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Posted: 12/5/2023 9:26:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
Its getting embarrassing... but I've had this form 1 approved for awhile now. I need to get off my ass and just build it out.
eta: looked back through my f1 paperwork... I put down 9mm. I think the original plan back then was to make a full auto rated suppressor for my subgun. So I guess that's what I'm going to do. Goals are lightweight, reasonable noise reduction, sturdy. I don't know jack about how many baffles and what style, how big of a tube, etc... would love to hear suggestions from people who have already done all that skullsweat, tho. Like, "here's a list of stuff to buy, here's stuff to make or finish, etc" Is there such a "gold standard" design around for dummies to copy? Ideas are welcome. I'm pretty set on tools. Cutting, welding, turning, pressing/forming etc is no problem. Thanks in advance |
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Posted: 12/5/2023 11:04:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Man alive, finding places that are still open is a bitch.
Found these guys. No clue if they're legit but reddit seems to like them ok https://www.subzerosupply.com/17-4.html I am completely lost on these different styles and angles. Its going on a 14.7" barrel 5.56 most of the time, probably. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 10:28:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Austin4130]
[#2]
deleted
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 10:33:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#3]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/6/2023 2:20:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#4]
[Deleted]
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 3:26:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#5]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/6/2023 3:28:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#6]
[Deleted]
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 4:08:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#7]
[Deleted]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 6:00:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Ideas are welcome. I'm pretty set on tools. Cutting, welding, turning, pressing/forming etc is no problem. Thanks in advance By pretty set on tools, do you have the ability to machine your own baffles? |
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Posted: 12/6/2023 6:48:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sclearman: By pretty set on tools, do you have the ability to machine your own baffles? I've got a g0704 mill and a small-ish metal lathe I picked up at a trade school auction. Some CNC capability to the lathe but I need to convert it to a better controller and add a encoder to the spindle to give it threading capability. Mostly interested in seeing some known decent designs people have built and had good success with. Not afraid of modifying and trying different things but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel from scratch |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 11:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VinnieBoomBahReborn]
[#10]
At this time the single best 'open' source might be the Silencersmithing Forum on SilencerTalk There have been other forums but a bunch of good info was lost when the webhost decided to pull the plug. You can also go to Form1 dot org, but I would strongly suggest reading the sticky on how to get the best replies.
OK, full disclosure, I wrote the sticky  , but it's stayed up because it's true and useful advise
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Posted: 12/7/2023 12:00:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VinnieBoomBahReborn: At this time the single best 'open' source might be the Silencersmithing Forum on SilencerTalk There have been other forums but a bunch of good info was lost when the webhost decided to pull the plug. You can also go to Form1 dot org, but I would strongly suggest reading the sticky on how to get the best replies. OK, full disclosure, I wrote the sticky , but it's stayed up because it's true and useful adviseThanks, I see a ton of links to individual build threads. Great resource. Yeah... its depressing to see how much info has just gotten flushed over the past few years. |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 12:10:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Interested in how it turns out, OP, now that ATF has declared even end caps suppressors in & of themselves.
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Posted: 12/7/2023 1:24:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Interested in how it turns out, OP, now that ATF has declared even end caps suppressors in & of themselves. Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 1:54:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By backbencher: Interested in how it turns out, OP, now that ATF has declared even end caps suppressors in & of themselves. Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... This is ATF under control of the Democrat machine. What do you think? |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 2:56:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#15]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/7/2023 7:15:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#16]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/7/2023 7:16:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By backbencher: Interested in how it turns out, OP, now that ATF has declared even end caps suppressors in & of themselves. Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... Interesting, in for the answer to that... First im catching wind of it. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2023 9:34:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#18]
BS deleted by prebans.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... Disassembling a suppressor isn't an issue. End caps should've always been treated like silencers, it's what I've been saying for years. Literally every part of you silencer is a silencer, yet you only used 1 stamp. Drilling an end cap would be no different than drilling a baffle. You better have an approved Form 1 for either/both. The reason they should've always been seen as silencers is because they fit the definition. The variances given were because those Mfr's made it so their end caps didn't fit the definition. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2023 12:15:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Things have been a little stressful in the Form 1 world for a couple years now, and if any of you haven't kept up with all of it there is a 11 page thread on the ATF going after Diversified Machine on this forum you should read and spoiler alert, it doesn't end well.
