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Posted: 4/1/2024 10:26:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Natty_Bumppo]
I have acquired an Inland M1A1 "Paratrooper Carbine", the requisite markings are all present, the stock has original characteristics, and the patina is consistent throughout. It was known to have been purchased in the 1950's and kept since by the same person. It is marked A.A.L. on the stock for an apparent Augusta Armory refit following WWII. An aftermarket front sight was installed at some point but that will be changed to an appropriate sight this week. Handy little booger and being I was an 11B1P, and my kid at West Point will be ABN., it makes a great family heirloom. was wondering about current value of such a firearm.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:06:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: I have acquired an Inland M1A1 "Paratrooper Carbine", the requisite markings are all present, the stock has original characteristics, and the patina is consistent throughout. It was known to have been purchased in the 1950's and kept since by the same person. It is marked A.A.L. on the stock for an apparent Augusta Armory refit following WWII. An aftermarket front sight was installed at some point but that will be changed to an appropriate sight this week. Handy little booger and being I was an 11B1P, and my kid at West Point will be ABN., it makes a great family heirloom. was wondering about current value of such a firearm. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106214/IMG_0635_jpeg-3175478.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106214/IMG_0636_jpeg-3175480.JPG IMO, with a correct front sight $4500 range. Maybe more with the history |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: IMO, with a correct front sight $4500 range. Maybe more with the history 😮 |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:33:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DonFlynn]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: 😮 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Originally Posted By DonFlynn: IMO, with a correct front sight $4500 range. Maybe more with the history 😮 You would be surprised what just the stock would fetch. M1A1's that can be "vetted" as original can fetch top dollar on the collectors market. I would check the serial number range, they made 2 runs of M1a1's during the war. http://uscarbinecal30m1.com/ProductionGraph.aspx There's no "true" way to know if 1 was made as a M1A1 but yours is a Inland, the only US manufacturer during the war. You said it was purchased in the 50's so odd's are it's a bring back of some sort. Depending on what batch it was made if it was in the 2nd batch it "could" have come from the factory with the adjustable rear sight and Type 3 barrel band http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelM1A1.html You got a keeper, that's for sure |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:43:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Barrel looks cut down
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: You would be surprised what just the stock would fetch. M1A1's that can be "vetted" as original can fetch top dollar on the collectors market. I would check the serial number range, they made 2 runs of M1a1's during the war. http://uscarbinecal30m1.com/ProductionGraph.aspx There's no "true" way to know if 1 was made as a M1A1 but yours is a Inland, the only US manufacturer during the war. You said it was purchased in the 50's so odd's are it's a bring back of some sort. Depending on what batch it was made if it was in the 2nd batch it "could" have come from the factory with the adjustable rear sight and Type 3 barrel band http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelM1A1.html You got a keeper, that's for sure Second run. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 1:57:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Barrel looks cut down Does look short in the pic. I’ll have to throw a rod down the barrel. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Barrel looks cut down It appears so.  So not $4500 anymore. Either way it looks like a fun one. That said replacing the barrel with a “correct” barrel and front sight would restore some of that value. I am guessing they cut the key way portion off the barrel. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:06:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Trying to find an inland barrel. Have the sight stuff already.
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USA
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:20:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I am no expert but the WW2 carbine production the major and minor components were often used across brands on new rifles.
You can of course buy whatever yours is marked if it wasn’t cut off or buried under the commercial sight. You may want to post a question on correct paratrooper data sheets. Basically if the majority have Inland barrels of x date then use that. Or just be content with a good GI replacement. The m1 Garand gun had cross swapped parts for production reasons as well as interchangeability. The carbine factory parts swapping was on steroids in comparison. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:22:58 PM EDT
[#10]
It's an Inland, I have to check the barrel. I can get a Winchester barrel but will look for an Inland. Have a Gunsmith who has WWII collector connections.
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USA
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Posted: 4/1/2024 2:36:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#11]
I checked my library,....I have some Garand data sheets but only the small Duff M1 carbine guide book that lacks data sheets. No luck but I am sure someone here has them or just knows. I know enough to be dangerous.
