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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:52:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sparky-kb]
Seems this is the train of thought for some to differentiate between neighborhood watch groups and others in case of societal breakdown. Most employed by the man are wearing solids or multicam(ish). Anti American groups tend to favor black. M81 has been around in the US forever so it's readily available and not currently issued en masse to anyone. The homeless love it too, although UCP is taking over, but that's neither here nor there. Most everyone has a BDU coat around is the point, and nobody has "claimed it."
As an example, Spiritus Systems appears to employ M81 tops with earth tone pants as their de facto summer "uniform." I'd imagine 3 color desert would accomplish the same where appropriate. Any thoughts? Is there merit to civilian groups keeping M81 or 3 color desert tops handy in their home, car, backpack in case large group action is required as a response to something? Say, rioters or looters move to the suburbs or rural towns for whatever reason. Is there logic to this or is it simply some sort of fantasy? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:02:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Arm bands are best and simplest techniques for rapid and easily employed crowd discriminators.
Colored duct tape also useful. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:08:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sparky-kb]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: Arm bands are best and simplest techniques for rapid and easily employed crowd discriminators. Colored duct tape also useful. As we've seen in Ukraine. Makes sense. I get that as being king of simple and rapid. What if groups thought it out ahead of time so everyone wasn't wearing the same thing to whatever was going on? What would the modern "Minuteman" wear to wherever they needed to be for their community on short notice? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:26:21 PM EDT
[#3]
The modern Minuteman needs to blend in with the fish until it’s time to be a shark.
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:29:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Lucas from T-Rex Arms did a video on M-81 stating the same things, OP. Being prior service and living near a base, though I served, I don’t want to look like current .mil if some kind of civil emergency happened.
Plus, M-81 is nostalgic for me and works well in my AO until the need for over whites arises. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:34:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Spiritus Systems has M81 tops because it is a required packing list item for TUSC at DARC for students as an IFF. It does not mean it's the right choice for any other circumstance.
IFF around uniform coloring and patterning, whether jeans and a blue tshirt, or some wack surplus cold war camo, is entirely dependent on your use case and the plan. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:43:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: The modern Minuteman needs to blend in with the fish until it’s time to be a shark. And then what? Business casual with arm bands? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:57:49 PM EDT
[#7]
The what is your favorite camo or whatever it's called thread on here has some discussion on this in it. Along with some good talk on camo patterns.
Here, this one. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:58:22 PM EDT
[#8]
What's to stop the fedbois from getting the word that all the insurgents are rocking M81 and then themselves wearing M81 to purposefully cause IFF issues?
Wear whatever camo is locally effective (or other non-camo garb, depending on the situation). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:31:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: What's to stop the fedbois from getting the word that all the insurgents are rocking M81 and then themselves wearing M81 to purposefully cause IFF issues? Wear whatever camo is locally effective (or other non-camo garb, depending on the situation). What? The whole point of IFF is to NOT get shot/engaged by your own side. It makes no sense to dress as the other side while your own side is operating in the same area. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:56:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raimius: What? The whole point of IFF is to NOT get shot/engaged by your own side. It makes no sense to dress as the other side while your own side is operating in the same area. Yup. And I'd actually worry more about your local civilians ganking you, mistaking you for.....jackbooted chinese paratroopers. Or something. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:10:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Brian01]
[#11]
The only thing that matters is for everyone to be wearing approximately the same thing, and to know what eachother are wearing if wearing something different. So if everyone is planning to wear lots of green but one guy has a black jacket, everyone needs to know about the guy who wears a black rain jacket.
Multicam is just a camo pattern that was in civilian circulation before the military adopted it. And it's a well designed camo with a lot of science behind it. As far as blending in with civilians, maybe there's an ethical problem with trying to color your tactical gear to look more civilian like. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:17:54 AM EDT
[#12]
The masses can hardly tell the difference between camo styles. Most people just see "camo." They're not nerds who spend time breaking down different styles on forums. My former mil parents couldn't tell the difference between my OCPs and the BDUs they wore back in the day and didn't really care. Anyone who knows what they're doing doesn't use camo for ID because it's easy to misidentify and replicate.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:19:32 AM EDT
[#13]
This potentially leads into another important topic, which is identifying blue-on-blue when responding to a mass shooter with your own gun.
