is sized accordingly but for what? Other than to sell something to uneducated customers there's no benefit. You're not getting enough length and weight savings from the shorter action to offset the limited parts compatibility and lower power cartridges. If you live somewhere that you can't use an AR, why would you still limit yourself by using an AR cartridge when your bolt action "handicap" allows you the ability to use something with more oomph like one of the creedmoors? The exception would be a suppressed bolt action using subsonic 300 blackout or 7.62x39 for discreet night hunting or pest removal. EDIT: I neglected to add that the advantage of size is not only in length of the action, the whole thing is slimmed down. Carbon6 makes a special barrel blank with a smaller diameter to match the Howa Mini action. At the end of the day, its short, narrow, light, and approaches light 243 performance with no recoil. I can spot my own impacts with no effort. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2023 3:55:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbobrick: Specifically with the 6arc, you can push the cartridge significantly further in a bolt gun than in a AR. My 2 Howa Minis in 6arc are amazingly accurate, compact, light, and fun. I had an AR in ARC, but I wanted to find out what it could do if it wasn't held back by the weaker action. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2023 9:45:42 PM EDT
[#9]
6mm ARC is one of the very few "new" cartridges that interest me.
But i'm only interested in it when i can find a 26" bolt gun or justify in my mind building one. Seems like it would be interesting at 1k or a little more. I have it in my head it would make an awesome prairie dog gun. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 11:37:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By acman145acp: 6mm ARC is one of the very few "new" cartridges that interest me. But i'm only interested in it when i can find a 26" bolt gun or justify in my mind building one. Seems like it would be interesting at 1k or a little more. I have it in my head it would make an awesome prairie dog gun. |
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Posted: 10/12/2023 8:55:42 AM EDT
[#11]
I would definitely have a bolt action chambered in 6 ARC if I could fine one in left hand. I am more interested in the mini actions but no one makes them in left hand versions that I can find.
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Posted: 10/12/2023 8:59:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I get what you're saying, but when light recoiling rounds like 6mm creedmoor exist, or the old go-to .243 if you can find ammo, it negates that argument a lot. The pound and some change this saves over a short action hunting rifle also contributes to negating the recoil argument. With ammo costing roughly the same, I'd take the extra power for negligible increase in recoil. The reduced barrel life of creedmoor vs arc is a moot point to the average buyer of this kind of rifle. No one shooting competitions with a bolt gun is going to take a 6 arc over a 6cm or one of the other wonder 6mm rounds. They want the extra velocity and better BC to counter the wind. Less drop is nice too, but drop is the easiest thing to compensate for. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2023 2:46:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: And then there are people like me that are disabled with bad shoulders so we will take any and all recoil reduction we can. Since I shoot left hand I am pretty much stuck with using standard short action rifles so there will be less recoil with 6 ARC versus 243 or 6 Creedmoor. So then you're proving my point. A short action will be slightly heavier than this mini action, aiding in recoil reduction. There's a reason precision rifles are heavy. |
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Posted: 10/13/2023 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: So then you're proving my point. A short action will be slightly heavier than this mini action, aiding in recoil reduction. There's a reason precision rifles are heavy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: Originally Posted By chumpmiester: And then there are people like me that are disabled with bad shoulders so we will take any and all recoil reduction we can. Since I shoot left hand I am pretty much stuck with using standard short action rifles so there will be less recoil with 6 ARC versus 243 or 6 Creedmoor. So then you're proving my point. A short action will be slightly heavier than this mini action, aiding in recoil reduction. There's a reason precision rifles are heavy. Weight is good for recoil but bad for everything else. If he is injured it works against that. I agree it’s a limited niche but it’s definitely useful for people. 308ish sized cartridges are overkill for a lot of critters so a small light rifle is really handy. |
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Posted: 10/13/2023 3:31:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By acman145acp: 6mm ARC is one of the very few "new" cartridges that interest me. But i'm only interested in it when i can find a 26" bolt gun or justify in my mind building one. Seems like it would be interesting at 1k or a little more. I have it in my head it would make an awesome prairie dog gun. In that application it makes less sense to me unless you are trying to build a light 1000 plinker which would be unique. Because it’s an odd combination you are probably better off rebarreling a gun and they can do it to whatever spec you desire. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2023 1:05:12 PM EDT
[#16]
I added a couple of upgrades.
