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Posted: 4/9/2024 11:47:38 AM EDT
I've found myself with a surplus of 139SST 7mm bullets that I'd originally bought with the intention of trying in a 280AI. Decided to stick with the heavier pills there.
I remembered an old sporterized mauser that's been sitting in the safe for 20 years. It came with a steel weaver k6-c3 scope and leather sling for $175. It was just a neat rifle that looked like it had been set up properly. Nice doglegged bolt handle installed. It shot ok with cheap ppu ammo but I'd bought a box of hornady superformance 139SST's that it shoots 3 rounds into an inch everytime it comes out. It's an FN Herstal Belgium? Argentine Mauser I think (can't see the crest on the receiver with the scope base). Still has the military step down barrel and the receiver is in the white. Took it out deer hunting one time and killed my biggest buck at the time. 127" 9 point in 2006. Really fighting the urge to take it to a gunsmith to have the barrel threaded with a shoulder made up for it cause vintage suppressed rifles are cool. Anyway, enough of memory lane. I've cleaned up all the old brass I have, bought a couple more bags of brass and some dies and am ready to start kicking out loads. Just looking for an accurate load somewhere around 2800fps. The powders I have on hand. Varget H4350 RL-17 RL-23 RL-26 h335 Leverevolution cfe223 Varmint Power pro |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 12:05:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By bendigo78: I've found myself with a surplus of 139SST 7mm bullets that I'd originally bought with the intention of trying in a 280AI. Decided to stick with the heavier pills there. I remembered an old sporterized mauser that's been sitting in the safe for 20 years. It came with a steel weaver k6-c3 scope and leather sling for $175. It was just a neat rifle that looked like it had been set up properly. Nice doglegged bolt handle installed. It shot ok with cheap ppu ammo but I'd bought a box of hornady superformance 139SST's that it shoots 3 rounds into an inch everytime it comes out. It's an FN Herstal Belgium? Argentine Mauser I think (can't see the crest on the receiver with the scope base). Still has the military step down barrel and the receiver is in the white. Took it out deer hunting one time and killed my biggest buck at the time. 127" 9 point in 2006. Really fighting the urge to take it to a gunsmith to have the barrel threaded with a shoulder made up for it cause vintage suppressed rifles are cool. Anyway, enough of memory lane. I've cleaned up all the old brass I have, bought a couple more bags of brass and some dies and am ready to start kicking out loads. Just looking for an accurate load somewhere around 2800fps. The powders I have on hand. Varget H4350 RL-17 RL-23 RL-26 h335 Leverevolution cfe223 Varmint Power pro And 2700 reached by H4350 and A-2700. So looks like you may be in +P territory. But as always work up and determine what is max in your rifle. Nosler 7, page 326 has 140 gr data. Their data reached almost 2800, but listed none of the powders you have.  Lyman 51, my first place I look for data, page 210 has 139 gr data. Their data that goes to 2800 uses, IMR-4064 2824 fps IMR-4320 goes to 2898 fps H-4831 2816 fps Good luck |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 12:14:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Well 2800 might be a bit ambitious.
Thank you |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:38:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#3]
Hornady Super Performance loads give me the willies.
I have never been a fan of "maximum performance". It's my belief that a well-placed shot (accurate) is more effective than high velocity. Your target won't be able to tell the difference in velocity, you're only talking 150 fps +/-. It's also easier on your rifle, your brass and your shoulder to develop an accurate load with a reasonable velocity. I haven't had very good luck with Hornady SST bullets as far as accuracy is concerned. Sierra Pro-Hunter or Game Kings have given me exceptional accuracy. Both Sierra and Nosler publish their most accurate loads which is a real time saver. 41.0 grains of Varget with Nosler's 120 grain spitzer or 45.0 grains of H414 with Nosler's Ballistic Tip, Accubond or Ballistic Silvertip 140 grain bullets will do anything you need in 7mm Mauser. Both loads are well below maximum which allows you to try them as published. Both show 3.065" OAL. Reference Sierra's manual (mine is in the basement right now). They have excellent suggestions so you don't waste time and components in load development. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 8:18:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Probably want to figure out exactly what the rifle is before pushing MAX loads in a Mauser. I’m gonna jump out on a limb and say it’s not Argentine cause they’re not 7x57. In another thread we did learn that 7x57 will chamber and fire in a 7.65x53 rifle so who knows. Maybe post some pictures.