 @1Andy2 to answerer your question on how anyone can legally build a Form 1 the best answer at this time is "very carefully and with full intent to follow the law" I wouldn't worry to much about the endcap issue as it applies to you. Your approved Form 1 covers your entire build, from mount to end cap, tubs and internal parts. But it only covers ONE complete suppressor and once you build is finished it is a single complete suppressor now and forever with no new parts without the service of a SOT or a new stamp (yes, there are some exceptions and nuances, but for now lets stick to the simple version). A good way to look at is that you exist in a complete body that will have differences from other bodies but there is nothing suspicious about you having your body with all the parts. Picture yourself walking down the street past a cop. No worries, right? Just you taking your Mk 1.0 Meat Suit out for a stroll. Now do the same thing except your walking down the street like John Travolta at the beginning of Saturday Night Fever except of a paint can you have an extra hand swaying in the breeze. And that is how the ATF is saying they look at it, OG parts? Just fine. Extra parts? Kind of suspicious.  Please note that I don't agree with that interpretation of the rules, just trying to explain it |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 4:06:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VinnieBoomBahReborn: Things have been a little stressful in the Form 1 world for a couple years now, and if any of you haven't kept up with all of it there is a 11 page thread on the ATF going after Diversified Machine on this forum you should read and spoiler alert, it doesn't end well. @1Andy2 to answerer your question on how anyone can legally build a Form 1 the best answer at this time is "very carefully and with full intent to follow the law" I wouldn't worry to much about the endcap issue as it applies to you. Your approved Form 1 covers your entire build, from mount to end cap, tubs and internal parts. But it only covers ONE complete suppressor and once you build is finished it is a single complete suppressor now and forever with no new parts without the service of a SOT or a new stamp (yes, there are some exceptions and nuances, but for now lets stick to the simple version). A good way to look at is that you exist in a complete body that will have differences from other bodies but there is nothing suspicious about you having your body with all the parts. Picture yourself walking down the street past a cop. No worries, right? Just you taking your Mk 1.0 Meat Suit out for a stroll. Now do the same thing except your walking down the street like John Travolta at the beginning of Saturday Night Fever except of a paint can you have an extra hand swaying in the breeze. And that is how the ATF is saying they look at it, OG parts? Just fine. Extra parts? Kind of suspicious. Please note that I don't agree with that interpretation of the rules, just trying to explain it Understood. But it does sound like from that description, the ATF could theoretically go after someone who was in the process of building a suppressor if they wanted to get creative in their interpretation about what was an "extra" part or not. Maybe that's paranoid but they do seem to employ some less than stellar human beings. |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 4:13:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#21]
I'm quite stupid. This will actually be for a 9mm subgun.
When I said I had this F1 in hand for awhile... lets just say it was a few Presidents ago 
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Posted: 12/7/2023 4:32:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I'm quite stupid. This will actually be for a 9mm subgun. When I said I had this F1 in hand for awhile... lets just say it was a few Presidents ago As I tell folks looking at my trust's cans at the gun show - those are Obama panic stamps, then I married a good-lookin blonde whose father was a machinist.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2023 5:17:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Understood. But it does sound like from that description, the ATF could theoretically go after someone who was in the process of building a suppressor if they wanted to get creative in their interpretation about what was an "extra" part or not. Maybe that's paranoid but they do seem to employ some less than stellar human beings. Really it comes down to 'intent' and other reasons they may be interested in looking at you. To the best of my knowledge no one has attracted ATF attention when the only issue was a F1 suppressor or parts or even extra parts. Sometimes there is a lot of "If they can go after them they can go after you" flung around but when you look into what "they" did you find bank fraud, illegal weapons possession, a paper trail confirming that "they" knew what they were doing was against the law and discussions on how to hide that, littering and even creating a nuisance. Don't do those things and you should be fine 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2023 9:30:17 AM EDT
[#24]
I think if I were going to form1 a 9mm subgun can right now, and build it from scratch, it would be a mix of ti and al and consist of 60 deg double radius clipped cones. The length and number are probably just a trade off between sound and compactness, or preference.
