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Posted: 3/10/2024 5:37:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
Next year my son will be in an apartment while at college (in a dorm now) and I'm thinking of the gun he needs.
I've pretty much decided on a shotgun, mostly based on cost. I got rid of my tac 3 gun shotguns and then tac'ed out an 870 express for about $300. I just don't get it out of the safe much. Anyway I'm thinking Mossberg 88 if I can't find a deal on something else, it would need, at minimum side saddle, light, Tritium big dot bead. The only thing I really don't like about it is the finish. Also, the esstac side saddle on my 870 has died after a couple of years in the safe loaded. I'm thinking of going back to the TacStar, I actually liked them in my 3 gun days, but it occurred to me that maybe someone makes a a plastic side saddle that attaches with velcro, or I could just put velcro on a TacStar? Wonder if this has ever been done. Anyway, just spitballing right now. I will need it ready before summer so we can get a few sessions in before he moves in to his apartment. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2024 6:11:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GlockPride]
[#1]
I like the way you’re thinking. Mossberg 88, won’t be too much of a loss if stolen, won’t get too much out of it he trades or pawns it off.
Extra rounds, light and big sight as add-one. Only thing to maybe consider adding would be a sling in case he needs to have his hands free but have the gun on him. I like the 870 better, just what I grew up on. However, even the used hunting guns go for $3-400. I bought some when that were used for $120-180 and ended up shortening the barrel to a legal HD length, and the Big Head safety. Also, I don’t have one, but I really like the Magpul Shotgun stock that I’ve shot. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 6:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MK318]
[#2]
I've come to the conclusion that any sort of velcro side saddle is a terrible idea. In the heat the adhesive looses it's.. Well adhesiveness. The velcro doesn't seem to work well with water and people up north have reported it doesn't work well in the cold either. I'd go with an actual side saddle. I am sure tac-star is fine but I like the polymer Mesa Tactical version. It is light and inexpensive. Once it is installed, it wont come out. The only downside is when it comes to cleaning the trigger group you will need tools to remove the screws but how often do you really need to clean the trigger group in something like an 870 or 590, or any shotgun for that matter. I am using velcro on my 1301s but I am about to bite the bullet and buy a mesa tactical side saddle once they release their version that works with the ACRO. I am disappointed that it only holds 6 rounds, I wish it held 7 or 8, but that is another discussion. Something like the 870 or 590 is probably all he needs for now. Streamlight makes their TL Racker which is only $130 and is a 1,000 lumen forend replacement light.
I'd recommend one of the Turkish M4 clones as a semi-auto shotgun is worlds better than a pump action, but the quality of the various Turkish imports is all over the place right now. It would be better to have something that is slower but 100% works versus something hi-speed that might run. Obviously if you wanted to spring for it, something like the Beretta A300UP would be an excellent choice. To justify the cost, it is a shotgun that will last him a life time of use and will probably either retain it's value or go up in value over time. It is a good long term option even though it is $800-$1,000. However there is the issue of it getting lost or stolen and that is a lot of money for the risk. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 10:11:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: I've come to the conclusion that any sort of velcro side saddle is a terrible idea. In the heat the adhesive looses it's.. Well adhesiveness. The velcro doesn't seem to work well with water and people up north have reported it doesn't work well in the cold either. I'd go with an actual side saddle. I am sure tac-star is fine but I like the polymer Mesa Tactical version. It is light and inexpensive. Once it is installed, it wont come out. The only downside is when it comes to cleaning the trigger group you will need tools to remove the screws but how often do you really need to clean the trigger group in something like an 870 or 590, or any shotgun for that matter. I am using velcro on my 1301s but I am about to bite the bullet and buy a mesa tactical side saddle once they release their version that works with the ACRO. I am disappointed that it only holds 6 rounds, I wish it held 7 or 8, but that is another discussion. Something like the 870 or 590 is probably all he needs for now. Streamlight makes their TL Racker which is only $130 and is a 1,000 lumen forend replacement light. I'd recommend one of the Turkish M4 clones as a semi-auto shotgun is worlds better than a pump action, but the quality of the various Turkish imports is all over the place right now. It would be better to have something that is slower but 100% works versus something hi-speed that might run. Obviously if you wanted to spring for it, something like the Beretta A300UP would be an excellent choice. To justify the cost, it is a shotgun that will last him a life time of use and will probably either retain it's value or go up in value over time. It is a good long term option even though it is $800-$1,000. However there is the issue of it getting lost or stolen and that is a lot of money for the risk. Stay away from the Turkish m4s they are all hot garbage except the ones that have parts swapped out and qc done in the US, and those are in the 1500.00 range. I just got my le 11715 m4 for under 2k new. I'd get a Beretta a300 over a Turkish m4 anyway or save up for a 1301 or an actual Benelli. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 10:25:27 PM EDT
[#4]
I think a used m500 with one of the lopro tacstars would be perfect. I'd install a xs front sight too.
