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Posted: 1/18/2024 12:02:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
Is there anything that's cheap anymore? What's the cheapest currently available belt fed rifle in the US market?
1919A4 kits I think were the cheapest route before they dried up, but I'm not into building kits ( beyond reading about it online) so I may have missed out on some current option. I've recently seen some Daewoo |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 1:24:59 AM EDT
[#1]
I think you're right that 1919's are going to be the cheapest right now. They seem to run about $3500-5K depending upon builder, accessories, kit type, etc.
I didn't even know what an "MG-47" was - had to google it. A 3D printed amalgam of a belt-fed AK that uses an AR FCG or something? Still not entirely sure what it is. |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 2:33:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: I think you're right that 1919's are going to be the cheapest right now. They seem to run about $3500-5K depending upon builder, accessories, kit type, etc. I didn't even know what an "MG-47" was - had to google it. A 3D printed amalgam of a belt-fed AK that uses an AR FCG or something? Still not entirely sure what it is. There are steel receiver mg-47s - upside down ak barrel/ trunnion/gas system based system. Been around for 10+ years at least http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47a/mg47a.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47b/mg47b.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47c/mg47c.htm http://dave2.freeshell.org/tech1/MG-47/mg47d/mg47d.htm |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 12:15:23 PM EDT
[#3]
There is a shrike/MCR clone coming to market at half the price of the current MCR. Also has some better materials like CHF barrels and a ISO gloss bolt.
No it's not the mysterious Turkish clone. It's 100% America made and parts are in production |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: There is a shrike/MCR clone coming to market at half the price of the current MCR. Also has some better materials like CHF barrels and a ISO gloss bolt. No it's not the mysterious Turkish clone. It's 100% America made and parts are in production Anymore info on who's making it? I have read Ares/Fightlite had a patent that prevented competition in the beltfeds AR upper market, I've assumed that was why the Turkish beltfed uppers weren't imported, but haven't researched the patents myself |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 1:50:12 PM EDT
[#5]
https://www.cryostructure.com/product/mcr-cloned-belt-fed-upper-receiver/
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Posted: 1/18/2024 2:41:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhoule: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/mcr-cloned-belt-fed-upper-receiver/ Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 3:09:42 PM EDT
[#7]
The link I sent is their not released yet upper. I have no more details other than what they have on their website.
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Posted: 1/18/2024 3:17:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhoule: The link I sent is their not released yet upper. I have no more details other than what they have on their website. At $3300 that looks like it's about the cheapest commercially produced belt fed, assuming its released. I saw that Cryo posted on reddit "in the next 90 days" a couple of weeks ago in reference to their upper. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 3:54:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Thinking of doing a group buy at 3100
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Posted: 1/18/2024 4:15:59 PM EDT
[#10]
What does the upper even look like? No pic at the URL above.
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Posted: 1/18/2024 5:00:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: What does the upper even look like? No pic at the URL above. My best WAG is a Shrike upper that doesnt accept mags. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 7:41:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: My best WAG is a Shrike upper that doesnt accept mags. It'll accept mags if you use a standard Lower. It's a direct copy of the shrike with minor material upgrades |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 8:06:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Get that wiselite rpd in the EE! its REDUCED to $4800 , maybe start a striker approved fundraiser?