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Posted: 4/11/2024 9:25:10 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 4/11/2024 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Procat: Probably want to figure out exactly what the rifle is before pushing MAX loads in a Mauser. I’m gonna jump out on a limb and say it’s not Argentine cause they’re not 7x57. In another thread we did learn that 7x57 will chamber and fire in a 7.65x53 rifle so who knows. Maybe post some pictures. Just because someone fired a 7x57mm Mauser through a 7.65x53, doesn't make it safe, or wise. The bore on the 7.65x53mm is .311" to 312" and possibly a little larger. A 7x57mm bullet measures .284" in diameter. It will not touch the rifling when it gets launched down that bore. That means the bullet will fly sideways ending up who knows where downrange. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 11:06:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#7]
DO NOT START WITH MAXIMUM LOADS! You have a very old rifle and a judicious workup from below is necessary.
7x57mm Mauser is a great deer round and doesn't need to get hot rodded to work well. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 11:16:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Procat]
[#8]
24/30 Venezuelan?
If so it should be 7x57. Worth looking into more but I’m at work and that conclusion was based on a quick scroll through Mauser crests from the little bit visible in the scope mount pic. Edit to add  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:38:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Procat: 24/30 Venezuelan? If so it should be 7x57. Worth looking into more but I’m at work and that conclusion was based on a quick scroll through Mauser crests from the little bit visible in the scope mount pic. Edit to add https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/489576/IMG_3316_jpeg-3184898.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/489576/IMG_3317_jpeg-3184899.JPG Nice work man. I'll check the other side to see if the grasses are poking out but I think you're right. I researched it years ago. I thought someone had stripped the reciever finish but found there were some from the factory like that. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 9:13:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Def Venezuelan. Pointy grasses are sticking out the right side. Found this post that mimics my rifle right down the the serial number range.
"You are in luck. I also own a mint, completely original unissued, non-refurbished, and unfired** Venezuelan Short Rifle (FN Model 1930 Mauser). I did alot of research on my rifle, and that combined with an e-mail confirmation from FH Herstal (yep, they actually responded to my questions), I know mine was made between 1946 and 1947. My serial number is also 35***. So, yours is NOT a pre-war example, but it is still very collectible as it was the last year (1947) that FN made Mausers with C-type broach cut receivers, as I am sure your's has. Read here for more information on the subtle differences between a pre-war and a post-war Vene:" Barrel is 22 5/8" from front of the receiver to the muzzle. Finally got to my loading manuals and they ranged max of h4350 from 46.5 to 52 grains. Going to try 48.0 with the bullets loaded .100" long. Seems to be a common reasonable pet load. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 11:05:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bendigo78: Def Venezuelan. Pointy grasses are sticking out the right side. Found this post that mimics my rifle right down the the serial number range. "You are in luck. I also own a mint, completely original unissued, non-refurbished, and unfired** Venezuelan Short Rifle (FN Model 1930 Mauser). I did alot of research on my rifle, and that combined with an e-mail confirmation from FH Herstal (yep, they actually responded to my questions), I know mine was made between 1946 and 1947. My serial number is also 35***. So, yours is NOT a pre-war example, but it is still very collectible as it was the last year (1947) that FN made Mausers with C-type broach cut receivers, as I am sure your's has. Read here for more information on the subtle differences between a pre-war and a post-war Vene:" Barrel is 22 5/8" from front of the receiver to the muzzle. Finally got to my loading manuals and they ranged max of h4350 from 46.5 to 52 grains. Going to try 48.0 with the bullets loaded .100" long. Seems to be a common reasonable pet load. Not just cherry pic a load I thought sounded good. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 10:18:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: If it were my valuable rifle, I would begin at the start load and work up from there. Not just cherry pic a load I thought sounded good. Did you miss the part where I'm looking to mimic the hornady superformance load because that's what I've been feeding it? It likes a 139grn sst loaded to 2760fps in a 24" barrel. It's only valuable in the way that everything has some value. It's not collectable. Load was picked based on estimated velocities from loading manuals and others feedback. It'll be fine. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 2:55:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bendigo78: Did you miss the part where I'm looking to mimic the hornady superformance load because that's what I've been feeding it? It likes a 139grn sst loaded to 2760fps in a 24" barrel. It's only valuable in the way that everything has some value. It's not collectable. Load was picked based on estimated velocities from loading manuals and others feedback. It'll be fine. I'm just saying it's safer to work up to your load. Basic reloading 101. You have a different rifle, brass, bullets, powder, primers all a little different from the data. All with tolerance's that can add up to "tolerance stacking" and may or may not give you problems. The "start" load has saved me several times over the years from dangerous loads. For me it's been seeing pressure signs with the "start" load. It scares you, and also makes you a believer in "start" loads. If this has never happened to you I wish you good luck.  |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 8:48:28 PM EDT
[#14]
 Attached FileLook at the pressure differences in this test, just changing the primer on identical loads. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/13/2024 8:18:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Published load data for 7X57 is to insure safe shooting in earlier 1891-3-4-5 etc small ring Mausers.
