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Posted: 5/2/2024 6:17:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
Hodgdon is expanding into the hardware side of the business
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/revelyst-announces-sale-rcbs-110000319.html No more off topic powder posts in this thread, see post 33 for more, dryflash3 |
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[#1]
Cool.
That should be a good fit. |
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[#2]
I would be happier if they would actually produce some 4895 powder.
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[#3]
Nice. I think that will be a great fit!
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derp...
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[#4]
Die price hike when?
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"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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[#5]
great, just great.
Actually I have no idea if good or not. My RCBS products are decent. I hate my universal hand primer though. |
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[#6]
Sweet I can't wait for lower prices
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[#7]
So my "real" RCBS stuff just took a bump in value ala Marlin?
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All your wheel weights are belong to me.
Patriot Q-Tard “We’re surrounded. That simplifies the problem.” - Chesty Puller, USMC |
[#8]
I wonder if Hodgdon would move operations away from Oroville, California. "Ammunition Accessories" (=RCBS?) employs about 160 people there.
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[#9]
Originally Posted By woddwo: I wonder if Hodgdon would move operations away from Oroville, California. "Ammunition Accessories" (=RCBS?) employs about 160 people there. View Quote I really doubt it. Hodgdon doesn't actually make anything. They are just a brand name, and historically when they buy brands, they were not moved. I can't think of it ever happening. I can't think of them ever buying anything other than powder brands though. |
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[#10]
I hope they keep the great customer service.
I bought an old used 38 special seating die online. I wanted to see if they would sell me a wad cutter seating plug. They emailed me back Hello dcs12345, can you tell us if you have the older style where the seating plug is the skinny shaft with screwdriver slot on top? Or does it have a large knurled head to thread down into the top? It was the old skinny shaft type. They wrote back saying: Hello dcs12345, I've created an order for you, covered as a courtesy, and am sending it to the address you have provided. You should receive an email with the tracking information once your package has shipped via USPS. Pretty damn good service. |
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Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country.
~John Adams |
[#11]
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[#12]
Originally Posted By dcs12345: I hope they keep the great customer service. I bought an old used 38 special seating die online. I wanted to see if they would sell me a wad cutter seating plug. They emailed me back Hello dcs12345, can you tell us if you have the older style where the seating plug is the skinny shaft with screwdriver slot on top? Or does it have a large knurled head to thread down into the top? It was the old skinny shaft type. They wrote back saying: Hello dcs12345, I've created an order for you, covered as a courtesy, and am sending it to the address you have provided. You should receive an email with the tracking information once your package has shipped via USPS. Pretty damn good service. View Quote RCBS has service about on par with Dillon I don’t use a whole lot of RCBS products…..but this is probably a net gain for Hogden. I certainly hope they keep the outstanding CS |
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[#13]
Originally Posted By MarkBinSC: Hodgdon is expanding into the hardware side of the business https://finance.yahoo.com/news/revelyst-announces-sale-rcbs-110000319.html View Quote Is Revelyst just the new name for Vista Outdoors? And didn’t Vista Outdoors sell off Federal ammunition to some Czech company? |
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[#14]
I certainly hope they keep the outstanding CS View Quote As do I, but often the bean counters get their noses in the business after a takeover and ruin what made the previous administration great. |
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[#15]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: That's one of the easiest powders to find. The very first place I looked, it's in stock. Powder Valley. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fgshoot: Originally Posted By raffi383: I would be happier if they would actually produce some 4895 powder. That's one of the easiest powders to find. The very first place I looked, it's in stock. Powder Valley. $60/lb ! ! ! ! |
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#16]
I don't view this as a good thing at all. Hodgdon has consolidated almost all the main gunpowder brands under their ownership, failed to meet market demand, and drastically raised prices. VV, one of the very few still independent of Hodgdon, is now cheaper than most any Hodgdon gunpowder for Chrissake. Personally, I view this as one way to make Dillon be cheaper than RCBS now.