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Posted: 3/10/2024 10:40:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scostu]
[#5]
https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearm/shotguns/ks7/
Love mine. Got it for $350 for Christmas. Added a sling , Holosun 503r and Streamlight WML. 18.5” barrel OAL…26.1”. Loves mini shells from federal and Aguila. I did an 8 hour defensive shotgun class last month. Shot 300 rds bird…25 rds buck….20 rds slugs. Not 1 problem. It eats all ammo. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 11:37:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#6]
I like a short stock too. My 870 has a Butler Creek youth on it.
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USA
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Posted: 3/10/2024 11:47:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I wouldn't trust any keltec shotgun after watching James reeves burndown on the ksg. Was very entertaining.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2024 11:55:02 PM EDT
[#8]
You could pick up a Mossberg 500 for around $297 from Walmart, depending on where you're at. Is it better or equal to the Maverick shotgun, can't say.
For extra shells, get an elastized sock for the stock. Quick, cheap and convenient without drilling holes to mount. Got them on a Rossi 410 and a Rem 870 20ga and have never had any trouble in the years they've been on with hunting and farm knock arounds. If you do get a 410 shotgun, you'll need to get the rifle sock and it holds 7 or 9 shells. Don't have the gun in front of me to check. I have a good supply of 410 shells, so why I'm mentioning it. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 12:04:39 AM EDT
[#9]
A shotgun is OK for home (apartment) defense.
I can think of a lot of reasons why a handgun is a better choice. For the price, you can't go wrong with a used Glock 22 (.40 caliber) https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-3-40sw-handgun  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:33:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: A shotgun is OK for home (apartment) defense. I can think of a lot of reasons why a handgun is a better choice. For the price, you can't go wrong with a used Glock 22 (.40 caliber) https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-3-40sw-handgun https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105614/Untitled_jpg-3155990.JPG I tend to agree. For an apartment a pistol is probably a better choice. Not just because of the penetration concern but also because it is easier to hide. I know when I lived in an apartment years ago they would come through at least once a month to spray for bugs, plus if something happens while your gone maintenance might need to enter your apartment. Seeing a shotgun propped up in a closet or something along those lines is far more obvious than a pistol in a drawer. Personally I’d rather not let someone I don’t know, know that a firearm is in the residence. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:14:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: scostu]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Normlizer: I wouldn't trust any keltec shotgun after watching James reeves burndown on the ksg. Was very entertaining. That was a good video from him. KSG did have several problems. Keltec learned from these and the KS7 was produced after those problems were addressed. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 8:08:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DvlDog]
[#12]
Im was a shotgun snob. I grew up shooting trap and sporting competitively. I shot a Beretta O/U that I won with my dad’s Perazzi. I also won a blonde maple Beretta A303 that I got shooting a Winchester model 12. I just had an idea in my head of what a proper shotgun should be.