You determine there's a mass shooting in progress, you go to try and stop it with your own gun, and upon your first encounter with someone else with a gun, how do you evaluate whether this is the mass shooter or another armed citizen like you doing the same thing as you? And I think the best way is to not be kitted up like a mass shooter. A lot of people in other threads like to talk about their "truck guns" and their mass shooter response bags and stuff, and they're thinking of reacting to a bad guy by getting an AR15 and chest rig from their truck and basically look like someone kitted out to kill loads of people. When really a pistol with one reload, a flashlight, and a knife are sufficient kit to take on a small group of 3-4 people at most. So when two people responding to a mass shooter come across eachother, the best IFF is being kitted up to kill 3 people tops. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:47:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Take a look at this pic from another thread:
https://d1ldvf68ux039x.cloudfront.net/thumbs/photos/2405/8383827/1000w_q95.jpg Would any of us be able to ID any one of these as friend/foe based on camo? I doubt it. |
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ITA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:43:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Camouflage, colored armbands, strobes, callsign patches, strips of colored tape on the pistols like french and israeli Undercover personnel do....all work to a certain extent. In the end It boils down to communication and coordination between members/teams/units, which in a civilian setting Is very difficult if not impossible to achieve. A couple of days ago i saw a Pic of ukrainians i think After a raid, all wearing multicam except One with dark Tiger stripes that Stood ou like a sore thumb. I cant find It now, they looked all Shell shocked.
The question on how to recognize a Citizen that Is trying to stop a shooter vs. a shooter or not to be mistaken as a shooter Is very valid. I think Paul Harrell touched on the subject on a video. I have no answer except yes, great care must be taken to avoid being mistaken for an Active shooter. Oh, and there Is also luck that is above all. A life ago i was taught that "in a firefight the first 15 seconds Is luck, the rest Is craft." |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:37:27 PM EDT
[#16]
I think your camo or pattern you wear should depend on your terrain and landscape. But that's just me. I like multicam myself but solid colors are sometimes fine and I'm not sure about black being preferred by anti Americans. I think it's just a stock color and what a ton of people get.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:29:30 AM EDT
[#17]
I'd personally say that Woodland "M81" (good lord, I hate the M81 name) is too common to be particularly useful for IFF purposes. Even looking at when/where it was used specifically for IFF, Afghanistan, it was used to blend in with the common camo pattern of troops they were working with. As mentioned, everyone has it; I bet 90% of Goodwill stores have something in Woodland. So, if you're going to use it for IFF, you'll need to wear it in conjunction with something (alternate pants, arm bands, etc) to have it achieve that goal.