I only have one manufactured 9mm can and it's an old 3-lugged trident. I don't think it's numbers are quite as good as the newer cans but it's light and lives on FA MP5's and does just fine. Feels like it must be almost entirely aluminum and I haven't wrecked it yet. Shoot, I lied, I just remember I have a shorty tirant that just lives on my bump in the night gun, it's not a good example though. I saw one at the local shop the other day that appeared to be about 3" long. I was even more surprised when I saw the guy remove it from a 3-lug (was on an MP5K) as it didn't appear to have any mount visible externally. Now I'm kind of wanting a tiny SMG can... FYI if you are browsing those other mentioned sights keep an eye out for ECCO's posts. He's shares a lot more details than he probably should. Most of his designs are well within the reach of a well outfitted home/garage shop I think. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 12:33:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: I think if I were going to form1 a 9mm subgun can right now, and build it from scratch, it would be a mix of ti and al and consist of 60 deg double radius clipped cones. The length and number are probably just a trade off between sound and compactness, or preference. I only have one manufactured 9mm can and it's an old 3-lugged trident. I don't think it's numbers are quite as good as the newer cans but it's light and lives on FA MP5's and does just fine. Feels like it must be almost entirely aluminum and I haven't wrecked it yet. Shoot, I lied, I just remember I have a shorty tirant that just lives on my bump in the night gun, it's not a good example though. I saw one at the local shop the other day that appeared to be about 3" long. I was even more surprised when I saw the guy remove it from a 3-lug (was on an MP5K) as it didn't appear to have any mount visible externally. Now I'm kind of wanting a tiny SMG can... FYI if you are browsing those other mentioned sights keep an eye out for ECCO's posts. He's shares a lot more details than he probably should. Most of his designs are well within the reach of a well outfitted home/garage shop I think. Thanks! From what I'm reading and others have suggested, radials spaced evenly is the way to go for a 9mm subgun can. On materials, do you mean a titanium body and aluminum baffles? I was considering a titanium body and stainless steel baffles for durability, since the weight is a little less of an issue. My mac already weighs a ton with the lage upper... |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 1:18:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OTHP]
[#26]
Since you mentioned Lage and Mac take a little volume into account.
Reduces decibles. Doesn't heat up as fast. Doesn't load up with gunk as fast. Make it servicable it's not hard to fill up a can with a lage upper. Had to send my octane 9 back in for service, shot the hell out of it on the 10/31 upper and didn't pull it apart. Took a year but finally filled up enough to have the 1st baffle take a strike. Never even knew it, it still sounded good shot good. Took it apart finally to clean it and saw the 1st cone was clipped and hanging like a ripped toe nail. Silencer shop had it back in a week. I have a few Lage uppers and cans but my only F1 can is a 30 cal I use mostly on 556 it works great on my lage 10/15 upper. Made it 100% SS and take apart and it handles FA fine. Was made from raw stock pre- solvent trap fiasco on my machines. Guys over on silencer talk were very helpfull back 2013 when I made it. Was a real pucker factor when I attached it to the lage 556 upper and did the 1st FA mag dump. Guess it's over built. Some of the best advice I got frome silencer talk was: Take your time, go slow, and any mistakes just crush and discard before starting over. You're going to have it for life, do it right the 1st time. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 9:51:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Thanks! From what I'm reading and others have suggested, radials spaced evenly is the way to go for a 9mm subgun can. On materials, do you mean a titanium body and aluminum baffles? I was considering a titanium body and stainless steel baffles for durability, since the weight is a little less of an issue. My mac already weighs a ton with the lage upper... That is what I was thinking. Maybe a 1-3 ti or ss baffles and the rest aluminum but I have never built a 9mm can so I'm just spitballing based on what I think seems to work in commercial cans. I think my aforementioned trident has a stainless blast baffle and aluminum omega baffles, in an aluminum tube. I haven't heard of anyone wrecking one with FA, and it's pretty light. Probably not the best sound reduction compared to newer designs though. I looked at radials for my big whisper can but decided it might stress me out making them on a manual lathe. I suppose some very careful machining with some form tools might yield the accuracy needed to get them thin enough to still be reasonably light. I ended up deciding on k-baffles on that one but we still don't know how that's going to turn out. That might be an option too but k's are a bit of work, and plenty of people have form1'd shitty sounding k's, so there is (I think) a lot more risk with that design you won't get it right. I'm not experienced building cans, just been doing a lot of reading lately because I'm in about the same spot you are. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 2:39:57 PM EDT
[#28]
I think if you did it on a manual lathe, best way might be to make a curved tool first out of tool steel. Turn, grind relief, and heat treat.
Then use that tool to cut the radius on each baffle. Good vid here on manual radius turning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMMuNR020Vw They make a good point tho... unless you have a pretty beefy lathe, using a curved tool to cut the baffles themselves on SS might be a bridge too far. But maybe you could do stepped rough cuts first like in this video to get most of the material, then switch over to the radius tool you made to finish it. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 4:15:48 PM EDT
[#29]
I haven’t invested a lot of time into it but my experience with form tools has not been great. Once that contoured edge is fully engaged, it get chattery in a hurry. I’ve only done much smaller tools that way. I am not a machinist though.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 6:18:53 PM EDT
[#30]
One of the things to keep in mind ehen cutting Stainless steel is it work hardens very fast so you have to cut fast to keep ahead of it.