 6mm ARC Howa Carbon Elevate Upgrades |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 9:26:09 AM EDT
[#17]
I’d love a pair of Ruger American Ranch rifles in 6 ARC for my daughters. Lighter weight, lower recoiling and hopefully cheaper than .243 in the long run. Would be a good first deer rifle IMO.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:40:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WantsAnRRA: I'd love a pair of Ruger American Ranch rifles in 6 ARC for my daughters. Lighter weight, lower recoiling and hopefully cheaper than .243 in the long run. Would be a good first deer rifle IMO. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:28:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WantsAnRRA: I'd love a pair of Ruger American Ranch rifles in 6 ARC for my daughters. Lighter weight, lower recoiling and hopefully cheaper than .243 in the long run. Would be a good first deer rifle IMO. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2023 5:39:46 PM EDT
[#20]
2nd coyote with the 6mm ARC
 Rix Optics Leap L6 Thermal No. 45 Coyote |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 4:40:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By AP2020: Howa Carbon Elevate mini-action Rifle weighs 4lbs, 13oz. minus the Optics  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2mDW0LssFc Attached File |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2023 6:13:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I get what you're saying, but when light recoiling rounds like 6mm creedmoor exist, or the old go-to .243 if you can find ammo, it negates that argument a lot. The pound and some change this saves over a short action hunting rifle also contributes to negating the recoil argument. With ammo costing roughly the same, I'd take the extra power for negligible increase in recoil. The reduced barrel life of creedmoor vs arc is a moot point to the average buyer of this kind of rifle. No one shooting competitions with a bolt gun is going to take a 6 arc over a 6cm or one of the other wonder 6mm rounds. They want the extra velocity and better BC to counter the wind. Less drop is nice too, but drop is the easiest thing to compensate for. Mini action bolts are awesome for general shooting. They aren't meant to replace an AR, but they are often more useful for some types of hunting where you place a premium on accuracy. I spend way more time shooting .223 bolt than AR. Barrel life can be a huge part of it, regardless of your opinion, since 6mm Creed can be shot out pretty darn quickly. ARC should ofter 2x + the barrel life, and 90% of the capability. Any shooter that needs that extra 10% of performance already has a Creed. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2023 5:53:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: I can think of three good reasons why someone would want a bolt action chambered in short calibers that fit into the AR15 platform.
I recently barreled a Savage model 10 in .300 AAC BLK and love it...........no recoil, making fun to shoot..........in the process of doing 2 more..........lol |
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Posted: 12/3/2023 8:50:23 AM EDT
[#24]
I looked at 6arc when Fin was having a lot of sales. I decided against yet another varmint rifle. Maybe I'll rethink.
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Posted: 12/3/2023 9:05:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eracer]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: And then there are people like me that are disabled with bad shoulders so we will take any and all recoil reduction we can. Since I shoot left hand I am pretty much stuck with using standard short action rifles so there will be less recoil with 6 ARC versus 243 or 6 Creedmoor. This has become a real concern for me since my right shoulder rotator cuff surgery 18 months ago. I haven't shot any of my heavier calibers since, and I'm not sure I want to ever take the chance with my .45/70, K31, .30-06 bolt guns, or even the softer shooting Garand. I can't even contemplate wrecking my shoulder and having to go through another repair. I may need to stick with my Grendel for anything above .22 caliber. Although 6mm ARC is quite appealing. |
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FM, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2023 10:47:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DH243]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Middlelength: Mini action bolts are awesome for general shooting. They aren't meant to replace an AR, but they are often more useful for some types of hunting where you place a premium on accuracy. I spend way more time shooting .223 bolt than AR. Barrel life can be a huge part of it, regardless of your opinion, since 6mm Creed can be shot out pretty darn quickly. ARC should ofter 2x + the barrel life, and 90% of the capability. Any shooter that needs that extra 10% of performance already has a Creed. Keep in mind if you flog on the 6arc and load to 62k, 2 things, brass life will be shorter and barrel life will also be shorter. The brass life is pretty self explanatory. On the barrel life, if 6creed is running 3150 with a 105-110gr bullet and slower burn rate powder, and you are pushing a 6arc to 3000+ with a faster burnrate/hotter powder, barrel life will be pretty similar, not 2x as much. Alot of barrel life is determined by rate of fire, powder volume, powder burn rate and chem make up(double base vs single base). I had a personal 243win fast twist on an AI that went 2200 rds before it lost about 100fps. By 2400rds it was started to show fliers at 1k that weren't there at 100. That rifle was shot in some matches on steel, never flogged on like a fclass gun but definitely wasn't babies either. 6creed will have similar life in similar conditions. A hotted up 6arc isn't going to get alot more than that(maybe 3-400 more rds), definitely not 2x. |
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Posted: 12/30/2023 11:34:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Wonder if they'll do a 22 ARC? That interests me more than the 6mm.