Better option, in my opinion, is you/your group pick your preferred camo for your environment, and standardize on that, or embrace the United Nations of Duck Tape solution the Ukrainians have. Originally Posted By SCR556: Take a look at this pic from another thread: https://d1ldvf68ux039x.cloudfront.net/thumbs/photos/2405/8383827/1000w_q95.jpg Would any of us be able to ID any one of these as friend/foe based on camo? I doubt it. Actually, the Tiger Stripe and MARPAT variants do seem to be relatively significantly different from one another. The guy on the far right's camo also seems to be pretty distinct, but he's in shadow too much to make out details. So, I'd say the answer likely depends on conditions more than anything. If you can see them moderately clearly, you can pick out patterns and make the call "Jeff's team wears Tigers, that might be them," or "Nobody we know wears digiecam, might not be friendly" and act accordingly. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:51:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Spend a week in the field and all camo looks the same
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:13:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Spend a week in the field and all camo looks the same It's not obvious to me what you are trying to say. Are you saying wear dirty clothes? Are you saying the first 6 days are more important for camo? What is your point and how is "all camo" looking the same after a week an actionable piece of information? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:16:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wsix: It's not obvious to me what you are trying to say. Are you saying wear dirty clothes? Are you saying the first 6 days are more important for camo? What is your point and how is "all camo" looking the same after a week an actionable piece of information? Camo patterns are difficult to distinguish when covered in six days' worth of mud, dirt, and dust. You're best off learning other methods of IFF. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:12:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raimius: What? The whole point of IFF is to NOT get shot/engaged by your own side. It makes no sense to dress as the other side while your own side is operating in the same area. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raimius: Originally Posted By lew: What's to stop the fedbois from getting the word that all the insurgents are rocking M81 and then themselves wearing M81 to purposefully cause IFF issues? Wear whatever camo is locally effective (or other non-camo garb, depending on the situation). What? The whole point of IFF is to NOT get shot/engaged by your own side. It makes no sense to dress as the other side while your own side is operating in the same area. Dressing in the enemy's uniform in order to infiltrate is a time-honored tradition, so I hope one's IFF protocol is more robust than that. Don't tell me I need to spell it out further. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:18:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wsix: It's not obvious to me what you are trying to say. Are you saying wear dirty clothes? Are you saying the first 6 days are more important for camo? What is your point and how is "all camo" looking the same after a week an actionable piece of information? Tell me you’ve never been in the Infantry without telling me you’ve never been in the Infantry. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:03:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sparky-kb]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lungbuster: Tell me you’ve never been in the Infantry without telling me you’ve never been in the Infantry. I've actually seen UCP become extremely effective after a few days living in the field. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:24:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Pssssh. I've seen the documentaries. You don't need ANY uniform.
 
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:39:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wsix]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lungbuster: Tell me you’ve never been in the Infantry without telling me you’ve never been in the Infantry.  I'm trying to decide if it would be more fun to tell you or not to tell you. Maybe you could use filth as your identifier? The smell will even work at night. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:04:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raimius]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew: Dressing in the enemy's uniform in order to infiltrate is a time-honored tradition, so I hope one's IFF protocol is more robust than that. Don't tell me I need to spell it out further. IFF should be more than clothing color. My point was that counter-insurgent/government soldiers would have very little incentive to try to blend in with the insurgents... especially when other counter-insurgents would be hunting them in the same area. That would be a very high risk of fratricide, and of marginal utility to the better funded/equipped/organized side. |
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ITA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 2:45:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raimius: IFF should be more than clothing color. My point was that counter-insurgent/government soldiers would have very little incentive to try to blend in with the insurgents... especially when other counter-insurgents would be hunting them in the same area. That would be a very high risk of fratricide, and of marginal utility to the better funded/equipped/organized side. This again works with communication. Dressing in enemy uniforms should fall under "improper use"under the Hague regulations and in theory should be forbidden. Wearing low key indigenous civilian clothing may or may not be the case, however it happens. That said whenever a unit is working in a certain map area all the other units should be well aware of that and that area could be interdicted to others for a certain amount of time, no questions asked. Often friendly fire happens when that is not understood, not when "oops, i thought that UK 2 color desert DPM was iraqi 4 color DPM from 500 meters". Also regarding the "tell me you never been in infantry" story, in my experience every NCO made theit soldiers keep their uniform as clean as possible in the field, because a crusty uniform is an ineffective uniform, most of the time packing list included a spare one. Regarding the smell there is truth in that. i don't know why but i was taught that after a few days in the field a person smell changes adapting from the civilian to the woodland context and smell from a person coming from a city can be recognized in the woods. i think i don't have a particularly refined olfaction as i never experienced that (however like all others i could smell burnt tobacco from a distance and that's very eye opening, as most of the time smokers are allowed to smoke in the field). Rules to minimize that smell signature were no shaving and washing with only water the day prior to going in the field, hand washed uniforms with only water and dried in the sun. Maybe it was just superstition, but it was that way. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 3:00:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Even when you have standardized uniforms there is still friendly fire.
