User Panel
Posted: 2/21/2024 5:45:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rusty_Carbine]
Hi folks. I have spoken with the owner of a local gun store and range about possible acquisition of the business over the next few years.
This business is a gun shop that includes a classroom, decent inventory, and a ventilated 8-bay indoor range. My question is, in pursuit of valuing the business, what information and questions would you be asking for? I have good working knowledge of small arms, can sell, and have trained shooters before. But that doesn't begin to cover the knowledge needed to think about pursuing this. I have run my own small business profitably in the past, but am currently W-2. Insurance, inventory, supply, distributor relations etc. So, to those of you who run a brick and mortar store, what advice do you have? And what are some things I need to gather facts about as the conversation evolves? I have no "pie in the sky" delusions about how simple and fun the process will be. I'm just looking for facts to better understand if this is something I will pursue. Thanks in advance. |
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:"We have clearance, Clarence." "Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?"
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First and foremost, DON'T DO IT! The way you make a million dollars in the gun industry is to start with three million (It use to be two million). However, if you are headed down that road, here are a couple of things I would look at.
1- Have them open their books to you to see what the profitably of the business is. Due to the internet, there is very little profit in guns, ammo and accessories. IF the range is popular that is where most likely your money will come from that. 2- You will never find anyone that will run your place as well as you can. Meaning don't have a manager, floor manager, shift leader, etc. they will do the very minimum. 3- Don't get a partner. Fuck that guy! 4- See what dealer relationships they have. If they get all of their stuff from one vendor, then they could be on credit hold, or at the worst black balled with the major vendors. If all they use is Davidson's then ask questions. Again, I would highly recommend steering clear of the Gunshop business, like you a syphilis infected whore house. But this is just my opinion. |
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when i was just a baby, my momma told me "son, always be a good boy dont ever play with guns"....
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Don't let the join date fool you... here since '97
VA, USA
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Review the books for the last 5 years.
Any competition in the area? Why is he selling? |
www.HansohnBrothers.com
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One of my buddies must think business is pretty good.
He's had one store for 15+ years and last year opened a second and just secured a building for a 3rd.... Each about 30-45 mins apart... Myself, as much as I love guns and would live to sell them if it'd pay the bills, o could not deal with the regulations, the ATF just looking for a reason to shoot your shop dog and the never ending attacks on the 2nd by the left and some of the right... The thought of Tuesday everything is all good, Wednesday most of your inventory is illegal, is too much for me.. |
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LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: ""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply."" |
Does the current owner operate as a corporation or LLC?
What’s the nearest big city? Talk to transaction lawyer about drafting the sales documents. They will charge a ton, but should be worth it. This is no time for a handshake deal. |
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Review the books for the last 5 years. Any competition in the area? Why is he selling? View Quote I intend to sit down with him, before making any decisions, and review the books. I have been considering "working for free" on my days off prior to making any decisions. I figure that in order to give the attention needed, this would allow me more time with him to see the backend of the business and gain more info and wisdom. There are a couple other local gun dealers, but nobody else with a range or education. He is selling because he is tired. He is nearing his eighties and ready. |
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:"We have clearance, Clarence." "Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?"
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Originally Posted By JWnTN: Does the current owner operate as a corporation or LLC? What's the nearest big city? Talk to transaction lawyer about drafting the sales documents. They will charge a ton, but should be worth it. This is no time for a handshake deal. View Quote Agreed on all. Located in a county of about 300k. I have no tendency to pinch pennies when it comes to outsourcing legal work when it comes to business. |
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:"We have clearance, Clarence." "Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?"
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I certainly appreciate everyone taking the time to be helpful.
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:"We have clearance, Clarence." "Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?"
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The "working for free" part is a good idea. Get an idea of the traffic flow through the shop, the quality and type of customers, and the kind of sales he is getting.