Odds are it was Inland and always was Inland. They were not lacking in production capacity as far as I know. I only own two carbines both have matching factory barrels but mine are Inland and Winchester so they were likely supplying parts to others more than getting them to maintain production. The area under your sight may have the markings.....by my eyeball calculations estimate. Have fun with it and good luck on the project. I can kick myself for not buying one of those at the 80’s gun shows at the Egg. They were in piles on the table freshly imported from Korea. |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 3:33:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: It's an Inland, I have to check the barrel. I can get a Winchester barrel but will look for an Inland. Have a Gunsmith who has WWII collector connections. Damn shame you didn't get this last year. I had a late 44 Inland barrel I was holding onto looking for a receiver. I finally sold it to someone here who had a 43 Inland receiver and needed a barrel. I would get the Winchester barrel now but hold off mounting in case you can find a matching Inland barrel. Problem there will be even if you do get a Inland barrel since it won't be the issue barrel it's lost the collectors value I mentioned before. The stock is still valuable though. That could fetch $1000 itself on the auction sites. Last option if your gunsmith can't find a Inland barrel is contact a dedicated Carbine service company like Fulton Armory or Orion 7. I've used the former several times and they service enough Carbines they "might" be able to source a barrel. It'll be pricey though. Last option since you mention "heirloom" for your son since he's going Airborne is have Fulton install a new USGI spec barrel on it. That'll insure another lifetimes worth of service from this Carbine |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 4:11:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Thank you all, and if you get a lead please IM me.
And it’s daughter, I have two West Pointers, both girls, the oldest is an F-16 pilot and the first female West Point grad to fly fighters, the second will be marrying a great lad destined for 2BCT 82ABN. Thus she will be stationed at Bragg also (it’ll always be Bragg). |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 5:15:02 PM EDT
[#14]
What's the 1P after the 11B?
Cool gun |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 5:29:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Thank you all, and if you get a lead please IM me. And it’s daughter, I have two West Pointers, both girls, the oldest is an F-16 pilot and the first female West Point grad to fly fighters, the second will be marrying a great lad destined for 2BCT 82ABN. Thus she will be stationed at Bragg also (it’ll always be Bragg). Will do, and good luck to the daughters and thank them for me for what they represent |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 5:40:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Do a little more research, OP -- I think the M1 Carbine bayonet lug is a post-war modification to the entire fleet (most having been completed before the Korean War).
How it would have looked operationally during the war:  
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Posted: 4/1/2024 6:01:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: Do a little more research, OP -- I think the M1 Carbine bayonet lug is a post-war modification to the entire fleet (most having been completed before the Korean War). How it would have looked operationally during the war: https://irongatearmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1132C-M1A1-Carbine-U.S.-paratroopers-of-the-17th-Airborne-demonstrating-a-new-weapon-used-for-the-first-time-during-Operation-Varsity-The-M18-recoilless-57mm.jpg https://www.rjmilitaria.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/us_paratroop_aims_with_m1a1_carbine-1174x1200.jpg Late war mod, the OP's Carbine "could" have had it factory issue http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelM1A1.html "The serial numbers of the carbines placed within these stocks by Inland were mixed with Model M1 Carbine production generally in the 5,000,000 - 6,449,868 range. During this time Inland transitioned from: the rear flip sight to the adjustable rear sights the narrow barrel band to the wide barrel band and eventually to the barrel band with bayonet lug the two rivet handguard to the 4 rivet handguard the flat bolt to the round bolt the late cam cut for the type V slide (marked 7160091 on bottom) The last shipment of M1A1 stocks made by Overton (4,529) was shipped to Inland in January 1945, a month after Inland had completed it's second run of M1A1 Carbines (December 1944)." |
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Posted: 4/1/2024 7:19:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: What's the 1P after the 11B? Cool gun 1 junior enlisted, E-4 and below P- parachutist qualified. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/1/2024 8:47:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Ran across an 8-42 Inland barrel online earlier today. Looked pretty decent and was sub-$300. PM me if that is of interest.
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Posted: 4/1/2024 8:59:28 PM EDT
[#20]
As said if it’s all matching purchased in 1950s inland the odds are already in your favor it was built as an M1A1. The tricky part is valuing it as is with the current sight or a legitimate front sight and barrel if the barrel was cut down. If cut down I’d still say $2500-3500 depending on how and where you sell it. But I would agree that if the barrel is not original or modified it takes a big chunk out.
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Posted: 4/2/2024 8:23:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HurstXJ: Ran across an 8-42 Inland barrel online earlier today. Looked pretty decent and was sub-$300. PM me if that is of interest. Thank you. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 8:43:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Anybody know where I can get a barrel/action wrench?
