User Panel
Posted: 8/9/2023 12:25:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: swampfoxoutdoors]
Metals and metallurgy.
Design. What they are doing instead of welding. DB reduction, and how those numbers were calculated. Mounts. Size, including length, width, and volume. Baffle stack design and theory. Backpressure. Change in performance relating to differing projo grain weights and barrel lengths. POI shift. Weight. Since this is a technical discussion let’s see what CAT actually has. Link to Vol.1 Half of the links on the actual website dont work for me. Seems like they have some bugs to iron out. Originally Posted By LuckyDucky: The website has been updated: https://specterscat.com/cat-a2/ The bottom says CAT is a "WRD PROPRIETARY BRAND", so it looks like I was right that it is Wain Research & Development in Singapore. It includes product pages with specs and pricing for a lot of the items, warranty page, about page. Suppressor pages: https://specterscat.com/product/cat-odb/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-wb/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-dito/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-mob/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-sc-a1/ (For the kitties watching, your URL is wrong, it should be cat-sc-b1) https://specterscat.com/product/cat-sr-a1/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-jl/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-jl/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-bbk/ Accessory pages: https://specterscat.com/product/cat206/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-spooky1/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-spooky2/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-nb/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-tsf-x/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-pt/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-sticky/ https://specterscat.com/product/cat-sy/ Rifle: https://specterscat.com/product/cat-cac-r/ View Quote |
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Could we add to clarify who this shadow company is? I think it’s important to know that as well.
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This is a nice distraction from the Sierra5 threads
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
Originally Posted By thehun06: Could we add to clarify who this shadow company is? I think it’s important to know that as well. View Quote If they actually provided some substance I can / will add everything to the OP. Originally Posted By bradpierson26: This is a nice distraction from the Sierra5 threads View Quote True |
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There was a question about whether Cat, as a company, is banned from this forum.
I have no idea how this got started, but it is totally incorrect. One user was banned from Arfcom for having an IP address of a foreign country commonly used by China to circumvent an Arfcom country-wide IP ban. Unless Cat is only one person, this is not a ban on an entire company. |
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Originally Posted By prebans: There was a question about whether Cat, as a company, is banned from this forum. I have no idea how this got started, but it is totally incorrect. One user was banned from Arfcom for having an IP address of a foreign country commonly used by China to circumvent an Arfcom country-wide IP ban. Unless Cat is only one person, this is not a ban on an entire company. View Quote But just to clarify a individual representing a company in a professional level has to have a industry account correct? |
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They have posted technical data on their Instagram. Their social media team has been straightforward with everyone over there. If you want you can dm them there. The chances of them returning to arfcom or answering any questions about who their parent company is are somewhere around slim to none (based on their Instagram stories today)
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I saw they use the same manufacturer as CGS which is interesting.