Yours is (as stated ^^^^^) a Venezuelan FN Short Rifle with a 23.19" barrel (short when compared to Gewehr with 29" barrel common in SA armies) Because this is a large ring 98 Mauser action you can go higher than published loads but as always work up to higher loads I picked up a Bubba-ed 24/30 Carbine (17.63" barrel) and at 75 wanted a soft shooter so was looking for 2400FPS or so performance. I mistakenly reached for AA4064 instead of the intended AA4350 (bottles look the same) and loaded 47.5gr (4gr or10% above max for published loads). I was chronographing various loads so when I shot this one I could feel it was stronger and it chronoed at 2850FPS. It would be a safe load for a 98 but not a 91 Mauser. It was not as stout in recoil as a standard 308 round in the FN 98 Mauser. While it is sad someone ruined a rare Carbine by drilling the receiver and modifying the bolt it was why I got it for $250 with ammo and 100 cases and it is a wonderful shooter and soo soo light and small so it will be the rifle my daughter will keep when I leave this earth  
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:59:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wulfmann: Published load data for 7X57 is to insure safe shooting in earlier 1891-3-4-5 etc small ring Mausers. Yours is (as stated ^^^^^) a Venezuelan FN Short Rifle with a 23.19" barrel (short when compared to Gewehr with 29" barrel common in SA armies) Because this is a large ring 98 Mauser action you can go higher than published loads but as always work up to higher loads I picked up a Bubba-ed 24/30 Carbine (17.63" barrel) and at 75 wanted a soft shooter so was looking for 2400FPS or so performance. I mistakenly reached for AA4064 instead of the intended AA4350 (bottles look the same) and loaded 47.5gr (4gr or10% above max for published loads). I was chronographing various loads so when I shot this one I could feel it was stronger and it chronoed at 2850FPS. It would be a safe load for a 98 but not a 91 Mauser. It was not as stout in recoil as a standard 308 round in the FN 98 Mauser. While it is sad someone ruined a rare Carbine by drilling the receiver and modifying the bolt it was why I got it for $250 with ammo and 100 cases and it is a wonderful shooter and soo soo light and small so it will be the rifle my daughter will keep when I leave this earth https://i.imgur.com/PjvMmMh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mpoDXn7.jpg Have you thought about plugging the holes? At least for aesthetics? I've been thinking about picking up a short rifle in 7x57. I have a ton of ammo for my ruger m77mk2. I even think my loads are safe since I didn't really load to heavy. 175s @2500. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 11:23:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Hornady uses proprietary powder blends for their Super-performance factory ammo, and it’s not unusual to find it difficult to duplicate velocity with off the shelf components (without pushing pressure beyond max).
Personally, I would select a powder based on potential accuracy, work my way up to an accurate load snd if the velocity was a bit less than the factory Super Performance, just shrug and carry on. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 5:44:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bendigo78]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Hornady uses proprietary powder blends for their Super-performance factory ammo, and it’s not unusual to find it difficult to duplicate velocity with off the shelf components (without pushing pressure beyond max). Personally, I would select a powder based on potential accuracy, work my way up to an accurate load snd if the velocity was a bit less than the factory Super Performance, just shrug and carry on. Copy that, I am trying to mimic the accuracy that the superformance is giving while being in that 2700fps range with the 139SST and with the powders on hand. That said.... @dryflash3 you were absolutely correct about the load. I was 3 tenths under the hornady's manual for max and was 250fps over their velocity. Accuracy wasnt great. Recoil was stout but there wasn't much pressure signs. Primers were flatter than factory loads but not what I expected after that first shots recoil. If I hadn't of drug the chrono out I'd still known I should cut the charge way back but I'd probably of fired the rest. Off to pull bullets and carefully look at my powder. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 10:55:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bendigo78: Copy that, I am trying to mimic the accuracy that the superformance is giving while being in that 2700fps range with the 139SST and with the powders on hand. That said.... @dryflash3 you were absolutely correct about the load. I was 3 tenths under the hornady's manual for max and was 250fps over their velocity. Accuracy wasnt great. Recoil was stout but there wasn't much pressure signs. Primers were flatter than factory loads but not what I expected after that first shots recoil. If I hadn't of drug the chrono out I'd still known I should cut the charge way back but I'd probably of fired the rest. Off to pull bullets and carefully look at my powder. 