I found on smaller lathes HSS works better then carbide on SS. I have a 10 inch Atlas and also a Enco 110 13x40 The atlas does well with HSS & stainless work hardens with carbide and chips it ruining the insert. The Enco eats stainless with carbide like it's A36 butter steel. I swore after making the entire can out of stainless that that wasn't ever happening again. When chips come off they are so hot they melt into your skin so you get the double pleasure of not only getting burned but pulling & peeling them back out of you. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 8:07:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#31]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/9/2023 9:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTHP: One of the things to keep in mind ehen cutting Stainless steel is it work hardens very fast so you have to cut fast to keep ahead of it. I found on smaller lathes HSS works better then carbide on SS. I have a 10 inch Atlas and also a Enco 110 13x40 The atlas does well with HSS & stainless work hardens with carbide and chips it ruining the insert. The Enco eats stainless with carbide like it's A36 butter steel. I swore after making the entire can out of stainless that that wasn't ever happening again. When chips come off they are so hot they melt into your skin so you get the double pleasure of not only getting burned but pulling & peeling them back out of you. I've got an optimum D280 cnc lathe I picked up from a trade school auction awhile back. Cleaned it up but never fired it up. I believe it's approximately 10" swing. I don't think its capable of threading as-is (the main leadscrew isn't mechanically linked to anything and I don't think it has the right spindle/motor encoder to do threading operations) but it might just be the ticket for making some radius or other oddball shape baffles. Thanks, good to know on the tooling, OTHP. I don't really have much tooling for it, yet. I've got a few HSS blanks, tho. Skin and Melt are not two words I like to see in the same sentence, usually... eta: I'm pretty sure this D280 is a clone of a very common Grizzley (and others) rebadged lathe. Can't recall what the original model/number is tho |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 9:49:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I've got an optimum D280 cnc lathe I picked up from a trade school auction awhile back. Cleaned it up but never fired it up. I believe it's approximately 10" swing. I don't think its capable of threading as-is (the main leadscrew isn't mechanically linked to anything and I don't think it has the right spindle/motor encoder to do threading operations) but it might just be the ticket for making some radius or other oddball shape baffles. Thanks, good to know on the tooling, OTHP. I don't really have much tooling for it, yet. I've got a few HSS blanks, tho. Skin and Melt are not two words I like to see in the same sentence, usually... eta: I'm pretty sure this D280 is a clone of a very common Grizzley (and others) rebadged lathe. Can't recall what the original model/number is tho Once you get it where it will thread you will be set. If you have access to a single point tool grinder that makes a whole world of difference as far as making repeatable HSS lathe bits. I use a gorton 265 that I modded since it was only setup out of the factory for gorton pantograph bits. It is a world of difference from hand grinding angles and depth of grind are now repeatable and look like I ordered them from a tool Mfg. Hand grinding is good and all but if you,need or want to make radius cutters that are repeatable when they need touched up the single lip tool grinder is perfect. Ya the stainless was not fun at all. Ended up breaking a major safety rule and just sucked it up to tight long sleeves and lots of extra caution. ( not advice nor do I recomend it) Your CNC setup will at least allow you to close the doors or step back out of the way once running to avoid the hot swarf & chips. Making the can is gonna be your easy part. Design & setup are where you lose all the time |
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Posted: 12/10/2023 3:19:52 AM EDT
[#34]
So playing around with the lathe a little and studying the manual...
Yeah, its CNC only. There's no lever on the saddle to mechanically engage the leadscrew nut into the leadscrew. It is simply engaged, period. And the only thing that can turn that leadscrew is the servo motor coupled to it out past the tailstock. Also, no gearing to tie the motor to the leadscrew nut under any circumstances. Also, looking closer... there are in fact two speed sensors... so I think there may very well be a way to turn threads on this, as-is.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileThe manual is kind of confusing since it refers to the non cnc version of the lathe, I think. Shows components like the back-gears and lead screw nut lever that aren't on my lathe. |
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Posted: 12/10/2023 3:47:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#35]
[Deleted]
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2023 1:16:08 PM EDT
[#36]
@1Andy2
It probably got the CNC treatment after it was purchased. Best bet would be to try and find documentation on the CNC aspect. Your machine looks to be great shape now to figure it out and get some type of computer and software to drive it. Gonna ned to learn some CAD software too if you don't know it already. I've thought about tossing a CNC setup on one of my lathes or mills but between the conversion and then all the other learning curves I just don't have time. When I want to make the same part over & over I setup stops. Makes a pretty consistant and repeatable part just gotta stand there and either crank knobs or push power feed buttons/levers. |
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Posted: 12/10/2023 2:34:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#37]
A little CAD experience with rhino. The way to make a baffle in that would be to use the line tools to make the profile shape you want, then the "sweep" command to produce a 360 degree surface of that shape.