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: They have posted technical data on their Instagram. Their social media team has been straightforward with everyone over there. If you want you can dm them there. The chances of them returning to arfcom or answering any questions about who their parent company is are somewhere around slim to none (based on their Instagram stories today) View Quote Well ... looking at how they responded on IG and Reddit makes me think they are an arrogant flying high operator attitude bunch and that they don't owe anyone any explanation about their origin ... because they are Tier 1 and no one else is at their level ... I wouldn't want to give a company like that any of my money ... So ... CAT can go ahead and pound sand at this point ... They are going to get booted from Reddit too for the same kind of crap they pulled here ... Anyways ... whatever ... they arent willing to share anything ... so this thread is a bust anyways ... |
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Originally Posted By bradpierson26: This is a nice distraction from the Sierra5 threads View Quote Since neither CAT, nor CGS, is making the actual silencers, who is the warranting entity? CAT is already trying to evade making their identity known, will consumers get blown off same, less, or worse than S5 owners? |
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: They have posted technical data on their Instagram. Their social media team has been straightforward with everyone over there. If you want you can dm them there. The chances of them returning to arfcom or answering any questions about who their parent company is are somewhere around slim to none (based on their Instagram stories today) View Quote I can only deduce that kittynaughty was a representative/stakeholder in the company from your statement. Is that correct? |
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Since it looks like boobookitty pew was banned, here is some thechnical info from this link:
https://www.reddit.com/user/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/qa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Price and materials: We’re high performance tech but no ridiculous pricing ie we don’t want the consumer ever paying more than $1350 (after free tax stamp) on the most expensive Inconel product. We use a proprietary Inconel mix, and a specific European DMLS machine but no one is allowed to start screwing our consumers Mounting options: This is the first time we have ever done a 1.375x24 hub, because we’ve never done civilian before. We are use to in-built direct thread or 1x16LH QD (companies like CGS have started using it in the US). It will be a 90 degree, non-tapered (so not like CGS) because the civilian market like changing accessories. You will get a reducer cap from 1.375x24 to direct thread out of the box, so you don’t ever need to buy our accessories. Yes, if you request 5/8 or 1/2. If you want to buy Spooky 1 or 2, simply buy TSF X (the dedicated reducer from 1.375x24 to 1x16LH). If you’ve sent too much money buying other accessories over the years, direct thread or use another QD. Calibers: Fill names will announce with website but currently in calibers - 762 Surge Bypass, 762 Bolt, 556, .22, 9, 45ACP, .36, .46, 8.6 Mounting options and testing: We’ll test with any lab that’s reputable and the market majority wants us to. So initially, PEW in US. Today, PEW only get TSF X in-built hub models to test, trying to test for every 1.375x24 combination would never end. We’ll offer the attachments but no one is forced to use them. |
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If you are putting a lot of effort into arguing with me, you are probably really just wasting your time, sorry.
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Originally Posted By thehun06: Could we add to clarify who this shadow company is? I think it’s important to know that as well. View Quote I think that needs to be known before there is any further discussion about it. It is still unclear if these are a domestically produced product; if they are not, the discussion is going to take a different course because they will not be available to any private citizen in the U.S.A., and it may also preclude discussion of certain technical aspects with representatives or affliliates of the company due to ITAR. |
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Suppress all the things!
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WHAT KIND OF EXPLANATION IS THIS?!?
Some units like suppressors that create a flash bang attribute. Like literally whaaat. These dudes are riding marketing schemes beyond belief … before we know it, CAT will say they use sonar like tech to mitigate waves … haha the_CAT_official • 7 hr. ago Good questions. Hmm, well we go by the name first, and you choose one - suppressor or silencer. If it’s “suppressor” - then that’s all unsuppressed characteristics combined, like pressure, blast wave, flash, sound etc. If it’s “silencer”, then sound, in all its variations. We’ve got a pedigree of coming from specific problem design, so sometimes the user doesn’t care about flash, only blast propagation ie there are units that don’t mind flash in CQB, because it creates flinching, like a flash bang but they hate the pressure wave if they are right next to a fellow operator or in small space. If they have such pedigree why is it so hard to actually share who they are … it would give them legitimacy in what tech data they are sharing and what they are actually saying and claiming … |
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Originally Posted By ECCO_Machine: I think that needs to be known before there is any further discussion about it. It is still unclear if these are a domestically produced product; if they are not, the discussion is going to take a different course because they will not be available to any private citizen in the U.S.A., and it may also preclude discussion of certain technical aspects with representatives or affliliates of the company due to ITAR. View Quote From what I gather, they are basically licensing their intellectual property to cgs to produce and distribute the suppressors. It wouldn't be any different than having a cgs suppressor as I can tell. Seems to be more like CAT marketed and designed IP with CGS's name on it. |
