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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2024 7:04:07 PM EDT
Just want to make sure I'm tracking on the process, this is my first.
I submitted an Eform 1 and it was approved. Does the ATF send the CLEO notification to them, or is it incumbent on the submitter (me) to do so? If it's my obligation, do I need to send the entire approved form 1, or just the CLEO page with their name/address info on it? |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 7:25:46 PM EDT
[#1]
It's incumbent upon you to do so, but you're supposed to notify the CLEO right after you submit, not after you've been approved. At this point, I'd suggest just sending in the CLEO copy of the Submitted version of the form, which you should have received via email once your Form 1 was accepted.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2024 7:57:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: It's incumbent upon you to do so, but you're supposed to notify the CLEO right after you submit, not after you've been approved. At this point, I'd suggest just sending in the CLEO copy of the Submitted version of the form, which you should have received via email once your Form 1 was accepted. Gotcha, I just submitted Friday and have been traveling since. Thanks for the heads up! |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 8:16:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Gotcha, I just submitted Friday and have been traveling since. Thanks for the heads up! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Originally Posted By grondike: It's incumbent upon you to do so, but you're supposed to notify the CLEO right after you submit, not after you've been approved. At this point, I'd suggest just sending in the CLEO copy of the Submitted version of the form, which you should have received via email once your Form 1 was accepted. Gotcha, I just submitted Friday and have been traveling since. Thanks for the heads up! |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 8:25:07 PM EDT
[#4]
I include a note on a post-it stating this letter has no retention requirements and up to their discretion to discard as they see fit.
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Posted: 5/7/2024 10:49:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TGWLDR]
[#5]
Disregard.
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USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:44:24 AM EDT
[#6]
I've sent mine months later when I got around to it. With the new turnaround times, I would do it sooner rather than later.
The State Police used to get mad at me, sometimes send them back. They haven't for the last few years, though. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 9:08:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gt3stuntman]
[#7]
I just email my local sheriff. They never write back, but I assume they’ve been notified. Not going to waste paper or postage if they aren’t specific about the method of notification.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 5:01:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated.
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Posted: 5/8/2024 5:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. Why on Earth did you go in person at all? There is no upside to an LEO conversation on this topic. Send them a letter. Scan a .pdf of the letter, and the stamped envelope for your records. Drop it off in the mail and you're done. I suppose a scanned email might work, and be even easier today - as it might just get purged by their spam-bot. Donno. Not your problem, and nobody cares. It's an archaic requirement from a former world where people did records by paper. If someone wants to know who has what, the digital cloud systems they have now will tell them. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:17:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. Oof. This is why I hate the notification requirement. It serves no purpose other than to raise your hand for some idiot, who knows nothing about this, to get riled up and start poking around. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. Sounds like a perfect candidate to work the counter at your LGS. 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:18:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Why on Earth did you go in person at all? There is no upside to an LEO conversation on this topic. Send them a letter. Scan a .pdf of the letter, and the stamped envelope for your records. Drop it off in the mail and you're done. I suppose a scanned email might work, and be even easier today - as it might just get purged by their spam-bot. Donno. Not your problem, and nobody cares. It's an archaic requirement from a former world where people did records by paper. If someone wants to know who has what, the digital cloud systems they have now will tell them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. Why on Earth did you go in person at all? There is no upside to an LEO conversation on this topic. Send them a letter. Scan a .pdf of the letter, and the stamped envelope for your records. Drop it off in the mail and you're done. I suppose a scanned email might work, and be even easier today - as it might just get purged by their spam-bot. Donno. Not your problem, and nobody cares. It's an archaic requirement from a former world where people did records by paper. If someone wants to know who has what, the digital cloud systems they have now will tell them. Definitely lesson learned on this one. I anticipated not being the first person to submit a form 1 here, but maybe I'm wrong. I work with this agency from time to time (firefighter) and expected a different experience. Definitely not the case. The next one will be mailed and that's that. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:19:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Sounds like a perfect candidate to work the counter at your LGS. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Originally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. Sounds like a perfect candidate to work the counter at your LGS. Sadly accurate! |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:36:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Oof. This is why I hate the notification requirement. It serves no purpose other than to raise your hand for some idiot, who knows nothing about this, to get riled up and start poking around. At least it’s not CLEO *approval* anymore. That’s why I went the trust route. Don’t need another person telling me what I can or can’t do. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:41:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gt3stuntman: At least it’s not CLEO *approval* anymore. That’s why I went the trust route. Don’t need another person telling me what I can or can’t do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gt3stuntman: Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Oof. This is why I hate the notification requirement. It serves no purpose other than to raise your hand for some idiot, who knows nothing about this, to get riled up and start poking around. At least it’s not CLEO *approval* anymore. That’s why I went the trust route. Don’t need another person telling me what I can or can’t do. Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:56:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. Oh yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it now. Especially with how slow they’re approving trust-based eForms now. I got in before 41F when it was the easier option, and got around all the fingerprint, photo and sign-off stuff. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:02:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Whiskeygunner: Dropped it off today, what an unique experience that was. The "officer" who took it from me didn't know what the form was, but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry. When I stated there was no entry or action required on it, it's just a notification, he got quite defensive. He then told me I would be facing a 25 year felony if I was caught in possession of my M203 that the ATF approved. Definitely not the experience I had anticipated. The part that gives me pause is ‘but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry I didn’t think local keo kept track of that type of data - silly me i suppose |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:34:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chaas67: The part that gives me pause is ‘but said he would give it to the officer who handles them for entry I didn’t think local keo kept track of that type of data - silly me i suppose I'm in Illinois. I assume they giggle with glee as they add all that data to whatever database they can. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 5:49:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. $25 bucks and exactly the same amount of paperwork for a Single Shot Trust vs Individuual. Hardly a PITA and the reason the overwhelming majority of my NFA customers use it. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 5:52:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gt3stuntman: Oh yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it now. Especially with how slow they’re approving trust-based eForms now. I got in before 41F when it was the easier option, and got around all the fingerprint, photo and sign-off stuff. I've seen little difference in Individual vs Single Shot since January. Individual vs Traditional Trusts with multiple RP's? No question they are taking longer. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:04:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: $25 bucks and exactly the same amount of paperwork for a Single Shot Trust vs Individuual. Hardly a PITA and the reason the overwhelming majority of my NFA customers use it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. $25 bucks and exactly the same amount of paperwork for a Single Shot Trust vs Individuual. Hardly a PITA and the reason the overwhelming majority of my NFA customers use it. To each their own. I personally see no advantage and the complication of adding an additional 3rd legal entity, by going trust route, in my world. For those who have multiple people who want and will use independant access, that's another matter. I don't know anyone on a trust who actually does that - but some do I'm sure. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 8:54:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: I've seen little difference in Individual vs Single Shot since January. Individual vs Traditional Trusts with multiple RP's? No question they are taking longer. How does Single Shot differ from Traditional? Some pre-approved wording hashed out between ATF and Silencer Shop? I’m the only RP on my trust. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 11:21:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gt3stuntman: How does Single Shot differ from Traditional? Some pre-approved wording hashed out between ATF and Silencer Shop? I’m the only RP on my trust. The trust language is nearly identical. The difference is price and how you go about adding members to your trust. If you are the only RP on your existing trust then it is no different. "Traditional" NFA trusts often have multiple members. Meaning everyone on that trust at the time of submission that is considered a "responsible person" must submit fingerprints, photo, RP questionnaire and pass the FBI background check. The more RP's on the trust increases processing time and the likelihood that someone gets delayed or denied and the Form denied. A "Single Shot" trust is a trust submitted for one firearm and with only one RP. After approval you can add as many members to that trust as desired....no photos/prints/etc, no background checks, no notification to ATF. Its just a trust with one RP. Comparison of trusts |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:04:55 PM EDT
[#24]
I gotcha. Sounds like I need to reach out to ATF and ask what gives for my currently pending eForm 4.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:04:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: To each their own. I personally see no advantage and the complication of adding an additional 3rd legal entity, by going trust route, in my world. For those who have multiple people who want and will use independant access, that's another matter. I don't know anyone on a trust who actually does that - but some do I'm sure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. $25 bucks and exactly the same amount of paperwork for a Single Shot Trust vs Individuual. Hardly a PITA and the reason the overwhelming majority of my NFA customers use it. To each their own. I personally see no advantage and the complication of adding an additional 3rd legal entity, by going trust route, in my world. For those who have multiple people who want and will use independant access, that's another matter. I don't know anyone on a trust who actually does that - but some do I'm sure. I agree. I thought back over the previous 20 years, and if a trust vs individual would have been of any benefit to me (changes in laws notwithstanding), and the answer is "no." Looking forward to the next 20+ years, I considered if I anticipate any changes where a trust would suddenly be more beneficial, and the answer is "no." With that in mind, I filed as an individual and bought ammo with the money I saved...and very likely received approval sooner than I would have otherwise. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:49:26 PM EDT
[#26]
@Whiskeygunner what city are you in?
