Originally Posted By MK318:
This isn’t going to be a popular take but in 2024 the MP5 isn’t a great choice. I love the MP5, I was issued one and carried it every chance I got. It is an accurate and smooth shooting gun. However, it is a heavy for what it is due to its construction, with an antiquated manual of arms, no last round bolt hold open, a tight magazine well and a clumsy optics mounting arrangement. If I am going to sacrifice ballistically, I want to benefit in other areas. Size and weight being paramount. There are better options out there, the B&T APC9K which is what the Army just selected. https://www.recoilweb.com/bt-u-s-army-scw-limited-commemorative-edition-apc9k-163735.html
Another option would be the MPX which shares the same manual of arms as the M4. These two represent better options in my opinion. They are smaller, lighter, with a better manual of arms, are set up out of the box for optics and lights. They are faster to operate and reload. In the case of the MPX if you are already familiar with the M4 there isn’t really anything new to learn.

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:

I actually agree with you.

Though not on the APC9K choice.  Army bought like 200 units total, that's it.  

I think the APC9K is a decent gun to be sure, of course.  Actually, it's a great gun.  But personally I find its price-point a bit excessive for the mission statement of basically an SMG.  I still think the current (CURRENT) Stribog SP9A3 with curved mags, as the best bang for your buck and best general purpose choice for this mission.  I value the roller-delay, which keeps the action locked a bit longer, for a cleaner operation.  I also suspect that roller-delay lock gives a higher forgiveness and pressure rating of the gun - though haven't actually tested that.

Obviously opinions vary.  But I will say the APC9K threads are not all sunshine - though of course Stribog's problem-threads are legendary and GrandPower basically used the customers on their beta-test program of SP9A1, straight mags, SP9A2(if they called it that? it was their next-gent blowback), steel-lip straight mags, SP9A3 (gen 1 <4000 SN), 40 degree block, 45 degree block, and finally SP9A3 with curved mags >4000SN and the 45degree block (which is still wrong, get and replace that with the older 40 degree block).  If someone reads all that and says "are you fucking kidding me?", they aren't wrong - that's a total mess.  but if you're willing to get past that, and get the last one - it's actually a remarkably great gun.  And to-date, not a single youtube "influencer" has actually run that. The last "influence" ran one a month or so ago with the straight mags, and had problems.  Yea, we know, that's why Grand Power redid the feed lips and curved the mags.

That, and I don't care for B&T's APC9K collapsible stock/brace system.  The rails just are never going to be as comfortable as a side folder.  And leave it to the Swiss to put the notches on the TOP of the rails, where face engages.   Side folders may not look as cool, but they deploy fast and are a better shooting experience (in my opinion).

So between the exaggerated price, the tiny number of units Army actually bought, the fact it's still a blow-back (that's another pretty big x-mark for me - still 1940's Grease Gun tech gun; but with a clever impact spring to dampen recoil), and the imperfect user experience postings I've been seeing, and random details like the stock system with notches on the top - I personally don't recommend investing in an APC9K over a Stribog today.  Also, being blowback, APC9 weights a lot more than it has to, to host the heavy bolt that blow-backs require.  The concerns of the MP5 being overweight, kind of apply to the APC9k as well, IMHO.

Also, I personally consider the PCC a SMG class gun, which is partly why I don't like AR based PCC's, because to me that's just a rifle, in 9mm.  I don't want a rifle in 9mm, I want an SMG configuration gun, in 9mm.   And most of the AR guns still run the buffer tube, which adds length even when collapsed.  

But I do agree that the MP5, as epically bad-ass as it is, isn't a great choice today.  If someone wants it because they want a bad-ass classic, that's absolutely what they should get.  But if they want a really great effective modern 9mm PCC (SMG configuration), I personally don't start with the MP5.  To me, Stribog is the one to actually get.  

I do hear rumor that Scorpion might come out with a roller-delay. That will be cool if they do.  Until then, blowbacks are not an acceptable technology choice.  And in the end, APC9 is yet another heavy blowback - though better done than most.  Stribog is a lighter gun, with milder recoil impulse, pleasant to run, and half the price.  So to OP's poll: My vote is neither - both of those are out of date and lesser experiences than other options.