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Originally Posted By ECCO_Machine: I think that needs to be known before there is any further discussion about it. It is still unclear if these are a domestically produced product; if they are not, the discussion is going to take a different course because they will not be available to any private citizen in the U.S.A., and it may also preclude discussion of certain technical aspects with representatives or affliliates of the company due to ITAR. View Quote From everything that’s been said by them and others apparently in the know, the cans will be domestically produced in the US by the same manufacturer who makes CGS’s cans, and CGS will be responsible for final machining and distribution. I’m still very curious about the apparently foreign defense contractor behind the CAT brand, and where they’re actually from. Their site is registered with a South African domain registrar, they have some significant aesthetic similarities with The Specter Factory (whatever that is) who also shares the same South African domain registrar, and the now-banned poster was posting from a foreign IP range commonly used by Chinese avoiding Arfcom’s IP-block of China. They mention being in the US, Europe, and Asia. It’s very odd. I keep thinking S. Africa, but with the Asian connection it could also be S. Korea and/or Singapore. ETA: I’m leaning toward Thales Group. |
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"When you call the cops to raise your kids, don't be surprised when they try to pack 20 years into 5 minutes." -RealFastV6
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Surprisingly (at least to me), a comment on Reddit suggests that Chase at Silencer Shop seemingly knows CAT:
https://www.reddit.com/u/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/comment/jvgtd1x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Sort of a weird situation where big players like SS and Pew are familiar with them, and no one else seems to have a clue who they really are. |
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Would not mind having more options in the market.
Looking forward to data, testing, and price point on them. Although there are already a ton of red flags for me. I am most interested on how additive manufacturing will work on something like this with the pressure and heat. |
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Originally Posted By mrwetwork: From what I gather, they are basically licensing their intellectual property to cgs to produce and distribute the suppressors. It wouldn't be any different than having a cgs suppressor as I can tell. Seems to be more like CAT marketed and designed IP with CGS's name on it. View Quote Why can’t @tuukka do the same? |
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
So somehow CAT has extracted the secret sauce of space/time/sound continuum from the 9th dimension and applied it to suppressors
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Don't let the join date fool you... here since '97
VA, USA
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www.HansohnBrothers.com
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Maybe ST Kinetics out of Singapore.
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Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: I can only deduce that kittynaughty was a representative/stakeholder in the company from your statement. Is that correct? View Quote I am not a representative of CAT or CGS or any other company in the firearms industry. So I cannot answer this for certain, however their Instagram stories would indicate that yes naughtykitty was a representative of CAT |
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Until they’re more open about who they are, where their products are made and who they’re wrapped up with, I’m not even the slightest bit interested. If they’re actually tied up with CGS in any meaningful capacity, I’ll definitely pass.
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I'm starting to wonder if this group wants to terminate their contract with CGS but needs CGS to initiate it, because they are going out of their way to be a PR nightmare.
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This isn’t exactly a technical discussion, but it’s a worthy discussion. There are a lot of legitimate questions about this company, who they were/have been, etc. The international part raises my legal eyebrow. As Ecco said, ITAR makes sharing of defense product details hell. I have no idea how they intend to remain ITAR-compliant with defense data likely flowing into and out of the US.
Thank you for keeping the insults and personal attacks out of it. I hope this thread can remain unlocked. If they have excellent products and they can lawfully pull it off, it’ll be one hell of a company. I look forward to reading more substantive details with hard data from reliable sources. |
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Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors: But just to clarify a individual representing a company in a professional level has to have a industry account correct? View Quote It takes a vendor account to market and sell one’s products on Arfcom. I am aware of other industry members with non-vendor accounts here. Some quietly answer questions when they arise. 15-20 years ago, I had one IM me when I complained about a defective product in a thread. They helped me get a ground call tag, assisted with repair, and got it turned around for me. They never posted anything about their products publicly in any way. (And this was back when I wasn’t even a paid member, much less a Mod of anything.) The trouble is that there’s a lot of gray. When does answering a few questions go to holding court in a thread or forum or really needing to sign up for their own forum? That’s for people with a higher pay grade than me to decide once it becomes an issue. I’m sorry it’s not a simple answer. But this is how it seems to work around Arfcom. It’s a clear line not to advertise and not to list stuff for sale. Answer a few questions and you’re fine. Quietly fix someone’s problems and you’re probably still fine. But do it enough, especially publicly, and start holding yourself out to be a resource on the board and you’ll probably need that vendor account. |
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I wish them the best but the way they have so far conducted business makes me have many many red flags ...