Rather than investing that capital in expanding gunpowder production, they are just going and buying yet more companies to increase their marketshare, so they can be even more monopolistic. I don't celebrate this at all. Honest question: are the people who ran Vista Outdoors, who've wrecked every gun company they owned - and they owned many, now working at running Hodgdon in some way? Because that's what I'm seeing all over again, IMHO. |
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#17]
Originally Posted By lazyengineer: I don't view this as a good thing at all. Hodgdon has consolidated almost all the main gunpowder brands under their ownership, failed to meet market demand, and drastically raised prices. VV, one of the very few still independent of Hodgdon, is now cheaper than most any Hodgdon gunpowder for Chrissake. Personally, I view this as one way to make Dillon be cheaper than RCBS now. Rather than investing that capital in expanding gunpowder production, they are just going and buying yet more companies to increase their marketshare, so they can be even more monopolistic. I don't celebrate this at all. Honest question: are the people who ran Vista Outdoors, who've wrecked every gun company they owned - and they owned many, now working at running Hodgdon in some way? Because that's what I'm seeing all over again, IMHO. View Quote To answer my own question - yep, here it is, new CEO Steven M. Kehrwald, who started about 7 years ago. And there it is, right on his VITA: VISTA OUTDOORS. https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/hodgdon-powder-announces-new-ceo/ |
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[#18]
I don’t think this will be an improvement. They got the money to buy RCBS where?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#19]
Personally, I don't have a good feeling about this.
Nothing I can point to, just a feeling. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#20]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: That's one of the easiest powders to find. The very first place I looked, it's in stock. Powder Valley. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fgshoot: Originally Posted By raffi383: I would be happier if they would actually produce some 4895 powder. That's one of the easiest powders to find. The very first place I looked, it's in stock. Powder Valley. @fgshoot Really? Must have sold out both 1 lb and 8 lb sizes since you checked. Attached File I've been randomly checking for over a year and have never see it in stock anywhere. Any leads for where to find it would be great. |
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[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#21]
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: $60/lb ! ! ! ! View Quote Aint that something? We are getting dangerously close to where reloading is going to cost more than just buying ammo. Already I did the math, If I bought all things today, $80 for 1000 primers, $60 for pound of powder, $20 for 100 brass, and relatively cheap bullets $35 for 100, plus tax, we are close to $30 for 20 rounds of 308. I can just go buy Federal gold medal match 308 for $35 a box. I'll be shooting a lot of lighter loads with cast bullets this year. |
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[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#22]
Originally Posted By raffi383: @fgshoot Really? Must have sold out both 1 lb and 8 lb sizes since you checked. I've been randomly checking for over a year and have never see it in stock anywhere. Any leads for where to find it would be great. View Quote Honestly, online powder and primers has been horrendous the last 4 years. I hardly even look anymore, since my local stores have had it, and it's been cheaper. No shipping or hazmat either. I would call around and be willing to drive a little ways. Otherwise Powder Valley is nice to get on their email list. To be clear I do not shoot H4895, so I have not looked for it. I know I've seen it on my local stores shelves in the last 6 months. |
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[Last Edit: 1911user]
[#23]
IMR 4895 is in stock at PV for 60$/pound.
I ordered some more salvage powder and bullets from AR today. I'm putting supplies away now so I can load and shoot well into retirement. |
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[#24]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: Honestly, online powder and primers has been horrendous the last 4 years. I hardly even look anymore, since my local stores have had it, and it's been cheaper. No shipping or hazmat either. I would call around and be willing to drive a little ways. Otherwise Powder Valley is nice to get on their email list. To be clear I do not shoot H4895, so I have not looked for it. I know I've seen it on my local stores shelves in the last 6 months. View Quote That must be a low volume seller. H4895 has been extremely difficult to find for the past 3-4yrs. I’ve seen powder valley have it once in the last year and I bought my limit then. IMR 4895 is easier to find, but it’s not the same stuff. H4895, 8208xbr, RL26….unicorn powders as of late, even with inflated prices. If MOA will do, I choose factory ammo. If I want consistent sub half moa, I’ll reload ammo for that purpose to save on components. |
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[#25]
I don't like them buying RCBS. I'd be very happy if they bought Dillon instead. I love my Dillon press and stuff, but Dillon can't run a company for shit. They've been behind on shipping stuff for years. It took them ONE Full year to ship the 9mm die set that came with my 550C a few years ago. Then, it took them about 9 months to ship my .45acp dies and the shell plate/kit. I've just bought Lee die sets for the other calibers. Got tired of waiting. I love the products, but they don't have clue to running a company.