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Posted: 1/18/2024 8:26:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: It'll accept mags if you use a standard Lower. It's a direct copy of the shrike with minor material upgrades Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: Originally Posted By NWRed: My best WAG is a Shrike upper that doesnt accept mags. It'll accept mags if you use a standard Lower. It's a direct copy of the shrike with minor material upgrades Licensed copy ? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 8:36:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: Licensed copy ? Design patents are only good for 15 years. The shrike is 22 or 23 years old |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: Design patents are only good for 15 years. The shrike is 22 or 23 years old I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:07:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SGT-Fish]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. Utility patents are 20year. But we should be past that too. I'm looking into it but I'm sure Paul wouldn't invest millions into this project without doing his due diligence. |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:07:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phillbilly: Get that wiselite rpd in the EE! its REDUCED to $4800 , maybe start a striker approved fundraiser? I thinking I'd gladly trade my 1919A4 for an RPD. Had I found an RPD at that price instead of the 1919 I'd probably have gone that route. Cheapest RPD Ive seen in awhile, I was too short sighted to buy one when they were affordable |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:07:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jtb33]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: I always thought it was 20 years for all patents but I know nothing about patents, just learned this week there's a maintenance fee to hold onto your utility patent. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:16:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SGT-Fish]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: Pretty sure it is 20 years. The Benelli M4 was designed in 1998 and only recently; 2018 or 2019, did the M4 clones start coming out using the same ARGO system. 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away |
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:19:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
[#21]
Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Utility patents are 20year. But we should be past that too. I'm looking into it but I'm sure Paul wouldn't invest millions into this project without doing his due diligence. Originally Posted By jtb33: Pretty sure it is 20 years. The Benelli M4 was designed in 1998 and only recently; 2018 or 2019, did the M4 clones start coming out using the same ARGO system. Looks like Utility patents are 20 ( how it works) and Design patents are 15 ( how it looks), which we've passed 20 on at least 2 of the patents related to the Shrike upper. He still has a patent for the bolt carrier it appears : https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110030260A1/en?inventor=Geoffrey+A.+Herring&sort=new I didnt realize the 249 dovetail cut receiver was a Geoff Herring invention https://patents.google.com/patent/US7428795B2/en?inventor=Geoffrey+A.+Herring&sort=new 
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Posted: 1/18/2024 9:31:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away He's got 8 or 11 patents, I think it may be the middle initial thats changing the search results https://patents.google.com/patent/US7040213B2/en?inventor=Geoffrey+Herring&oq=Geoffrey+Herring I emailed the Turks after talking to Vengarr on the phone about the uppers. The Turks said they had a sole distribution deal with a US distributor - shawnee outdoor llc IIRC - indoor shooting range in OK or a lawn mower sales place.....Turks never replied when I asked for contact info. ETA: CANER ALP Wed, May 25, 2022, 4:49 AM to [email protected], me System Defence has an exclusive importer in USA. if you interested with our products. You should contact with SHAWNEE OUTDOOR LLC Colt -->Ceiner-->Valkyrie Armament-->Slidefire , and they went out of business/bankruptcy in 2018 IIRC. One of the Slidefire's just recently sold on gunbroker (auction ended with no bids and wasn't relisted ) and then showed up in a reddit post by the new owner a week later. I found it on reddit and worked backwards to find the old auction. It was another non Colt 6920 built gun so I'm assuming it was built after the bankruptcy from parts and not assembled by VA or Slidefire. ETA: Anyone going to shotshow?  Attached File |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2024 11:16:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I'll ask Nick Chen if he is able to stop by their booth and get some details.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:22:50 PM EDT
[#24]
We are working on the new version of our 9mm beltfed upper. Looking to cut chips in 4-6 weeks on the working prototype with production to follow shortly after. Our goal is to stay sub 3k
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Posted: 1/19/2024 8:46:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmBeltfed: We are working on the new version of our 9mm beltfed upper. Looking to cut chips in 4-6 weeks on the working prototype with production to follow shortly after. Our goal is to stay sub 3k @9mmBeltfed Need to come out with the 308 beltfed upper you were teasing a few years ago. For sub-$3k also 
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Posted: 1/20/2024 5:35:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: 15 year design 20 year utility Though I don't see a patent under herrings name for the shrike/MCR. Just the dedicated lower from 2006 and some of his other designs. I've actually heard that he wasn't the first one to make it. And have seen pictures of a prototype someone made years before him that looked similar. Plus tou have the old stoner/ceiner design that is a belt fed AR. The reason we never got the Turkish clones is because the company ghosted Vengarr's rep when he went to turkey to make the deal. Then vangarr passed away Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 7:38:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 |
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Posted: 1/20/2024 7:41:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: Originally Posted By Ben: Wait, WTF? He died? When was that? @Ben May of '23 https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Vengarr-is-Dead/151-2648249/?page=1 Oh man, I do remember seeing that now. Wow...totally forgot. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 1:19:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Oh man, I do remember seeing that now. Wow...totally forgot. He was a cool dude for sure |
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Posted: 1/22/2024 1:47:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Posted in the other thread. but I miss Pete too.