I've used 3 axis cnc routers before but never a cnc lathe. Yeah, it will be a learning experience. But I would like to make some other stuff down the road with it like maybe some bullet swaging dies or something. eta: The manual did come with a "Industry controls" CD. And it has a "Industry Controls" box for what I think is the pulse generator. I'll try it on all that first and see if I can just do everything I need without re-inventing the wheel. As a backup, I do still have a UCNC board for a CNC mill project I was going to do awhile back. Very powerful and feature rich system tho a pretty steep learning curve. |
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Posted: 12/10/2023 2:51:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Is there any advantage to going SS baffles the whole way or does most of the erosion happen on the first one or two?
Also, looking at the metal supplier places, they talk about their stainless steel bar stock coming fully annealed. Should I heat treat the baffles after machining? |
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Posted: 12/10/2023 3:42:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BASE]
[#39]
I don’t think SS is needed for a pistol can, even an smg, but I’d use 17-4 if I were going that way. It machines really nice except for the razor sharp strings. You can supposedly heat treat in an oven on cleaning cycle (H900).
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Posted: 12/11/2023 10:41:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Cool.
Are there any pros/cons for engraving the endcap vs the body? Other than the endcap being a bit easier to engrave, I guess? |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 9:54:28 AM EDT
[#41]
The advantage was the endcap was more likely to survive and you could go thinner on the tube.
Correct me if I'm wrong, thought ATF was demanding the tube be engraved now. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 4:04:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The advantage was the endcap was more likely to survive and you could go thinner on the tube. Correct me if I'm wrong, thought ATF was demanding the tube be engraved now. I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong (I don't know) but the ATF also says that endcaps are suppressors all by themselves. Note that no amount of internal inconsistency should be taken as proof for or against anything else the ATF says. I don't know why they'd have a problem with the endcap being engraved. Its just as readily visible as the tube. |
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Posted: 12/16/2023 11:57:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#43]
[Deleted]
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CT, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 2:42:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#44]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 12/18/2023 3:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#45]
Please just ignore him, guys
My current game plan is to go titanium tube, SS endcap, SS first baffle, then aluminum baffles the rest of the way. All radials. Gun/inboard end will be ASR thread to fit what I guess is kind of the industry standard these days. |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 5:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Please exit the forum. Thank you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By User55645: Originally Posted By AROKIE: what a shitty comment, this isnt GD. gtfo with that BS...ffs grow up. Folks cant ask questions in a DIY suppressor sub forum now? Then why did you feel the need to post a GD comment? Not to mention, I did provide him w/ enough info to get what he required. He just didn't like that he had to do some work. Originally Posted By NWRed: You had to quote him for me to see it .......so take that as a clue ?  OMG, you used the ignore button. How edgy of you...oh wait... Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Wait... so what about all the factory suppressors people bought that can be disassembled? I don't disbelieve you but... if an end cap is a suppressor in and of itself, how does anyone legally F1 a suppressor? Get two stamps? Or more? Do you have to weld the end cap to the body before you're allowed to drill the center hole? Or is this now one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" kinds of things by design? I don't have a 5 axis live tool machining center nor do I have the ability to cast steel in my back yard... Disassembling a suppressor isn't an issue. End caps should've always been treated like silencers, it's what I've been saying for years. Literally every part of you silencer is a silencer, yet you only used 1 stamp. Drilling an end cap would be no different than drilling a baffle. You better have an approved Form 1 for either/both. The reason they should've always been seen as silencers is because they fit the definition. The variances given were because those Mfr's made it so their end caps didn't fit the definition. Please exit the forum. Thank you. Done. Well, at least this thread. Originally Posted By AROKIE: what a shitty comment, this isnt GD. gtfo with that BS...ffs grow up. Folks cant ask questions in a DIY suppressor sub forum now? People are always welcome to ask appropriate questions. |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 5:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: prebans]
[#47]
[Deleted]
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 9:16:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: I could go post over in the Reddit forum, if you prefer. The Reddit Form 1 forum is actually congenial and helpful even if they lack your experience and knowledge. It’s tough to give Form 1 can advice anymore since it’s been officially pushed into mostly scratch built over adaptations. It’s frustrating all around. The golden era of grassroots activity and forum growth & communication is pretty much over. Good luck to OP. |
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