My wobbly ass shooting bench is to blame for the less than ideal groupings. My gut feel is based on how my Tavor 7 shot off that pos bench, vs how it improved on a stable platform, getting much better groups.

It's going to be a couple of weeks until I can get more accuracy testing done, so this is what I had for now.

I thought he was talking to me lol.

Oh maybe 😂

Hahaha, it was to Odin.

I  just finished watched your video, those 50 yard groups did not look promising though.  I was seeing 4 moa groups when accounting for distance... And getting mdrx testing flashbacks.

The mdrx (first fix) mag drop fix was to remove the bar that your 308 or 223 magazine latch, put it in a vice and tap it in.

The grip storage cap is supposed to be able to be removed with a pair of thin flat screw drivers.  There are two little holes, one on either side of the grip, you slip a tool into either side and it is supposed to remove the cap.

The cycling issue sounds like a gas port hole size problem.  Which makes sense.  The port holes they used for the mdrx were largely trial and error, as we say from the many many generations in whole diamater in 4 years of mdrx.  Going to SE and changing caliber is bound to have issues as they probably haven't tested all ammo under the sun.

Interesting on thr barrel assembly indexing off the back instead of the notch.

The counter weight, we found, helps reduce the force of the mag buttons.  We have found when it breaks off it becomes super stiff.  One of the issues the mdrx has in the past.

Trigger definitely looks like a change, for me the mdrx used to be two stage more or less.  A bunch of take up and a hard wall.  Looks like thr takeup is gone and there is a lot of over travel now.  Not sure what I think of that.

Polishing stuff might help some of the grittyness, especially in the trigger.  I like 3m autopolish, doesn't even take the surface coating off.

Overall nice work!

Thanks

Ya those groups weren't good, but I know my rest and myself was the primary source of the groups opening up .

Dt has responded to my first email about the issues, so hopefully get it resolved soon.

I did end up playing with the mag catch tonight, putting a higher rate spring back there didn't increase the force to push the mag button much. So I may try a mix of doing that, and taping of the catch and the factory spring.

I dunno if that stove piping is a gas issue, I feel like it's more of a ejector/extractor issue, and possibly the bolt being too light so it has to cycle quickly.

I have since inspected the ejectors and extractor, oiled them, so I will see next range trip if that helps. I may put in an extreactor o ring as well to see if that has any effect. Maybe if I get really bored I'll whip out a bolt carrier anti bounce  weight like you see on the sabertooth to see if a little extra mass can help haha.

I appreciate the detailed video @tavorsterling, particularly the details on the internals and comparison to the Tavor 7.

Its good to see there is room to add mass to the BCG. I think DT is just overly obsessed with the platform being as modular as possible, refusing to make .308-specific parts like a heavier BCG or longer gas system because they want to advertise the conversion kits as being simple and (relatively) affordable. However, I would really have hoped they would have learned from the MDR issues by now and prize reliability over all else in their design for this new rifle. Having to buy a separate BCG with your intermediate to full power conversion kit would be well worth the cost if it means a reliable and smoother cycling weapon.

The mag dropping is a real bad sign to me. Given that this was an issue on the MDR, which then got resolved, you would think that whatever QC or engineering steps are required to prevent that issue would be well known to DT and be accounted for in the tooling or assembly process. I bet they will be able to fix it but it just shows a poor commitment to QC in my opinion. Really not acceptable at the price point of this rifle, and especially when their reputation has already been dragged through the mud for exactly this sort of thing.

Definitely agree that it looks like it SHOULD be the overall best bullpup on the market, and certainly the best .308, if they could just iron out these issues, both big and small.

Just saw this review of the Wolverine on youtube. Looks like the Wolverine is having some QC issues with the mags self ejecting and stove pipes. What ever happened to the "extreme reliability" that Desert Tech claimed? Very disappointed. Looks like I won't be buying the Wolverine after all. Or atleast not for several years.

Well this isn't off to the best start.

Yea Sterling posted that here on the 25th (Page 1 lol).
So far its just him and me for the beta testers posting vids.. The self ejecting magazine issue is not great as thats a problem that was solved in the MDRX..

Sounds like the WLVRN/MDR3 has the reliability and QC of a Gen 1 MDR.


Good thing it has a lifetime warranty, which should be good for 3-5 years when the next version comes out.

TO be fair...Sample size of 1.. Maybe the others are not having these issues.

Even if it's a sample size of one, it's an egregious issue. Any quality AR is going to run fine out of the box.

See thats where I think the reality of what you say is different.

The AR has been around since the 1960's..It also has Several dozen companies (Large and Small) that either outright make the rifle or parts for it.
But even with that many folks making AR's you still can get those that don't run out of the box..
Hops experience with the Rugar SFAR would be my example (Another 308 rifle).
308s (Bullpup or otherwise) seem to be tougher to make work during an initial start up of a firearm.

The Wlvrn is made by 1 company..and not a large one at tha..with some interesting QC issues that have appeared in past models (and one new one around the front pin on mine).