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[#26]
I foresee a drastic reduction of LEE products on the shelf of large retailers who sells powder and equipment.
Hodgeon sales rep to Crappie Bro World buyer: "SURE! We can probably send ya that there big ole truck load a powder ya'll ordered... but ole so-in-so is wantin it too and they are sellin the far outta RCBS... cut the LEE down to just shell holders... you think ya'll can help us out a mite more?" Any bets on who has the best selection of in person powder after this? |
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[#27]
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: That must be a low volume seller. H4895 has been extremely difficult to find for the past 3-4yrs. I’ve seen powder valley have it once in the last year and I bought my limit then. IMR 4895 is easier to find, but it’s not the same stuff. H4895, 8208xbr, RL26….unicorn powders as of late, even with inflated prices. If MOA will do, I choose factory ammo. If I want consistent sub half moa, I’ll reload ammo for that purpose to save on components. View Quote Lower volume than Powder Valley or Grafs obviously, but it's not some out of the way no-name shop. Actually there's two stores that carry a decent amount of powder and primers, one of them being Runnings. Even Runnings has beat online in both availability and price. Both Runnings and the other store had IMR 8208 come in ballpark 6 months to 9 months ago. If your local stores didn't, that's their issue. It has been made recently, and I'm sure it will be again soon. |
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[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#28]
Originally Posted By beansnicewater: I foresee a drastic reduction of LEE products on the shelf of large retailers who sells powder and equipment. Hodgeon sales rep to Crappie Bro World buyer: "SURE! We can probably send ya that there big ole truck load a powder ya'll ordered... but ole so-in-so is wantin it too and they are sellin the far outta RCBS... cut the LEE down to just shell holders... you think ya'll can help us out a mite more?" Any bets on who has the best selection of in person powder after this? View Quote I guess that depends what you mean by best selection. Is there even going to be an "after this"? I used to shoot way more Hodgdon powders, but they just keep discontinuing them. In the past 10 years, Hodgdon has discontinued about half of their powders. I used to shoot SR 4756, SR 4759, 800x, PB. All discontinued. When Varget was gone, I tried 4166, now its discontinued along with their entire enduron line. One of my biggest passions in shooting is muzzleloaders, and I love Goex Ol Eyensford blackpowder. Then they sold the brand, thank god someone bought it. I want to like Hodgdon powders, but they've discontinued basically every powder I've ever liked from them. All that's left is IMR 3031, IMR 8208, and Varget for me. I doubt Varget is going anywhere, but I would not be surprised if 3031 gets discontinued, and it's a small miracle 8208 wasn't gone with the enduron line, probably because it was so popular at the time when Varget was unobtanium. |
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[#29]
buy up everything control the market.Like one mentioned reloading is near the price of buying ammo with some calibers.I just bought a 9mm i wont bother relaoding for that easier and cheap to buy bulk.
My hunting rounds for 300 mag cost me almost 2 bucks a round with a nosler partition bullet. |
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[#30]
Everyone complaining about Hogdon needs to remember that they really don’t make powders, they only rebrand/resell/market powders from the manufacturers (some domestic plants and some foreign).
I doubt they are making the choice to discontinue powders, I’d be willing to bet that’s it’s the manufacturers that are discontinuing powders they don’t want to make. They just resell what is available to them. As for pricing… yea, no idea there. When VV is the “best value” powder out there, you know things are crazy. ZA |
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derp...