Fast Forward to 2007. I’m in Anbar doin mah thang. Having just left the Corps where I had been intimately familiar with the M1014. I was scrambling for a long gun. A buddy of mine in the unit I was attached to went home for a family emergency and I got his M4 for a month and when I went over to give it back upon his return I stopped in to see the XO (we had been PFC’s together) and caught the CO in there talking to him. He told me they had just gotten a pallet of shotguns for the IP training class and to go get one. When I showed up and saw they were mossbergs the disappointment was crushing. I pondered if trusting my life to a $150 walmart shotgun was any better than just rolling out the wire with a beretta and 3 mags. At that point I took it just so I wouldn’t look like an ingrate. They had pistol grips and full stocks. I choose a full stock as I am a tall guy with orangutan arms so I appreciate some LOP. MOTHER OF GOD that thing was awesome. I fought with it, I bashed doors with it, it got run over by a hilux, i loaned it out. It ran hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of Federal .mil buck and at least a few dozen of the hundred slugs my wife sent me. I passed it on to my replacement and he passed it on to his. To this day whenever anyone asks for a cheap shotgun they can trust I enthusiastically sing the praises of the modest Maverick 88 ETA: A few months later one of the MPRI dudes catches me at chow and says “hey we got more shotguns, 870s this time, if you wanna come swap out”. I thanked him and declined. I had full faith in The Mav by then. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 10:03:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: snuffy19608]
[#13]
I think a Maverick 88 with the accessories you describe would be a great apartment gun for your son. I own several Mossbergs, including a 590S and a couple 500's, but the gun next to my bed is a Maverick. She's old and beat up (somebodies truck gun I got used) but every time I press the trigger she goes off, and every time I rack the slide she spits out an empty and racks in a fresh shell.
My theory is, if I need to shoot somebody, that gun is gone for a long time. As long as it shoots, why lose the more expensive gun? An as far as it sitting out, if you're home put it next to the bd. When you leave, under the mattress or even just under the covers. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 12:07:20 PM EDT
[#14]
A ton of reliable used pump guns out there.
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Posted: 3/16/2024 12:34:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogtired: A ton of reliable used pump guns out there. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 12:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#16]
Watching abuse vids on the 88, and I can't find a fault.
One thing I didn't think about is, even at 6' I really like a short LOP (and my son is shorter than me) All the 88s seem to have almost a 14" LOP, so that's an added expense. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/9/2024 12:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blain]
[#17]
A Maverick 88 is an excellent defensive shotgun. Dead nuts reliable, more than he would need in any conceivable apartment defense situation. Cheap enough that it's no big loss if stolen or he pawns it off, etc. Can accept the Defender Tactical mini shell adapter (where as other pump shotguns can't) and have 11+ loaded mini shells of #4 buck ready to go. #4 buck mini shell is more than capable of stopping any threat at close range, and is not likely to penetrate far into walls. Other great ammo choices for apartment defense would be the Force X2 00 buckshot (which also comes in mini shell flavor) or ATI's 1 ounce of lead BB shot. Within 7 yards, any of those three loads would be devastating and wouldn't penetrate walls too far. A pistol would actually penetrate far more through / into walls than most shotgun rounds (sans slugs).
I would never choose a pistol over a long gun if concealment isn't an option, unless it was SUPER tight quarters (think going after tunnel rats ala Vietnam) or maybe within the confines of a vehicle interior). A long gun is easy enough to hide with some thought (can also throw old clothes / towel over it, or put it in a guitar case, etc), and if they are detail searching his apartment, they would also find a pistol that was set up to be close enough by to be easily available for defensive use. Only thing he maybe really "needs" is a GG&G light mount and cheap tac light. Maybe a sling + side saddle. I wouldn't worry too much about the finish if it is a gun kept indoors 99% of the time, but can cheaply and easily rattle can it if desired (make sure he doesn't touch the internals).   at the typical suspect fanboy saying he needs a $1k+ high end semi auto for apartment defense.
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Posted: 4/9/2024 1:32:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#18]
For background, the 870 below is my only current shotgun. It is set up exactly the way I think an HD shotgun should be (sling not shown and light is on other side.)