Best of luck. |
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Originally Posted By Rusty_Carbine: Hi folks. I have spoken with the owner of a local gun store and range about possible acquisition of the business over the next few years. View Quote <----home based FFL for fifteen years. I get approached or questioned regularly why I dont open a brick and mortar. The main reason is I'm a teacher and love teaching, my gun biz is a side gig. Over the last fifteen years I've learned a lot from this subforum and this topic comes up fairly often. More often than not, the person posting "I think I'm going to open a gun store" has no business plan, no idea what the gun business is like, what margins on new and used guns are and no knowledge of how distributors allocate product. Despite warnings, some dove headfirst into a tiny market, were under capitized, little knowledge of ATF regs and even less knowledge of running a small business. I don't mean to discourage you, but just be aware that the firearms market isn't the cash cow many think it is. This business is a gun shop that includes a classroom, decent inventory, and a ventilated 8-bay indoor range. View Quote "Inventory" scares me. If he has inventory why hasn't it sold? I would be more interested if he had bare shelves. Guns in the display case are a liability in more ways than one. He will want to sell off that inventory to you at his cost. If he has a stockroom full of Mossberg 715T's (a dog), $150 Turkish shotguns, Jennings/Davis/Lorcin/etc junk guns........pass or tell him you'll auction those guns and give him a percentage. My question is, in pursuit of valuing the business, what information and questions would you be asking for? View Quote I would want to see his business records, examine his inventory closely, investigate whether I could lease property and build my own shop/range for less. How many people use that range each day/week/month? If its packed eight hours a day you need more lanes. What is the population within a twenty minute drive? If its 10,000 you have a hobby. Where I am there are 2.5 million people within a twenty mile radius. That many people means competitors.....lots of competitors. I have good working knowledge of small arms, can sell, and have trained shooters before. But that doesn't begin to cover the knowledge needed to think about pursuing this. I have run my own small business profitably in the past, but am currently W-2. Insurance, inventory, supply, distributor relations etc. View Quote You are already ahead of the game. So, to those of you who run a brick and mortar store, what advice do you have? And what are some things I need to gather facts about as the conversation evolves? I have no "pie in the sky" delusions about how simple and fun the process will be. I'm just looking for facts to better understand if this is something I will pursue. Thanks in advance. View Quote I would research the hell out of the local market. Your expertise seems to be in training, so the range will help that. But you can rent ranges. Remember, if this existing gun shop is a great deal......someone would already be making him offers. If they haven't, there's a reason. |
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Remember, if this existing gun shop is a great deal......someone would already be making him offers. If they haven't, there's a reason. View Quote While I agree with this concept, I have also seen a lot of successful businesses be bought from old guy for a good deal, only because the buyer asked them if they'd sell. A guy local to me and on this forum is famous for buying businesses and properties (and has a yt channel), lots of people get mad when he buys a car wash or laundromat for a good price and makes profit, because they all say they would have paid more. But the difference is that he called the owner and asked them if they'd sell. So has the gunshop been advertised for sale? Or do you have a personal or past business relationship with the current owner? |
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I’d also learn all I could about the operation of the range itself. Who built the trap & ventilation? What is the usage rate? Steel trap? Rubber trap?
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Don't let the join date fool you... here since '97
VA, USA
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: "Inventory" scares me. If he has inventory why hasn't it sold? I would be more interested if he had bare shelves. Guns in the display case are a liability in more ways than one. He will want to sell off that inventory to you at his cost. If he has a stockroom full of Mossberg 715T's (a dog), $150 Turkish shotguns, Jennings/Davis/Lorcin/etc junk guns........pass or tell him you'll auction those guns and give him a percentage. View Quote |
www.HansohnBrothers.com
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Ask him how many NICS trace requests he gets in a year. Then ask the average time from sale to trace.
If he's constantly on ATF radar, you'll be on the radar. Have a long talk with whoever your insurer will be. Its a business just like any other - avoid debt and you should be OK. |
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I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Ask him how many NICS trace requests he gets in a year. Then ask the average time from sale to trace. If he's constantly on ATF radar, you'll be on the radar. Have a long talk with whoever your insurer will be. Its a business just like any other - avoid debt and you should be OK. View Quote OP shouldn't buy the actual business. He should set up a new business and a new FFL and purchase the inventory and facility. That way he's not stuck with the prior FFL's paperwork and other liabilities. |
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Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: OP shouldn't buy the actual business. He should set up a new business and a new FFL and purchase the inventory and facility. That way he's not stuck with the prior FFL's paperwork and other liabilities. View Quote That and it's good to know if the only thing keeping them above water is selling Hi-points and Kel-tecs... |
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I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By Propblast: First and foremost, DON'T DO IT! The way you make a million dollars in the gun industry is to start with three million (It use to be two million). However, if you are headed down that road, here are a couple of things I would look at. 1- Have them open their books to you to see what the profitably of the business is. Due to the internet, there is very little profit in guns, ammo and accessories. IF the range is popular that is where most likely your money will come from that. 2- You will never find anyone that will run your place as well as you can. Meaning don't have a manager, floor manager, shift leader, etc. they will do the very minimum. 3- Don't get a partner. Fuck that guy! 4- See what dealer relationships they have. If they get all of their stuff from one vendor, then they could be on credit hold, or at the worst black balled with the major vendors. If all they use is Davidson's then ask questions. Again, I would highly recommend steering clear of the Gunshop business, like you a syphilis infected whore house. But this is just my opinion. View Quote |
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Don't let the join date fool you... here since '97
VA, USA
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: OP shouldn't buy the actual business. He should set up a new business and a new FFL and purchase the inventory and facility. That way he's not stuck with the prior FFL's paperwork and other liabilities. View Quote |
www.HansohnBrothers.com
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I cant help with any advice. Im glad there are people like you willing to give this a go. We need more like you.
You might be able to bring that shop into modern ages with local sales and transfers. I hope it all works out for you. |
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Along with everything else said, I hope the next administration will do away with ATF's "zero tolerance" policy of stripping the license for any small paperwork error.
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