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[#31]
Originally Posted By fgshoot: Lower volume than Powder Valley or Grafs obviously, but it's not some out of the way no-name shop. Actually there's two stores that carry a decent amount of powder and primers, one of them being Runnings. Even Runnings has beat online in both availability and price. Both Runnings and the other store had IMR 8208 come in ballpark 6 months to 9 months ago. If your local stores didn't, that's their issue. It has been made recently, and I'm sure it will be again soon. View Quote The precision shooters watch for some powders like hawks. While some powders have been imported recently, it hasn’t been nearly as much as pre Covid. I rarely use a local shop; they tend to have low quantities. If your shop has a lot of powder, that’s awesome, but when powder drops, it usually requires ordering online to get several 8lb jugs for most. PV and Hodgdon usually sell out in just a few minutes when they show up. Hopefully the supply vs demand practice doesn’t impact RCBS products in the future. |
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[#32]
Originally Posted By ZA206: When VV is the “best value” powder out there, you know things are crazy. ZA View Quote Not crazy, it is a market monopoly. The corporation I worked for was always trying to position themselves into a monopoly to control pricing to increase profits. Hodgdon has control of the majority of the market. Jacking prices up where their competitors are cheaper is profitable. Their competitors can’t risk in investing in increasing production because Hodgdon can cut prices and make returns on their investment very poor. Hodgdon also has an unique product that buyers are reluctant to turn away from. It is an investment of time and money to try different powders for reloaders. Many will bear higher cost rather than change from their tried and true powders. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#33]
OK, enough of the off topic powder posts.
Topic of this thread is RCBS being bought by Hodgdon. If you wish to discuss powder availably, start a new thread and discuss. dryflash3 |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#34]
I don't think this will benefit us at all. I mean their powder consolidation did us a solid, right?
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[Last Edit: GunsNotPuns]
[#35]
Originally Posted By dryflash3: Personally, I don't have a good feeling about this. Nothing I can point to, just a feeling. View Quote I'm joining that club. On the face of it it's not a bad thing, but for me Hodgdon has lost a lot of its esteem in recent years and I don't really trust them despite their proclaimed Christian values. |
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[#36]
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[Last Edit: RareBear]
[#37]
Hodgdon Powder Company owned the GOEX black powder plant in Minden, Louisiana from 2000-2021.
Some interesting history: https://freerangeamerican.us/black-powder-goex-plant-closure/ |
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#38]
Originally Posted By anachronism: Too many eggs in too few baskets is my take. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By anachronism: Originally Posted By dryflash3: Personally, I don't have a good feeling about this. Nothing I can point to, just a feeling. Too many eggs in too few baskets is my take. I actively avoid anything Hodgdon now - just like I avoided anything VISTA. Now that the VISTA leadership team is leading Hodgdon after the family leader died late last decade, they are doing VISTA things. Mostly it's just priced out of my appeal and not available - more than a big rage-fest or anything. Nor am I aware of any quality issues nor implying there are any (VISTA wrecked the quality of the gun companies they owned, but I'm not aware of any Hodgdon issues). But I just despise that group - and am not happy with what they are doing with Hodgdon. This latest example, of using substantial capital to buy up more reloading related providers, rather than investing that capital in a way to try and satisfy market demand and recover prices - says all you need to know on where the new VISTA leadership is going. For me, I'll be focusing on VV and Shooters world going forward more; and for equipment, will continue to focus on Hornady (to keep with mod's request to stay on topic) - who I hold in high regard. Though again not a boycott or rage or call-to-anything; just my own bias'. That, and it's really just a market reaction since those suppliers have good products at notably better prices; so that's where I'm going to go. |
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[#39]
I’m not sure what Vista is up to long term. It was announced last fall that they would sell a large portion (CCI, Speer, Remington Ammo, Federal, etc) to the Czechoslovak Group. This is a different company than the CZ group that bought Colt and Sellier Bellot.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/czechoslovak-group-acquiring-federal-cci-hevi-shot-remington-ammo-and-speer/#:~:text=Czechoslovak%20Group%20 |