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:27:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Anybody know where I can get a barrel/action wrench? Fulton Armory has them https://www.fulton-armory.com/m1-carbine-tools.aspx If your thinking of changing barrels yourself be advised on M1 Carbines bolt headspace is VERY important. You would also need a set of headspace gauges IMO. While new bolts was suppose to be interchangeable these are now 80 year old rifles, bolts have worn to the barrel. I had to have the bolt on a recent Saginaw I bought changed out. Lucky for me I had a NOS USGI bolt I could use but I think that was the last one Apex Gun Parts had. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:51:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Fulton Armory has them https://www.fulton-armory.com/m1-carbine-tools.aspx If your thinking of changing barrels yourself be advised on M1 Carbines bolt headspace is VERY important. You would also need a set of headspace gauges IMO. While new bolts was suppose to be interchangeable these are now 80 year old rifles, bolts have worn to the barrel. I had to have the bolt on a recent Saginaw I bought changed out. Lucky for me I had a NOS USGI bolt I could use but I think that was the last one Apex Gun Parts had. had to order from Riverbank, Fulton is out of stock. My gunsmith is great and was the head guy for Sharps. He has done quite a few M1 pattern guns. He's doing the work. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:49:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: had to order from Riverbank, Fulton is out of stock. My gunsmith is great and was the head guy for Sharps. He has done quite a few M1 pattern guns. He's doing the work. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Originally Posted By DonFlynn: Fulton Armory has them https://www.fulton-armory.com/m1-carbine-tools.aspx If your thinking of changing barrels yourself be advised on M1 Carbines bolt headspace is VERY important. You would also need a set of headspace gauges IMO. While new bolts was suppose to be interchangeable these are now 80 year old rifles, bolts have worn to the barrel. I had to have the bolt on a recent Saginaw I bought changed out. Lucky for me I had a NOS USGI bolt I could use but I think that was the last one Apex Gun Parts had. had to order from Riverbank, Fulton is out of stock. My gunsmith is great and was the head guy for Sharps. He has done quite a few M1 pattern guns. He's doing the work. Good luck with Riverbank. You'll find they have a rep with Carbine collectors of selling fake parts. If you gunsmith has experience then you should be fine. Post pictures when you get it fixed up. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 11:51:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Good luck with Riverbank. You'll find they have a rep with Carbine collectors of selling fake parts. If you gunsmith has experience then you should be fine. Post pictures when you get it fixed up. Riverbank is still George Slakos? lol, yea, no. Great source for fake flip sights sold as real thing. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 1:17:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Damn shame you didn't get this last year. I had a late 44 Inland barrel I was holding onto looking for a receiver. I finally sold it to someone here who had a 43 Inland receiver and needed a barrel. I would get the Winchester barrel now but hold off mounting in case you can find a matching Inland barrel. Problem there will be even if you do get a Inland barrel since it won't be the issue barrel it's lost the collectors value I mentioned before. The stock is still valuable though. That could fetch $1000 itself on the auction sites. Last option if your gunsmith can't find a Inland barrel is contact a dedicated Carbine service company like Fulton Armory or Orion 7. I've used the former several times and they service enough Carbines they "might" be able to source a barrel. It'll be pricey though. Last option since you mention "heirloom" for your son since he's going Airborne is have Fulton install a new USGI spec barrel on it. That'll insure another lifetimes worth of service from this Carbine At best, the OP's rifle is a post WW2 upgrade. It won't bring the $$ that an original pre 45 gun would bring. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 4:07:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Thank you all, and if you get a lead please IM me. And it’s daughter, I have two West Pointers, both girls, the oldest is an F-16 pilot and the first female West Point grad to fly fighters, the second will be marrying a great lad destined for 2BCT 82ABN. Thus she will be stationed at Bragg also (it’ll always be Bragg). Go here and join. Someone there will have a barrel that would be correct.\ carbine collectors forum |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 5:25:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wm69: Go here and join. Someone there will have a barrel that would be correct. carbine collectors forum Good idea. Wealth of knowledge there |
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Posted: 4/3/2024 12:30:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Natty_Bumppo]
[#30]
Thank you
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:43:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Snagged this one from a gentleman in the EE for $3k a couple of weeks ago. Came in an M60 barrel bag with cleaning rods in addition to what's pictured.