These 308 Wlvrns have got to be the first 100 or so and so far only 1 person has had the dropping mags issue..Others thus far have not mentioned this issue.
(Theres at least a few others on the facebook page with one,they have reported an issue).
Also..Lemons happen..So..lets hope this is just a "one off" and not a pattern.

I agree with Odin here, I've had other 308 guns, like ones based on the AR15 just not run that great. Maybe I'm coping since I spend nearly 3k on this lol. Everyone makes a lemon, the real question is how DT handles it and how it runs after they look at it. Mine is going back this week to them, and my serial is 1070, so if they started at 1000, mine is one of the first 100. Normally I don't buy first runs of guns, but I couldn't wait.

I was able to squeeze out some more groups before I send my 308 Wlvrn back. Shooting prone from a mostly comfortable  position, pretty stable rest/bags, had some slight movement, and with my Credo 1-6x, oss 762ti.

The 168gr ammo is of unknown manufacture. Got a bunch of it really cheap in bulk, and is in lake city brass, so its all I had for this trip for heavier ammo.

Best group was 1.25" worse 3.25". Gun was warm for shooting some other ammo before, and didn't really let it cool down between groups. No scope adjustments was made in the groups. I'm not the best shooter so It could be better. I had 5 rounds left and did one unsuppressed, and got 1.5" , but with a poi shift to the right.

Nosler 110 varmit was a box I happened to have, so I shot that as well, 1.5-2.5" Suppressed with that. Poi shift was to the left, didn't adjust scope for those groups; although the left most group, I did aim at the right corner of the diamond so it would stay on paper.

-Edited: (I may end up buying a lead sled or something similar for when I get it back from DT.)
-doing some research, seems most recommend against this. So I'll probably get some more bags/bipod to see what options work bets.

https://imgur.com/a/rlcG5Ru

What do folks say against a led sled?

I like to use a front bipod and a rear squeeze bag.  It works quite well.

https://www.altusshooting.com/products/armageddon-gear-squishy-rear-bag

I recommend looking for a bipod with 45 degree detentes for shooting off a bench as the minimum position on a lot of bullpups is too high.

I also QD my bipod to the handguard.

From what I been seeing, and vortex nation did a 10 minute video on it, is because your gun isn't recoiling naturally, instead hitting basically a fixed wall, it alters the recoil, and harmonics of the whole gun system, sometimes being extra hard on components, causing them to loosen or break when they normally wouldn't, and not giving a true zero or groups that are not representative of the gun.

So I'm gonna stick with bags and rest for now. When I get my Wlvrn back I'll probably also try a bipod on the front instead of a plain rest. Maybe some more bags.

Is that even real?  The reason the MDRx doesn't always retain a mag is a dimension issue of they cut they retention tab area to a really tight tolerance that not every mag works with.  Fix is to just slightly adjust retention tab engagement , or slightly adjust the mag - by a couple thou.  I suggest adjusting the $20 mag, personally.  Spring tension has almost nothing to do with it.  It's an easy test to see if you are going to have problems - does the retention tab go fully flush when the mag is locked, in, or does it not?  You can feel it on the outside of the reciever where it pops out to acutate.  It can go kind of sort of flush, a bit, which will "hold" the mag for a the first shot and then drop it.  If yours is doing that, adjustments are needed - and the spring ain't it; either way.  In fact, if all DT did, was put in a heavier spring, they probably didn't fix that persons problem with that persons magazine.  I hope they already know that and I'm not teaching them this.

And back to the whole tone of the exchange -  even if the customer did cut the spring, just eye-roll and replace the 10 cent spring, who cares?   That exchange just looks random and petty.  At the least, just say "There was something wrong with the spring, item replaced and being returned"  Chastising customer, even stupid customer who did cut the spring (which I doubt is even true); is dumb when it's a $2600/gun customer.  You say "yes sir, looks like we found the problem.  Would you like a free coaster or a hat?"  Come on guys, look to PSA and Josiah. Want to still be here 5 years from now?  Follow their lead, and bend over for grouchy customers who are in the public eye - even the unreasonable ones.

Donno, my own customer service with DT has actually been pretty stellar the couple times I've used them.  But then, I don't give them shit either when I talk to them.

its an actual comment unfortunately.

Update I posted on reddit copy and pasted here:

Dropped the rifle off again with them. They were friendly and professional and we talked about my concerns. They showed me the offending spring compared to a correct spring. It had about 1/2" or so missing. While I did not have a microscope, in my opinion it look fractured, not cut.

It looked like this: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Appearance-of-spring-fracture-and-cracks_fig1_228818294

Not cut ends like you typically see like what is shown is this video https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/rwjdxi/closeup_of_cutting_different_materials_in/

Not sure, either it was defective spring from the spring factory, or it broke when it was installed/removed an the small end piece does as dropped springs do, and disappeared into Narnia. A very possible honest mistake and probably a once in a million chances something like this happens.

This, remind you was not the only issue I experienced, and they are working on those issues as well and seemed genuinely concerned about the issues and wanting to make it right. I'm confident the issues will be resolved and I'll have a great shooting WLVRN.

Once I get the rifle back, I will be doing a part 2 video as promised, and I will be obviously doing 25 round mag tests, reliability tests, and some more accuracy tests.

Looking forward to it!