I would probably let him take it, because it's a couple of inches shorter than an 88 Defense. (I know there is a shorter and longer one) I would probably keep the 88 defense at my house just so I have a 12g at home. It could go either way. At my house it would be about #5 in the order of guns I would reach for for HD. I'd probably replace the esstac because as I said the elastic is worn out.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 1:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: A shotgun is OK for home (apartment) defense. I can think of a lot of reasons why a handgun is a better choice. For the price, you can't go wrong with a used Glock 22 (.40 caliber) https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-3-40sw-handgun https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/105614/Untitled_jpg-3155990.JPG 1) The loss of a pistol IMO is way worse than the loss of a shotgun. I don't expect it to be lost (or I wouldn't give it to him) but he will be in an apartment with room mates. I have known his room mates for years, but... 2) He is not as good a pistol shot as I would like him to be. 3) (This is selfish and wrong) I kinda want the 88 as a cheap gun project, I haven't had a cheap gun project in a while. That being said... When he is home this summer I will take him on a couple serious range days and let him make the decision, I would need to get him a pistol safe For reference, my son, about 2 inches and 30 pounds of muscle ago.  Attached File |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/9/2024 2:06:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I think the fact that the 500 series can accept mini shells (ideal for apartment defense) while still cycling the normal 2 3/4" and 3" shells blows the 870 out of the water. The 500 series are also a LOT lighter due to the aluminum receiver. You can set up a 500 / 88 / 590 as long as that 870, just get the 18" barrel model and put a shorter stock on it. You'll have the same length shotgun but with much higher capacity due to the mini shells than the 870. Much less recoil and blast too for indoors, much less likely to penetrate walls as much.
If you're hard up on wanting an 88 too, buy an extra for yourself. This is your sons life you're talking about. I also wouldn't let him "decide" if he wants a pistol over a shotgun. 99% of adolescents / young adults would choose a pistol over a shotgun for the "coolness" factor if given the choice. That doesn't mean it's the best for him in his situation. Asking him which he wants is not a sound parenting decision, the shotgun is in all ways vastly superior for self / home defense. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:11:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: I think the fact that the 500 series can accept mini shells (ideal for apartment defense) while still cycling the normal 2 3/4" and 3" shells blows the 870 out of the water. The 500 series are also a LOT lighter due to the aluminum receiver. You can set up a 500 / 88 / 590 as long as that 870, just get the 18" barrel model and put a shorter stock on it. You'll have the same length shotgun but with much higher capacity due to the mini shells than the 870. Much less recoil and blast too for indoors, much less likely to penetrate walls as much. If you're hard up on wanting an 88 too, buy an extra for yourself. This is your sons life you're talking about. I also wouldn't let him "decide" if he wants a pistol over a shotgun. 99% of adolescents / young adults would choose a pistol over a shotgun for the "coolness" factor if given the choice. That doesn't mean it's the best for him in his situation. Asking him which he wants is not a sound parenting decision, the shotgun is in all ways vastly superior for self / home defense. Do you have any links, penetration, pattern, energy? Availability? Edit watching Paul Harrell on them now |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/10/2024 12:47:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blain]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: I will admit to never seriously considering mini shells as the defensive round option. I have never shot them and have never looked in to them. Do you have any links, penetration, pattern, energy? Availability? Edit watching Paul Harrell on them now Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Originally Posted By Blain: I think the fact that the 500 series can accept mini shells (ideal for apartment defense) while still cycling the normal 2 3/4" and 3" shells blows the 870 out of the water. The 500 series are also a LOT lighter due to the aluminum receiver. You can set up a 500 / 88 / 590 as long as that 870, just get the 18" barrel model and put a shorter stock on it. You'll have the same length shotgun but with much higher capacity due to the mini shells than the 870. Much less recoil and blast too for indoors, much less likely to penetrate walls as much. If you're hard up on wanting an 88 too, buy an extra for yourself. This is your sons life you're talking about. I also wouldn't let him "decide" if he wants a pistol over a shotgun. 99% of adolescents / young adults would choose a pistol over a shotgun for the "coolness" factor if given the choice. That doesn't mean it's the best for him in his situation. Asking him which he wants is not a sound parenting decision, the shotgun is in all ways vastly superior for self / home defense. Do you have any links, penetration, pattern, energy? Availability? Edit watching Paul Harrell on them now The Paul Harrell videos are pretty good. This video is pretty good as well, tests them on a ballistic torso. A 12 gauge mini shell with #4 buckshot is very similar in performance to a 20 gauge shotgun with buckshot. More than effective enough (and still much more so than any handgun) with more capacity and less recoil. Keep in mind, he's using a 14" barrel shockwave in the below video, so a 18"-20" barrel will produce even better performance than that!  How LETHAL is a 12 Gauge Mini Shell??? (Shockwave 590s vs Human Torso) |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:40:21 PM EDT
[#23]
No one ever asks me but I think a 410 youth with the fancy 410 handgun ammo would work well for home defense.