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[#40]
Originally Posted By MarkBinSC: I’m not sure what Vista is up to long term. It was announced last fall that they would sell a large portion (CCI, Speer, Remington Ammo, Federal, etc) to the Czechoslovak Group. This is a different company than the CZ group that bought Colt and Sellier Bellot. https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/czechoslovak-group-acquiring-federal-cci-hevi-shot-remington-ammo-and-speer/#:~:text=Czechoslovak%20Group%20 View Quote FWIW, I don't think VISTA bought Hodgdon (that I know of). But their leadership now, are former VISTA executive. So same effect - bad philosophy of leadership that wrecked everything VISTA touched, is now leading Hodgdon. And sure enough, Hodgdon is being run now like a NYC executive MBA / raided company, and less so as a mission oriented company. To this thread,- I don't think this means good things for RCBS. |
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[#41]
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Liberal men are pissing their panties like little girls over guns all the time, like wusses, it's really pathetic that grown men can't act like....well, men.
m14brian |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#42]
Originally Posted By gman556: Glad I'm not the only one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By gman556: Originally Posted By dryflash3: Personally, I don't have a good feeling about this. Nothing I can point to, just a feeling. Glad I'm not the only one. And the results. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[Last Edit: Strikefirst]
[#43]
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[#44]
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[#45]
Originally Posted By Gone_rabid: What is the issue with them purchasing Accurate and Ramshot? I ask because I am not in the know and would like to know more. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Gone_rabid: Originally Posted By dryflash3: My opinion is based on Hodgdon's buying Accurate and Ramshot powders. And the results. What is the issue with them purchasing Accurate and Ramshot? I ask because I am not in the know and would like to know more. They are engaging in monopolistic practices, and supply & pricing tends to be harmed by such things. In particular, those two were known to be independents with cost-effective offerings. Now - less so. |
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[#46]
Well it doesn’t give me a great feeling either, but on the other hand Hodgdon at least is a reloading company, not some generic holding company just trying to wring the max $$$ out of RCBS in the least time frame.
So that is something. Could have been something more like Cerebrus who bought Remington/Bushmaster/AAC, etc etc, and totally ran them into the ground… |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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[#47]
Originally Posted By tac556: Well it doesn’t give me a great feeling either, but on the other hand Hodgdon at least is a reloading company, not some generic holding company just trying to wring the max $$$ out of RCBS in the least time frame. So that is something. Could have been something more like Cerebrus who bought Remington/Bushmaster/AAC, etc etc, and totally ran them into the ground… View Quote They were. But the family leadership died a few years ago amd now they are under VISTA executive leadership. Which is same as Cerebrus. So yes, my fear is they actually are going to follow that same trajectory. So far, their every move since the new VISTA executive has taken over, has confirmed that fear - and this announcement is yet one more confirmation. |
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[Last Edit: tac556]
[#48]
Edit-
Well hell. I looked it up. Yep Vista owns Hodgdon. Knew when saw the address and ANOKA….ugh. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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[#49]
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derp...
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[#50]
Originally Posted By lazyengineer: They are engaging in monopolistic practices, and supply & pricing tends to be harmed by such things. In particular, those two were known to be independents with cost-effective offerings. Now - less so. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By Gone_rabid: Originally Posted By dryflash3: My opinion is based on Hodgdon's buying Accurate and Ramshot powders. And the results. What is the issue with them purchasing Accurate and Ramshot? I ask because I am not in the know and would like to know more. They are engaging in monopolistic practices, and supply & pricing tends to be harmed by such things. In particular, those two were known to be independents with cost-effective offerings. Now - less so. I assumed there was more to this than that. Thank you for the answer. |
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