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FM, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2023 12:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DH243]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NE223: Wonder if they'll do a 22 ARC? That interests me more than the 6mm. I was always more impressed with the 6mm grendel(lbc) than the 6.5grendel. There's just not enough case capacity to push the interesting 6.5mm bullets. What kind of speed and bullet weight will the 22arc run without being way over pressure? Reason I ask is I'm easily getting 77smk to 2995fps with tac in a 24" wylde chamber, ican also run 75gr eldm to 3010 with h4895(can go hotter but that load is shooting in the .2s and maintains .5moa to 850yds). |
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Posted: 12/30/2023 12:53:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NE223: Wonder if they'll do a 22 ARC? That interests me more than the 6mm. They already are. They show a couple heavy target loads and a lighter faster varmint/target load. I think it will do well. https://www.hornady.com/22arc# |
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USA
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Posted: 1/16/2024 5:47:42 AM EDT
[#30]
I love the 6 ARC. Probably my favorite caliber right now. I have a bolt, and three AR’s chambered in it. I can shoot 58 gr vmax for predators up to 108 gr high bc bullets for larger game and ringing steel at long range. I like the light recoil, efficient design, and long barrel life. The bolt gun is wickedly accurate.
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Posted: 2/16/2024 12:46:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spectre3: I get what you're saying, but when light recoiling rounds like 6mm creedmoor exist, or the old go-to .243 if you can find ammo, it negates that argument a lot. The pound and some change this saves over a short action hunting rifle also contributes to negating the recoil argument. With ammo costing roughly the same, I'd take the extra power for negligible increase in recoil. The reduced barrel life of creedmoor vs arc is a moot point to the average buyer of this kind of rifle. No one shooting competitions with a bolt gun is going to take a 6 arc over a 6cm or one of the other wonder 6mm rounds. They want the extra velocity and better BC to counter the wind. Less drop is nice too, but drop is the easiest thing to compensate for. Not entirely acccurate. Most ppl shooting comps (PRS/NRL) like the BC and light recoil of 6mm’s, but the 6creed has fallen out of favor due to speed, barrel life and recoil. For PRS, or other events where shooting from barricades accounts for 60-80% of your shots, you want the least amount of recoil possible. Having a bullet in the 2775-2950fps range helps for spotting on the closer targets. A hopped up 6creed at 3150fps gets to 275-450yds in a hurry. The 6arc Hornady loads are hitting 2775 and 2805fps in my 26” Krieger barrel. That’s approaching 6BR velocity, while staying slow enough to spot easily with minimum recoil…and it’s FACTORY ammo. That’s the selling point for 6arc from a competition side. Most of the other 6mm variants below a 6creed don’t have affordable factory ammo, sans the 6GT which is harder to find. For someone like me, who has limited time to reload, it made the 6arc a good option even though I have 6 dasher, 6BRA, 6GT and 6x47L reamers. I’ll still run my 6creed’s, namely because I stacked deep on the PRIME 107 ammo (3050fps), but the 6arc isn’t at as big of a disadvantage as you might think. |
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