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Originally Posted By prebans: It takes a vendor account to market and sell one’s products on Arfcom. I am aware of other industry members with non-vendor accounts here. Some quietly answer questions when they arise. 15-20 years ago, I had one IM me when I complained about a defective product in a thread. They helped me get a ground call tag, assisted with repair, and got it turned around for me. They never posted anything about their products publicly in any way. (And this was back when I wasn’t even a paid member, much less a Mod of anything.) The trouble is that there’s a lot of gray. When does answering a few questions go to holding court in a thread or forum or really needing to sign up for their own forum? That’s for people with a higher pay grade than me to decide once it becomes an issue. I’m sorry it’s not a simple answer. But this is how it seems to work around Arfcom. It’s a clear line not to advertise and not to list stuff for sale. Answer a few questions and you’re fine. Quietly fix someone’s problems and you’re probably still fine. But do it enough, especially publicly, and start holding yourself out to be a resource on the board and you’ll probably need that vendor account. View Quote Mageever answers questions Griffin_armament pushes products/reviews One is paid and one isn’t. Seems like a clear line |
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Mageever answers questions Griffin_armament pushes products/reviews One is paid and one isn’t. Seems like a clear line View Quote Yes, there's a clear line when it comes to advertising, promoting products & services. What's less clear is everything below that threshold where it's ultimately up to individual staff members. Seems to generally be a little more latitude if an industry individual has a paid member account and conducts themselves with decorum. Most here know that I ran with a platinum personal account for quite awhile and just stuck to answering questions in threads that other's started, and with the exception of one particular instance with really bad timing, that was OK, but I had to be very careful; if it was asked "do you do X?", I could say "yes", but I really couldn't say "and I also do Y & Z". We finally got to a point where I could justify and afford an industry account so I didn't have to walk that blurry line any longer. I would say that naughtykitty was definitely over the line promoting with a free account, but it's moot since the account was registered from a banned region. |
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Suppress all the things!
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Originally Posted By ECCO_Machine: Yes, there's a clear line when it comes to advertising, promoting products & services. What's less clear is everything below that threshold where it's ultimately up to individual staff members. Seems to generally be a little more latitude if an industry individual has a paid member account and conducts themselves with decorum. Most here know that I ran with a platinum personal account for quite awhile and just stuck to answering questions in threads that other's started, and with the exception of one particular instance with really bad timing, that was OK, but I had to be very careful; if it was asked "do you do X?", I could say "yes", but I really couldn't say "and I also do Y & Z". We finally got to a point where I could justify and afford an industry account so I didn't have to walk that blurry line any longer. I would say that naughtykitty was definitely over the line promoting with a free account, but it's moot since the account was registered from a banned region. View Quote "Clear line" is a bold statement. A company whose name rhymes with Toward Frontal Resigns regularly promotes products and releases. Hell, they've got a 27 page thread dedicated to them. They must know someone. Anywho, back to the thread. Paging @pacorabanne or whatever his name was. This is going to be a shit show...so I'm in. |
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“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.” -Patches O’Houlihan
"I don't eff with poorsies." -Mona-Lisa Saperstein |