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SOM
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:59:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dogtired: No one ever asks me but I think a 410 youth with the fancy 410 handgun ammo would work well for home defense. It would, and 4 pellets of 000 buck is nothing to sneeze at (half the payload of a 12 gauge). However, from what I have seen, the 410 590s are pricier than the cheap 12 gauge home defense guns, harder to find, and less reliable. Also, there is something to having the ammo compatibility of a 12 gauge (can find ammo literally anywhere). |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 2:06:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: The Paul Harrell videos are pretty good. This video is pretty good as well, tests them on a ballistic torso. A 12 gauge mini shell with #4 buckshot is very similar in performance to a 20 gauge shotgun with buckshot. More than effective enough (and still much more so than any handgun) with more capacity and less recoil. Keep in mind, he's using a 14" barrel shockwave in the below video, so a 18"-20" barrel will produce even better performance than that!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CahJG5_QOk0Gonna stick with 2.75 00. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/11/2024 2:47:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Everything I have seen kinda steers me away from the mini shells. Gonna stick with 2.75 00. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Originally Posted By Blain: The Paul Harrell videos are pretty good. This video is pretty good as well, tests them on a ballistic torso. A 12 gauge mini shell with #4 buckshot is very similar in performance to a 20 gauge shotgun with buckshot. More than effective enough (and still much more so than any handgun) with more capacity and less recoil. Keep in mind, he's using a 14" barrel shockwave in the below video, so a 18"-20" barrel will produce even better performance than that! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CahJG5_QOk0Gonna stick with 2.75 00. Oh? What do you mean? You don't think 15 .24 caliber pellets at 1,200 fps will drop a man? You must not like / trust pistols very much then. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 6:52:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Stay away from the Turkish m4s they are all hot garbage except the ones that have parts swapped out and qc done in the US, and those are in the 1500.00 range. I just got my le 11715 m4 for under 2k new. I'd get a Beretta a300 over a Turkish m4 anyway or save up for a 1301 or an actual Benelli. @tarheel7734 Have you seen or followed the recent reviews of the MAC 1014's reference the improvements over prior clone offerings? I've run both of mine w/o issue thus far (few hundred rounds), no peening of the gas pistons or bolt face which was the problem on earlier offerings. Eats everything except the light sub-1200 FPS target loads. 100% parts compatible with the Benelli. I swapped out the hammer for a US made one and the HG's to US made as well as the shell follower to be 922(r) compliant with the extended magazine tube. Seems some folks can't accept the fact a clone import can actually function as designed at 1/3rd of the cost. Five slugs at 50 yards...  The first one I bought... added the Mesa Tactical side saddle and MLok firearm...  Liked it so much, I bought a second one...  For just under $375 shipped... not a bad deal. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/11/2024 7:37:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Where did you get it for $375 shipped?