We talked for hours, a lot of it about these Turkish belt feds, nicest guy..... 
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Posted: 1/22/2024 3:20:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Belt Fed upper for $3300, I am interested
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: Originally Posted By jhoule: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/mcr-cloned-belt-fed-upper-receiver/ Looking at their website they're offering barrels that fit the MCR/their upper for a reasonable price compared to Fightlite barrels. If anyone orders, please @ me, i am very interested, but prioritizing to build up ammo stock as I suspect the price is gonna go up given that its an election year. Especially interested in cross compatibility with the barrels, the spares at fightlite are now stooopid expensive so I just dont buy them. Watching the upper price double during covid didn't help warm fuzzys about the company either. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 1:00:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wammel: If anyone orders, please @ me, i am very interested, but prioritizing to build up ammo stock as I suspect the price is gonna go up given that its an election year. Especially interested in cross compatibility with the barrels, the spares at fightlite are now stooopid expensive so I just dont buy them. Watching the upper price double during covid didn't help warm fuzzys about the company either. All parts should be cross compatible. Barrels definitely are as it's advertised as such. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 10:48:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Ah but "should" is not the same as "is", and I'm not sure I want to save a few hundred for a barrel that is so out of spec it may kaboom the rest. I'd also like to know the company is reliable and selling a solid product. As I've got access to an informed community I will wait and get some reviews on this one. As much as I want to buy one today
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2024 3:25:52 PM EDT
[#35]
The company has been around a while and has a great reputation. But I understand waiting to buy a new product.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2024 11:32:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: @9mmBeltfed Need to come out with the 308 beltfed upper you were teasing a few years ago. For sub-$3k also I don't know about sub 3k but probably still be reasonable for the market. Let us get our 9mm back out in the wild lol but 308 has been mentioned again. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:25:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: Utility patents are 20year. But we should be past that too. I'm looking into it but I'm sure Paul wouldn't invest millions into this project without doing his due diligence. He's not. The patents are done. Wait until the 308 |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:27:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: All parts should be cross compatible. Barrels definitely are as it's advertised as such. They will be. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 10:54:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By organdoner: He's not. The patents are done. Wait until the 308 Originally Posted By organdoner: They will be. @organdoner You have the inside scoop at Cryo? |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 9:49:32 PM EDT
[#40]
yea more info if you have it this price point is reasonable....
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Posted: 2/10/2024 9:37:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I know where there’s an RPD for $3500.
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Posted: 2/10/2024 11:52:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: I know where there’s an RPD for $3500. You're killing me!!! @cms81586 |
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Posted: 2/11/2024 12:07:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NWRed: You're killing me!!! @cms81586 @NWRed Sent you a PM with seller info if you’re serious. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 9:38:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Still nothing from Cryostructure.
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Posted: 2/18/2024 8:06:03 PM EDT
[#45]
perhaps @SGT-Fish has an update. it seems he knows the cryo-structure owner
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OK, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2024 10:47:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: okent]
[#46]
I'm in the market for a 556 upper. Was going to get an MCR next month but if there's a group buy on the one from Cryo I'm in for that.(SGT-Fish)
Just signed up for email notifications. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 11:07:21 AM EDT
[#47]
I can't even get the email notifications to work.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2024 12:30:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: I can't even get the email notifications to work. Same, gave me a message saying I was a scam response. |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 1:52:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Hey guys, I just got off the phone with Paul. If you want the lowdown, and to get on a reservation list, you need to call. He's got another product in the works that I am VERY excited about-the same belt fed upper, but in 7.62.
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Posted: 2/26/2024 2:00:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Hey guys, I just got off the phone with Paul. If you want the lowdown, and to get on a reservation list, you need to call. He's got another product in the works that I am VERY excited about-the same belt fed upper, but in 7.62. It fits on an AR10-sized lower, not an AR15-sized lower, right? I guess an MCR clone in 7.62x51 might possibly be designed to work on an AR15-sized lower if you removed the mag-feed capability. As an M16 owner, semi-auto beltfeds don't interest me as much, but if there was a way I could get a 7.62x51 beltfed upper to work on it I'd be very interested. |
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