Originally Posted By prebans: This isn’t exactly a technical discussion, but it’s a worthy discussion. There are a lot of legitimate questions about this company, who they were/have been, etc. The international part raises my legal eyebrow. As Ecco said, ITAR makes sharing of defense product details hell. I have no idea how they intend to remain ITAR-compliant with defense data likely flowing into and out of the US. Thank you for keeping the insults and personal attacks out of it. I hope this thread can remain unlocked. If they have excellent products and they can lawfully pull it off, it’ll be one hell of a company. I look forward to reading more substantive details with hard data from reliable sources. View Quote A new hypebeast marketing "company" is maybe, possibly, reselling a overpriced suppressor they didn't design or manufacture, and it's qc'd by another hypebeast company with close ties to the usual hypebeast bullshit pedalers pushing this vaporware can as the greatest can for operational operators that operate (on the 'gram) This thread should be locked, it doesn't need to exist because the product doesn't exist. No actual data, patents, or useful discussion to be had Go read the reddit thread and vol1 here, there's more red flags than in Beijing on a windy day |
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Originally Posted By Luny421: "Clear line" is a bold statement. A company whose name rhymes with Toward Frontal Resigns regularly promotes products and releases. Hell, they've got a 27 page thread dedicated to them. They must know someone. Anywho, back to the thread. Paging @pacorabanne or whatever his name was. This is going to be a shit show...so I'm in. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Luny421: Originally Posted By ECCO_Machine: Yes, there's a clear line when it comes to advertising, promoting products & services. What's less clear is everything below that threshold where it's ultimately up to individual staff members. Seems to generally be a little more latitude if an industry individual has a paid member account and conducts themselves with decorum. Most here know that I ran with a platinum personal account for quite awhile and just stuck to answering questions in threads that other's started, and with the exception of one particular instance with really bad timing, that was OK, but I had to be very careful; if it was asked "do you do X?", I could say "yes", but I really couldn't say "and I also do Y & Z". We finally got to a point where I could justify and afford an industry account so I didn't have to walk that blurry line any longer. I would say that naughtykitty was definitely over the line promoting with a free account, but it's moot since the account was registered from a banned region. "Clear line" is a bold statement. A company whose name rhymes with Toward Frontal Resigns regularly promotes products and releases. Hell, they've got a 27 page thread dedicated to them. They must know someone. Anywho, back to the thread. Paging @pacorabanne or whatever his name was. This is going to be a shit show...so I'm in. Who started the FCD thread? Posting a link to your webstore should clearly be out of bounds |
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
Originally Posted By Luny421: "Clear line" is a bold statement. A company whose name rhymes with Toward Frontal Resigns regularly promotes products and releases. Hell, they've got a 27 page thread dedicated to them. They must know someone. Anywho, back to the thread. Paging @pacorabanne or whatever his name was. This is going to be a shit show...so I'm in. View Quote No, @luny421 It won’t be a shitshow. If it starts heading that way again, the thread gets locked and those responsible can enjoy some time elsewhere. |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: A new hypebeast marketing "company" is maybe, possibly, reselling a overpriced suppressor they didn't design or manufacture, and it's qc'd by another hypebeast company with close ties to the usual hypebeast bullshit pedalers pushing this vaporware can as the greatest can for operational operators that operate (on the 'gram) This thread should be locked, it doesn't need to exist because the product doesn't exist. No actual data, patents, or useful discussion to be had Go read the reddit thread and vol1 here, there's more red flags than in Beijing on a windy day View Quote If it’s just hype and BS, let’s have a thread for people who Google their name to see. If it suddenly goes to hard and solid information, I’m fine watching and learning as well. For now, this’ll stay unlocked. But if it becomes a mess, the thread gets locked and the responsible parties can enjoy their time away from the forum for a while. |
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I want everyone to know that I'm gonna really enjoy coming back to this thread in a month.
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This company may come out with something truly innovative but how they have conducted themselves thus far I wont be making a purchase from them.