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Posted: 4/11/2024 7:44:59 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 4/11/2024 8:28:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bowhntr6pt]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: Where did you get it for $375 shipped? @Blain BattleHawk Armory MAC 1014 12 GA 18.5" 3" Chamber 5+1 Gas Operated Polymer Pistol Grip Shotgun Product Code: MAC21000120 UPC: 7235514402541321.84321.84 Subtotal321.84 Tax22.53 Shipping/Handling29.95 Order Total374.32 My Marine finish was $7 dollars more... MAC 1014 Marine Pistol Grip 12 GA 3" Chamber 18.5" 5+1 Nickel Finish Polymer Stock Shotgun Product Code: MAC21000153 UPC: 7235514443201338.57338.57 Subtotal338.57 Tax23.70 Shipping/Handling19.95 Order Total382.22 ETA- THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE A $20 TRANSFER FEE AT MY FFL. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:52:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: Oh? What do you mean? You don't think 15 .24 caliber pellets at 1,200 fps will drop a man? You must not like / trust pistols very much then. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:59:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Stoping power is about 20% of that decision, reliability being most of the rest. I'm not gonna look for a gun just to run mini shells, and a small amount of familiarity on my part. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Originally Posted By Blain: Oh? What do you mean? You don't think 15 .24 caliber pellets at 1,200 fps will drop a man? You must not like / trust pistols very much then. Not sure what you're on about? Minishells are 100% reliable in any Mossberg series pump shotgun with the Defender Tactical adapter. You were just going on and on about the Maverick 88 (Mossberg). |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 1:13:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: Not sure what you're on about? Minishells are 100% reliable in any Mossberg series pump shotgun with the Defender Tactical adapter. You were just going on and on about the Maverick 88 (Mossberg). |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 10:44:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: @tarheel7734 Have you seen or followed the recent reviews of the MAC 1014's reference the improvements over prior clone offerings? I've run both of mine w/o issue thus far (few hundred rounds), no peening of the gas pistons or bolt face which was the problem on earlier offerings. Eats everything except the light sub-1200 FPS target loads. 100% parts compatible with the Benelli. I swapped out the hammer for a US made one and the HG's to US made as well as the shell follower to be 922(r) compliant with the extended magazine tube. Seems some folks can't accept the fact a clone import can actually function as designed at 1/3rd of the cost. Five slugs at 50 yards... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/NWZ49P.jpg The first one I bought... added the Mesa Tactical side saddle and MLok firearm... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/924/D82eEX.jpg Liked it so much, I bought a second one... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/rnaFLV.jpg For just under $375 shipped... not a bad deal. I can't stand Him or his channel. He is far from a nonbiased reviewer and skews his reviews and test results towards his sponsors and his intended outcome. I have also seen plenty of other tests by other people of many different Turkish clones, and the only ones that really held up were the ones that were priced over 1k and closer to 1500 and had 90%of the parts replaced and a crap load of qc done after they were received. At that point, ill just get my mil discount le m4 thats under 1800.00. I have yet to see a stock clone keep up with durability tests of an original M4. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:06:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Sorry dude, I'm just not interested in mini shells Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currahee: Originally Posted By Blain: Not sure what you're on about? Minishells are 100% reliable in any Mossberg series pump shotgun with the Defender Tactical adapter. You were just going on and on about the Maverick 88 (Mossberg). Well, there are still plenty good of full sized apartment defense loads to choose from, ala my other post. I would def steer him towards a shotgun over a pistol though. Originally Posted By tarheel7734: Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: @tarheel7734 Have you seen or followed the recent reviews of the MAC 1014's reference the improvements over prior clone offerings? I've run both of mine w/o issue thus far (few hundred rounds), no peening of the gas pistons or bolt face which was the problem on earlier offerings. Eats everything except the light sub-1200 FPS target loads. 100% parts compatible with the Benelli. I swapped out the hammer for a US made one and the HG's to US made as well as the shell follower to be 922(r) compliant with the extended magazine tube. Seems some folks can't accept the fact a clone import can actually function as designed at 1/3rd of the cost. Five slugs at 50 yards... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/NWZ49P.jpg The first one I bought... added the Mesa Tactical side saddle and MLok firearm... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/924/D82eEX.jpg Liked it so much, I bought a second one... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/923/rnaFLV.jpg For just under $375 shipped... not a bad deal. I can't stand Him or his channel. He is far from a nonbiased reviewer and skews his reviews and test results towards his sponsors and his intended outcome. I have also seen plenty of other tests by other people of many different Turkish clones, and the only ones that really held up were the ones that were priced over 1k and closer to 1500 and had 90%of the parts replaced and a crap load of qc done after they were received. At that point, ill just get my mil discount le m4 thats under 1800.00. I have yet to see a stock clone keep up with durability tests of an original M4. Can't stand who? MAC is the brand of the shotgun, he isn't talking about the youtuber... (I find MAC to be non biased BTW) No major channels have down reviews / burndowns on the MAC 1014 but the many small youtuber channels that have reviewed it have nothing but positive things to say. I myself have examined one in person and was very impressed by the build quality, was hard to distinguish from an actual benelli. For $400 and under it's hard to go wrong, esp with the performance people have been seeing. What other semi auto shotgun are you going to see near that price range that can function 100% with full power loads? |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:29:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: I can't stand Him or his channel. He is far from a nonbiased reviewer and skews his reviews and test results towards his sponsors and his intended outcome. I have also seen plenty of other tests by other people of many different Turkish clones, and the only ones that really held up were the ones that were priced over 1k and closer to 1500 and had 90%of the parts replaced and a crap load of qc done after they were received. At that point, ill just get my mil discount le m4 thats under 1800.00. I have yet to see a stock clone keep up with durability tests of an original M4. Not sure who you're referring to... there is a rather fair evaluation by HRFunk if you're interested. Like I posted, so far there is zero wear on the face of the piston rods or the bolt. That was the main problematic areas of earlier clones as I understand it and I agree, earlier clones were garbage. What other failure points are you referring to? Exactly which brands are you referring to that hold up? Exactly what parts are you saying were replaced? It would be nice if you would cite some specifics so other readers have a source to go review for a compare/contrast evaluation. Anyone who discounts the MAC 1014 at well under $400 simply isn't being objective IMO. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:30:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: Well, there are still plenty good of full sized apartment defense loads to choose from, ala my other post. I would def steer him towards a shotgun over a pistol though. Can't stand who? MAC is the brand of the shotgun, he isn't talking about the youtuber... (I find MAC to be non biased BTW) No major channels have down reviews / burndowns on the MAC 1014 but the many small youtuber channels that have reviewed it have nothing but positive things to say. I myself have examined one in person and was very impressed by the build quality, was hard to distinguish from an actual benelli. For $400 and under it's hard to go wrong, esp with the performance people have been seeing. What other semi auto shotgun are you going to see near that price range that can function 100% with full power loads? Thought you were saying the military arms channel ie mac did a review of the shotgun.. sorry, I should have read it better.. That being said I have seen a crap load of reviews on many different Turkish m4 clones, and none have been good in the sub 1k range. As dar as full parts compatible, seen swapping original benelli parts causing issues as well causing the clones not to run as well. I don't have any experience with Turkish m4 first hand, but I have tried a few Turkish iver and unders. Needless to say I was not very impressed with those. I can not say whether the mac m4 us good or not as I have not shot it, but I'll stick to my real m4 or a 1301. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:34:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: A shotgun is OK for home (apartment) defense. I can think of a lot of reasons why a handgun is a better choice. unless you live in a commie state with mag bans and registration, then a 12ga pump is an attractive option. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:37:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blain]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Thought you were saying the military arms channel ie mac did a review of the shotgun.. sorry, I should have read it better.. That being said I have seen a crap load of reviews on many different Turkish m4 clones, and none have been good in the sub 1k range. As dar as full parts compatible, seen swapping original benelli parts causing issues as well causing the clones not to run as well. I don't have any experience with Turkish m4 first hand, but I have tried a few Turkish iver and unders. Needless to say I was not very impressed with those. I can not say whether the mac m4 us good or not as I have not shot it, but I'll stick to my real m4 or a 1301. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tarheel7734: Originally Posted By Blain: Well, there are still plenty good of full sized apartment defense loads to choose from, ala my other post. I would def steer him towards a shotgun over a pistol though. Can't stand who? MAC is the brand of the shotgun, he isn't talking about the youtuber... (I find MAC to be non biased BTW) No major channels have down reviews / burndowns on the MAC 1014 but the many small youtuber channels that have reviewed it have nothing but positive things to say. I myself have examined one in person and was very impressed by the build quality, was hard to distinguish from an actual benelli. For $400 and under it's hard to go wrong, esp with the performance people have been seeing. What other semi auto shotgun are you going to see near that price range that can function 100% with full power loads? Thought you were saying the military arms channel ie mac did a review