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Posted: 4/3/2024 9:13:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Polupharmakos: Snagged this one from a gentleman in the EE for $3k a couple of weeks ago. Came in an M60 barrel bag with cleaning rods in addition to what's pictured. https://i.imgur.com/a5WKsNG.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uTLvb0T.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gScASD6.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/O2DrxM9.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/q2h0f3j.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1AxX6a0.jpeg Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one |
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Posted: 4/3/2024 9:19:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Originally Posted By Polupharmakos: Snagged this one from a gentleman in the EE for $3k a couple of weeks ago. Came in an M60 barrel bag with cleaning rods in addition to what's pictured. https://i.imgur.com/a5WKsNG.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uTLvb0T.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gScASD6.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/O2DrxM9.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/q2h0f3j.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1AxX6a0.jpeg Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one You keep posting that statement, yet your actions would seemingly belie your words... 
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Posted: 4/3/2024 10:50:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: You keep posting that statement, yet your actions would seemingly belie your words... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DonFlynn: Originally Posted By Polupharmakos: Snagged this one from a gentleman in the EE for $3k a couple of weeks ago. Came in an M60 barrel bag with cleaning rods in addition to what's pictured. https://i.imgur.com/a5WKsNG.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uTLvb0T.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gScASD6.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/O2DrxM9.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/q2h0f3j.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1AxX6a0.jpeg Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one You keep posting that statement, yet your actions would seemingly belie your words... Shhhhh, I almost believe it myself 
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Posted: 4/4/2024 12:17:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Polupharmakos: Snagged this one from a gentleman in the EE for $3k a couple of weeks ago. Came in an M60 barrel bag with cleaning rods in addition to what's pictured. https://i.imgur.com/a5WKsNG.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/uTLvb0T.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/gScASD6.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/O2DrxM9.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/q2h0f3j.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1AxX6a0.jpeg Same serial number range, within thousands. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 5:01:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonFlynn: Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one I saw it too but funds wouldn’t allow. I need an M1A1 and M2 to feel complete. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 6:34:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I saw it too but funds wouldn’t allow. I need an M1A1 and M2 to feel complete. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Originally Posted By DonFlynn: Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one I saw it too but funds wouldn’t allow. I need an M1A1 and M2 to feel complete. Well…. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 11:50:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: I saw it too but funds wouldn’t allow. I need an M1A1 and M2 to feel complete. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vellnueve: Originally Posted By DonFlynn: Nice. I saw that and was glad you got it, I don't need another one I saw it too but funds wouldn’t allow. I need an M1A1 and M2 to feel complete. Same here, but unless I win the Powerball tomorrow night those won't happen. I'll have to settle for my M1A1 fix with this  My Fulton Armory repro, as for a M2 I'll just have to settle for saying "tacka tacka tacka" with a M1 Carbine
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Posted: 4/18/2024 7:05:07 AM EDT
[#39]
All, I wish to thank you for your assistance. I've ascertained a manufacture date period of 08/44-11/44 with the probability being the forward end of that date. I have secured an unissued 1944 Inland barrel which will be installed. I'll post pics upon completion.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:34:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: All, I wish to thank you for your assistance. I've ascertained a manufacture date period of 08/44-11/44 with the probability being the forward end of that date. I have secured an unissued 1944 Inland barrel which will be installed. I'll post pics upon completion. Excellent, looking forward to seeing this restored. A period correct barrel in nice shape could restore the value of the carbine to close to what it was. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 2:50:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: All, I wish to thank you for your assistance. I've ascertained a manufacture date period of 08/44-11/44 with the probability being the forward end of that date. I have secured an unissued 1944 Inland barrel which FIFY. |
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Posted: 4/20/2024 6:50:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: All, I wish to thank you for your assistance. I've ascertained a manufacture date period of 08/44-11/44 with the probability being the forward end of that date. I have secured an unissued 1944 Inland barrel which will be installed. I'll post pics upon completion. Outstanding Natty! Glad you found a barrel and I'm looking forward to the pics of the finished rifle. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2024 11:10:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Easiest way to know if the barrel band is original to the rifle is a punch proof mark on the barrel. If you can see it with the bayonet band on it then it's original. If you cannot see it then it had either a type 1 or type 2 band originally. The proof mark will be hidden by the type 3 band.
Perfect example is the barrel picture in post 31 |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 5:05:23 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/1/2024 5:25:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Natty_Bumppo: Picked it up today https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106214/IMG_0805_jpeg-3203058.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106214/IMG_0803_jpeg-3203060.JPG Nice |
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