We have so many good suppressor companies and designs to choose from current why get involved with a company that conducts themselves in such a way that is not established in the domestic market. And this is trying to stay on topic but I think a companies overall appearance, customer service and public relations health definitely falls into technical discussion. |
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: I want everyone to know that I'm gonna really enjoy coming back to this thread in a month. View Quote Is that when you plan to be forthright about why you are so emotionally invested in CAT and the goings-on in this forum after literally never having posted on Arf previously? |
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"Life is Hard, its Harder if You're Stupid" - John Wayne
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Originally Posted By peachy: Is that when you plan to be forthright about why you are so emotionally invested in CAT and the goings-on in this forum after literally never having posted on Arf previously? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By peachy: Originally Posted By Not_Wop: I want everyone to know that I'm gonna really enjoy coming back to this thread in a month. Is that when you plan to be forthright about why you are so emotionally invested in CAT and the goings-on in this forum after literally never having posted on Arf previously? Yes. I am not not have I ever been an employee of CAT. I found the way that this site treated them to be appalling and quite the opposite of how people like Griffian Armament are treated. I have no professional relationship to CAT but I look forward to posting screenshots of posts on this thread and the previous one and watching people eat their words. As for technical info it appears that none of the CAT muzzle devices will be long enough for p/w if anyone here is concerned about that. |
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Sadly they won't share anything either on Reddit except calling people clowns for calling them out on their insane claims and "flash bang" explanations:
https://www.reddit.com/user/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/qa/ I would that link above is our best chance to find any info out right now other than 2nd grade meme posts on IG ... |
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This is the second new DMLS inconel can I've seen this week.
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Originally Posted By thehun06: Sadly they won't share anything either on Reddit except calling people clowns for calling them out on their insane claims and "flash bang" explanations: https://www.reddit.com/user/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/qa/ I would that link above is our best chance to find any info out right now other than 2nd grade meme posts on IG ... View Quote Or, hear me out, this is radical. Maybe we wait until the website is released 🤯 |
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: Or, hear me out, this is radical. Maybe we wait until the website is released 🤯 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Not_Wop: Originally Posted By thehun06: Sadly they won't share anything either on Reddit except calling people clowns for calling them out on their insane claims and "flash bang" explanations: https://www.reddit.com/user/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/qa/ I would that link above is our best chance to find any info out right now other than 2nd grade meme posts on IG ... Or, hear me out, this is radical. Maybe we wait until the website is released 🤯 Post radical data or stop. This is tech. Make a GD thread if you want to talk nonsense like this |
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: I am not not have I ever been an employee of CAT. View Quote I believe you indicated that previously. I’m asking what your relationship with CAT is, not what it is not. ETA: There is nothing wrong with having a relationship with them, I just like to understand where information is coming from. |
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Originally Posted By peachy: I believe you indicated that previously. I’m asking what your relationship with CAT is, not what it is not. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By peachy: Originally Posted By Not_Wop: I am not not have I ever been an employee of CAT. I believe you indicated that previously. I’m asking what your relationship with CAT is, not what it is not. Oh, I have a meme page on Instagram (the best one actually) and I made memes about them. Thats my "relationship" with CAT. |
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Post radical data or stop. This is tech. Make a GD thread if you want to talk nonsense like this View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: Originally Posted By Not_Wop: Originally Posted By thehun06: Sadly they won't share anything either on Reddit except calling people clowns for calling them out on their insane claims and "flash bang" explanations: https://www.reddit.com/user/the_CAT_official/comments/15mc2yq/qa/ I would that link above is our best chance to find any info out right now other than 2nd grade meme posts on IG ... Or, hear me out, this is radical. Maybe we wait until the website is released 🤯 Post radical data or stop. This is tech. Make a GD thread if you want to talk nonsense like this The only people with that data right now are CAT employees and Pew Science. Both can be reached on Instagram and reddit. |
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Originally Posted By Not_Wop: Oh, I have a meme page on Instagram (the best one actually) and I made memes about them. Thats my "relationship" with CAT. View Quote Ok, but your posts about people eating their words suggest you know information about CAT that has yet to be made public. If that’s correct, do you mind sharing how you came to know that information? |
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Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/470854/Screenshot_20230810-104149_Chrome_jpg-2914757.JPG You made a claim. Support it View Quote I was saying that it would be radical for the good people of arfcom to wait until a company makes a website instead of speculating and using chatgpt to try and figure things out. I'm right. |
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