I'm in Westland. I mail my Form 1s CLEO copy in to the PD addressed to the Police chief with a copy of the RI-60 registering them as pistols (nicely cute out with scrapbook boarder scissors) and I'm curious what they think of me. Had an issue with the lady at the front counter of the PD 18 years ago when I moved up here. Went to pick up the Pistol Purchase forms to register my handguns that I moved here with. When she handed me the forms she then told me to "go home and fill them out". I asked her why I needed to go home. She said I would be breaking the law to be in possession of non-registered handguns without the purchase permits. Ug..... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:13:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 243savage: @Whiskeygunner what city are you in? I'm in Westland. I mail my Form 1s CLEO copy in to the PD addressed to the Police chief with a copy of the RI-60 registering them as pistols (nicely cute out with scrapbook boarder scissors) and I'm curious what they think of me. Had an issue with the lady at the front counter of the PD 18 years ago when I moved up here. Went to pick up the Pistol Purchase forms to register my handguns that I moved here with. When she handed me the forms she then told me to "go home and fill them out". I asked her why I needed to go home. She said I would be breaking the law to be in possession of non-registered handguns without the purchase permits. Ug..... @243savage, I'm in Lenawee County. Most of the officers in our local PD are former Wayne County officers; that's where Mr. personality himself came from in the above discourse. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 6:23:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: masterofpew]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: I've seen little difference in Individual vs Single Shot since January. Individual vs Traditional Trusts with multiple RP's? No question they are taking longer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By gt3stuntman: Oh yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it now. Especially with how slow they’re approving trust-based eForms now. I got in before 41F when it was the easier option, and got around all the fingerprint, photo and sign-off stuff. I've seen little difference in Individual vs Single Shot since January. Individual vs Traditional Trusts with multiple RP's? No question they are taking longer. I beg to differ. Still waiting on a JK Armament VERSAX 12 on a SS Single Shot trust that was certified early June(I'm the sole responsible person on trust). Purchased a OCL Polonium and Titanium 22 plus a TBAC 30cal Ultra 9 gen 2 last Friday from Capitol Armory. From purchase to approval was 7 days on a individual eForm 4 filing. All 3 are approved within 72 hours of submission 
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:36:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DogtownTom]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By masterofpew: I beg to differ. Still waiting on a JK Armament VERSAX 12 on a SS Single Shot trust that was certified early June(I'm the sole responsible person on trust). Purchased a OCL Polonium and Titanium 22 plus a TBAC 30cal Ultra 9 gen 2 last Friday from Capitol Armory. From purchase to approval was 7 days on a individual eForm 4 filing. All 3 are approved within 72 hours of submission Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By masterofpew: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By gt3stuntman: Oh yeah, I wouldn’t recommend it now. Especially with how slow they’re approving trust-based eForms now. I got in before 41F when it was the easier option, and got around all the fingerprint, photo and sign-off stuff. I've seen little difference in Individual vs Single Shot since January. Individual vs Traditional Trusts with multiple RP's? No question they are taking longer. I beg to differ. Still waiting on a JK Armament VERSAX 12 on a SS Single Shot trust that was certified early June(I'm the sole responsible person on trust). Purchased a OCL Polonium and Titanium 22 plus a TBAC 30cal Ultra 9 gen 2 last Friday from Capitol Armory. From purchase to approval was 7 days on a individual eForm 4 filing. All 3 are approved within 72 hours of submission Pretty sure my sample size is a smidge more.  I had a 64 hour Individual and a 77 hour Single Shot Trust just yesterday. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:42:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Pretty sure my sample size is a smidge more. I had a 64 hour Individual and a 77 hour Single Shot Trust just yesterday. I'm still waiting on a single RP trust form 1 from 29 May. |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 1:22:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Why on Earth did you go in person at all? There is no upside to an LEO conversation on this topic. Send them a letter. Scan a .pdf of the letter, and the stamped envelope for your records. Drop it off in the mail and you're done. I suppose a scanned email might work, and be even easier today - as it might just get purged by their spam-bot. Donno. Not your problem, and nobody cares. It's an archaic requirement from a former world where people did records by paper. If someone wants to know who has what, the digital cloud systems they have now will tell them. I would not even go that far. Just drop it in the mail and you are done. |
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Posted: 9/17/2024 5:29:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WVUSIG: I would not even go that far. Just drop it in the mail and you are done. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WVUSIG: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Why on Earth did you go in person at all? There is no upside to an LEO conversation on this topic. Send them a letter. Scan a .pdf of the letter, and the stamped envelope for your records. Drop it off in the mail and you're done. I suppose a scanned email might work, and be even easier today - as it might just get purged by their spam-bot. Donno. Not your problem, and nobody cares. It's an archaic requirement from a former world where people did records by paper. If someone wants to know who has what, the digital cloud systems they have now will tell them. I would not even go that far. Just drop it in the mail and you are done. |
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Posted: 9/22/2024 10:14:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Doesn't work that way anymore. Trust route today IMHO is more of a PITA and cost, today, than it's worth for most people, unless they have family members who also need independant access (and actually do). JMHO - and not a popular one even. |
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Posted: 9/23/2024 8:16:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: I didn't bother with a trust. When I croak my wife can have someone submit the paperwork to the atf so she can get my basically worthless silencers and SBRs in her name. Of course she'll probably forget and the atf will eventually figure out I'm dead (?) and she'll abandon the now illegal valueless nfa stuff to the Feds when they catch up with her. |
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