Honestly what would distinguish the common man from the military is probably going to be things like ballistic helmets as opposed to baseball caps. The vast majority of americans do not have a helmet, and even chest carriers are only within us that larp. But on the topic of camo I would imagine if you had anything that was more green adjacent as compared to the tan of multicam that would probably be the biggest decider. On a small scale you can see what kind of camo and kit the average person would have if you go to an airsoft game. Lots of hoodies, and just about every surplus camo avaliable. Flektarn, DPM, M81, UCP. Sure you got people that buy top level kit and look almost indistinguishable from a normal soldier, and I hope those guys are ready to ruin their camo with brightly colored tape because that would end up being more of a threat to themselves then a help. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 11:13:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joeviterbo: This again works with communication. Dressing in enemy uniforms should fall under "improper use"under the Hague regulations and in theory should be forbidden. Wearing low key indigenous civilian clothing may or may not be the case, however it happens. That said whenever a unit is working in a certain map area all the other units should be well aware of that and that area could be interdicted to others for a certain amount of time, no questions asked. Often friendly fire happens when that is not understood, not when "oops, i thought that UK 2 color desert DPM was iraqi 4 color DPM from 500 meters". Also regarding the "tell me you never been in infantry" story, in my experience every NCO made theit soldiers keep their uniform as clean as possible in the field, because a crusty uniform is an ineffective uniform, most of the time packing list included a spare one. Regarding the smell there is truth in that. i don't know why but i was taught that after a few days in the field a person smell changes adapting from the civilian to the woodland context and smell from a person coming from a city can be recognized in the woods. i think i don't have a particularly refined olfaction as i never experienced that (however like all others i could smell burnt tobacco from a distance and that's very eye opening, as most of the time smokers are allowed to smoke in the field). Rules to minimize that smell signature were no shaving and washing with only water the day prior to going in the field, hand washed uniforms with only water and dried in the sun. Maybe it was just superstition, but it was that way. Personal hygiene is critical in the field. Disease kills more than bullets. Personal hygiene time in the infantry in a static defense or patrol base was generally conducted after stand to. And shaving in the field is necessary to ensure a proper seal of protective masks. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 11:16:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sparky-kb]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SIG_gunner: Personal hygiene is critical in the field. Disease kills more than bullets. Personal hygiene time in the infantry in a static defense or patrol base was generally conducted after stand to. And shaving in the field is necessary to ensure a proper seal of protective masks. So they say. Ours were in a connex a few hours away 
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 1:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wsix]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joeviterbo: Also regarding the "tell me you never been in infantry" story, in my experience every NCO made theit soldiers keep their uniform as clean as possible in the field, because a crusty uniform is an ineffective uniform, most of the time packing list included a spare one. . It's literally the C in the acronym COLD for cold weather operations. I guess a wittier response to that slight would have been "tell me you were a private without telling me you were a private". |
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ITA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 2:45:48 AM EDT
[#32]
OR-4 for life
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Posted: 5/17/2024 8:20:19 AM EDT
[#33]
I don't know if you guys are just taking the piss here or not. But. By definition, in a unconventional warfare scenario, uniform and equipment might be an eclectic mix of whatever is available. I think it will probably have to move on beyond what camo you are sporting into some kind of local IFF that gets established, and is not discussed in open forums. But carry on; this is mildly entertaining.