Originally Posted By MK318:



Look I get it, you spent money on your MP5 and feel the need to justify it. The MP5 is an outstanding platform but don’t fool yourself, on the clock it is S-L-O-W. The entire process. Most people shoot until click, reach up and pull back the cocking handle, reaching back dropping the mag, reloading into a very tight magwell that isn’t flailed even a little bit, fully seating the mag and then reaching forward to hit the cocking handle before repositioning your hand is a painfully long process under fire. This is fine for an SMG made in the 60s but something like the MPX isn’t just faster, it is like a Lamborghini racing a scooter. As for your last comment, my experience with the MP5 comes from being issued one over seas and using them in a professional capacity. Not from some YouTuber.

Originally Posted By MK318:



Look I get it, you spent money on your MP5 and feel the need to justify it. The MP5 is an outstanding platform but don’t fool yourself, on the clock it is S-L-O-W. The entire process. Most people shoot until click, reach up and pull back the cocking handle, reaching back dropping the mag, reloading into a very tight magwell that isn’t flailed even a little bit, fully seating the mag and then reaching forward to hit the cocking handle before repositioning your hand is a painfully long process under fire. This is fine for an SMG made in the 60s but something like the MPX isn’t just faster, it is like a Lamborghini racing a scooter. As for your last comment, my experience with the MP5 comes from being issued one over seas and using them in a professional capacity. Not from some YouTuber.

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/68059/IMG_1972_jpeg-3179212.JPG

Got the upper together, went with a 8" RDB barrel and bolt kit from CMMG, Aero XL upper, and a BKing firearms rail. Threw on an aimpoint PRO, my Octane 45 HD and TLR-VIRII.

Tested it on my SBR lower with endo mags. One FTE hiccup on the second shot, but ran fine after that. I was using the medium weight from the CMMG tuning kit and an H3 buffer, so I might have to mess with either the light weight or no weight in the BCG.

Only disappointment was the fact my 147gr handloads must have been near supersonic out of the 8" barrel in the 40F weather. I was getting a pretty good "crack."

I'll have to mess with my loads a bit to make it reliably subsonic.

Overall I was pleased, pretty smooth shooting. Not MP5 smooth but no slouch. I think the fact manual of arms is the same as an AR makes up for it.

MP5 is still on the list, but for less than half the cost I'm satisfied with my decision.

Originally Posted By amphibian:
Keep an eye on your ejector spring.  I typically see them die at around 1K rounds.  I have been documenting this since 2018 or so here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=221
Your ejector spring should be like 10lbs new.  Once you get to 5lbs or less it is ejection failure city.

That is why I went with a custom fixed ejector for mine mentioned here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=280

But then the bolt breaks at about 25K rounds for me.

So now I run a modified Dissent RDB that has been perfect for me.
https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733

I finally have rivaled my full auto MP5 in terms of smoothness but a better and tune-able cyclic rate for use on full auto M16 lowers, RDIAS and RLL's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHiJvWyEFo

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:


Cool thanks for the info! If the worst that happens is an ejector spring every 1k and a bolt every 25k I'll be happy. For a serious use gun that would be unacceptable, but for a "fun" gun that's a relatively minor annoyance.

Originally Posted By amphibian:
To clarify, bolt breakage is only with my custom Banshee bolt where I slotted it for a fixed ejector.  The slot has to go right by the cam pin....weakening the bolt.  You shouldn't break bolts on the Banshee in stock form.  

They elongated the bolt in the Dissent to stay away from the required slot for the fixed ejector.

ETA...picture from my website below for visual clarification:
https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/bolt-comparison2-1024x559.jpg

Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:


 My major beef however was poor accuracy with a suppressor.  Maybe it’s been addressed in the newer generations but It didn’t impress me enough to buy one.

Originally Posted By criley:


I shot a one inch group yesterday with the original 8” MPX with an Octane 45.  Did the same with a later gen MPX Copperhead K, same can. (25 yds for both)

Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:


1” at 25 yards is 4” at 100 yards.