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Posted: 4/17/2024 10:52:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Anyone ever struggle pulling bullets? I broke down and bought an inertial puller. Had to use a cheater bar on the hornady lock puller. I went out of my way to not crimp them and theres not a crimp ring on the bullet but damn.
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Posted: 4/18/2024 11:23:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Hard to pull bullets?
Simple technique to fix the problem. Seat bullets a little deeper to break the neck/bullet connection loose. Then they will pull easy. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 8:25:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Hard to pull bullets? Simple technique to fix the problem. Seat bullets a little deeper to break the neck/bullet connection loose. Then they will pull easy. I will definitely try that tonight. I beat on that inertia puller until I splintered a 4x4 last night and that bullet didnt move. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 1:18:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Took it down 2 grains to 46. Velocity is still higher than any manual for that load. Recoil was mild. Accuracy is what I've come to expect.
It's almost mystical for an 80yr old sporterized military rifle with a 50 year old 6 power scope to be this accurate. (As long as you dont expect 5 rnd groups) barrel isn't free floated.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 2:17:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Nice load and shooting.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:18:46 AM EDT
[#25]
That's looking good.
I tend to keep my 7x57 loads in the lower category because I have one Spanish small ring and two large rings. Brazilian and Argentinean. Course I can't really see well enough to shoot open sites anymore. So I am a bit jelly of Op's sportized jobby. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:00:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Procat]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By meistermash: That's looking good. I tend to keep my 7x57 loads in the lower category because I have one Spanish small ring and two large rings. Brazilian and Argentinean. Course I can't really see well enough to shoot open sites anymore. So I am a bit jelly of Op's sportized jobby. You sure about that Argentine Mauser? Differences between 7x57 and 7.65x53 came up in a thread recently. Link |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:25:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Good catch Chilean.
Just must have Argentina on the brain. 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:23:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wulfmann: Published load data for 7X57 is to insure safe shooting in earlier 1891-3-4-5 etc small ring Mausers. Yours is (as stated ^^^^^) a Venezuelan FN Short Rifle with a 23.19" barrel (short when compared to Gewehr with 29" barrel common in SA armies) Because this is a large ring 98 Mauser action you can go higher than published loads but as always work up to higher loads I picked up a Bubba-ed 24/30 Carbine (17.63" barrel) and at 75 wanted a soft shooter so was looking for 2400FPS or so performance. I mistakenly reached for AA4064 instead of the intended AA4350 (bottles look the same) and loaded 47.5gr (4gr or10% above max for published loads). I was chronographing various loads so when I shot this one I could feel it was stronger and it chronoed at 2850FPS. It would be a safe load for a 98 but not a 91 Mauser. It was not as stout in recoil as a standard 308 round in the FN 98 Mauser. While it is sad someone ruined a rare Carbine by drilling the receiver and modifying the bolt it was why I got it for $250 with ammo and 100 cases and it is a wonderful shooter and soo soo light and small so it will be the rifle my daughter will keep when I leave this earth https://i.imgur.com/PjvMmMh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mpoDXn7.jpg That's a cool rifle. That would make a dandy vintage suppressor host. :) I bet my load was very close to that as 1 round broke 3k fps. Going to try the updated load in a couple different brands of brass before I stuff them all. It sucks that these rifles are rare now but at one point they were the savage axis of the gun shows. At some point I'll probably inherit half a dozen sporterized 03-a3s. Dad said that when he was a kid you could buy them out of a barrel for $17. His uncle rebarreled and sporterized them for all his brothers. Here's the only good pic I have of the 7x57. Something about the vintage vibe, I can't bring myself to mess with it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 2:02:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Tried the new load in a couple other brands of brass to make sure the load would play well with all of them before I stuffed them all.
That 5th round.  Attached File |
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