of the shotgun.. sorry, I should have read it better.. That being said I have seen a crap load of reviews on many different Turkish m4 clones, and none have been good in the sub 1k range. As dar as full parts compatible, seen swapping original benelli parts causing issues as well causing the clones not to run as well. I don't have any experience with Turkish m4 first hand, but I have tried a few Turkish iver and unders. Needless to say I was not very impressed with those. I can not say whether the mac m4 us good or not as I have not shot it, but I'll stick to my real m4 or a 1301. And I'll stick to my $1k Colt M4 clone over a PSA M4 rifle. Doesn't mean the PSA M4 is "no good" or doesn't work. When you can come to the table with some objective criticism vs "none of the other clones are good" then we'll take heed. BTW, here's a 250 round burn down (about half of what TFB usually does) on one that already has ~650 rounds on it.  Military Armament Corp...MAC 1014 Burndown...250 Rounds in 1 Hour |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: And I'll stick to my $1k Colt M4 clone over a PSA M4 rifle. Doesn't mean the PSA M4 is "no good" or doesn't work. When you can come to the table with some objective criticism vs "none of the other clones are good" then we'll take heed. First of all my statement was the sub 1k Turkish clones were subpar. That the only ones I have seen that were of quality and actually last in the tests were over 1k and had a lot of qc and parts replaced by the vendor such as the Orthos Arms etc.. Ones I have seen issues with as an example are the Panzer and G force. There are a few others, but can't remember what they were. As stated I have no experience or knowledge of the Mac and need to have someone I trust run it through its paces before I would actually trust it. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 4:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#41]
Decision made. Walked in with a PSA AR that wasn't gonna come out of the safe anytime soon and came out with this.
Now I need a side saddle and sling decision.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:13:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: snuffy19608]
[#42]
Get yourself some velcro shotshell cards from Estacc, you can get several and they come with the sticky backing for the stock. When you use one, you rip it off and stick another one on in its place. Much less trouble than a sidesaddle, and no shells falling out of your saddle.
As far as a sling, keep it simple. GI, Blue Force Gear, simple. Maverick is always a good selection. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 2:10:53 PM EDT
[#43]
I have a Mossberg 500 20ga. with a 22" vent rib barrel on it. I intended to use it as a 'give away' gun. Basically if I ever needed to lend somebody a HD gun, this would be it. In SHTF scenarios, it could be a hunting gun as well. I got it as a project gun to shoot artillery simulators out of, but never completed it.
A funny story about needing to give a gun away. When the George Floyd protest started up, my boss at the time started asking us about getting a gun. There was a protest site set up about less than 2 miles from our office when there were opposing protestors on either side of the street. So a co-worker brought in his AR to show the boss. The boss freaked out and said to never bring any guns into the office ever again. So I never bother to lend him my Mossberg. What's funnier still, there were 4 of us in the office including the boss. The other 3 of us had been carrying concealed for years around him and he never knew. I literally carried for a decade around him. We kept on carrying and he was the only one without a gun less than 2 miles from protestors. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 1:31:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By snuffy19608: Get yourself some velcro shotshell cards from Estacc, you can get several and they come with the sticky backing for the stock. When you use one, you rip it off and stick another one on in its place. Much less trouble than a sidesaddle, and no shells falling out of your saddle. As far as a sling, keep it simple. GI, Blue Force Gear, simple. Maverick is always a good selection. Sling mounting is my concern, I just don't want to put it at the end. |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:03:20 AM EDT
[#45]
So is that new shotgun going to be your son's dorm defense gun, or is it your new project / fun gun? If the later, what are you going to do for your son?
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Posted: 4/18/2024 12:04:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: So is that new shotgun going to be your son's dorm defense gun, or is it your new project / fun gun? If the later, what are you going to do for your son? |
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Posted: 4/22/2024 6:02:12 PM EDT
[#47]
I got the side saddle in and put it on last night. Bought a box of cheap ass #8 and a box of clay pigeons and took it to the range today. About 2 out of 25 would be hard to rack. I think that's the ammo. Also ran some low brass #8 a few 2.75 00 and some 3" 00, no problems.
Still thinking on sling. My buddy has some Rhodesian paint left, so that will probably happen when I finish setting it up.  Attached File |
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SOM
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Posted: 4/22/2024 8:53:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blain]
[#48]
I like a simple 2 point sling, or a magpul MS1 sling
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Posted: 4/22/2024 9:38:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: I like a simple 2 point sling, or a magpul MS1 sling EDIT: actually I'm thinking of revisiting the one point sling in this application. |
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