Getting dirty in the field. It should go without saying but after a week or two in the field, in at least wet jungle conditions, you do bear a strange resemblance to a certain Austrian born actor. So this is a highly variable factor based on terrain and weather. And enemy situation, threat levels, blah, blah, blah. Smell. Joe is spot on. You do smell like your environment. If you come out of the barracks and go into the field you still smell like you came out of the barracks; until you don't. If you eat a regular western diet, your shit smells like a foreigner. If you eat the local diet, that changes over. This was all demonstrated to me at JEST in Subic Bay, PI. Also another highly variable factor. If you ever get a chance to take a good tracking class, I think you would be amazed. The upshot of all this, for that one guy who is actually interested, no, I don't think M-81, or any other camo would make a good identifier. But in the spirit of this thread. Uniform of the day. Back in the day, we had "field days" on Saturdays, which included many sporting games. The day before, in the plt meeting, someone asks "what's the uniform of the day", meaning do we have to wear the proscribed PT uniform or what. The exasperated LT quipped I don't care if you wear a jockstrap and barbed-wire suspenders. Well, naturally the next day two guys show up in, jockstraps and barbed-wire suspenders. The BN cmdr motions the Plt Leader over. "Are those two yours?" "UH, yes sir." "Fix it." "Aye Aye sir". Just to say, if you did use jockstraps and barbed-wire suspenders, you could tell the feds from their tiny dicks. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 9:18:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sparky-kb]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: I don't know if you guys are just taking the piss here or not. But. By definition, in a unconventional warfare scenario, uniform and equipment might be an eclectic mix of whatever is available. I think it will probably have to move on beyond what camo you are sporting into some kind of local IFF that gets established, and is not discussed in open forums. But carry on; this is mildly entertaining. It started while drinking bourbon and noticing how much woodland clothing I have lol. Then I started wondering if it made sense to purposefully choose camo so as to not look like the other guys. Really though, I'm kinda over Multicam since it's worn by so many .mil and .gov agencies. For the record I never meant using a uniform as the end all be all only means of IFF. I was just kinda thinking out loud about not wanting to look like the man while still using an effective (for my area) camo that's not really issued to anyone anymore. Running around in camo with bright arm, leg, and helmet bands kinda seems like it defeats the purpose of camo at all. The thread is just kinda going where it wants now. 
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 1:27:34 PM EDT
[#35]
I doubt most of us have enough people to worry too much about IFF. If you have a large enough unit, like Maxine Waters was talking about, great for you.
For me? Does it look like Steve, or doesn't it? I don't have another unit to my 9 and 3. It's Steve and Ted or it isn't, |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 1:43:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KaerMorhenResident]
[#36]
TUSC (Woodland tops only) and One Shepherd (full uniform) require Woodland for their schools.
Lot of MILSIM events run a sort of tan and green scheme and so Woodland will help you if you want to do any of that kind of stuff. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 2:03:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: TUSC (Woodland tops only) and One Shepherd (full uniform) require Woodland for their schools. Lot of MILSIM events run a sort of tan and green scheme and so Woodland will help you if you want to do any of that kind of stuff. One Shepherd also required OD for the other side of the force if it's one of the events with 2 forces manned by the students. But yea. The only reason I have been saying woodland is because it's so available, cheaply, with both gear and clothing. And that's just for the tops. Mix and match anything for the pants. Surplus multicam, desert, woodland, or whatever earth tone pants you have being the cheap options. Yes, the IFF issue has...issues. But I really don't see having civilians wearing the military's issue uniform camo as their primary choice being the best idea in the world. I'm not an absolutist on this btw. If you got it, use it. I get both sides of the issue. |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 2:32:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Smell. Joe is spot on. You do smell like your environment. If you come out of the barracks and go into the field you still smell like you came out of the barracks; until you don't. If you eat a regular western diet, your shit smells like a foreigner. If you eat the local diet, that changes over. This was all demonstrated to me at JEST in Subic Bay, PI. Also another highly variable factor. If you ever get a chance to take a good tracking class, I think you would be amazed. No matter what one does, they're gonna smell like something. Keeping the wind in our favor is not always possible. Avoiding strong-smelling foods is a good plan. A campfire is a no-go, and be careful cooking as smells from that can linger on clothes and hair. Leave the curry and nuoc mam at home. Human body odor is pretty easy to pick out as it really doesn't smell like anything else out in the bush. I like an unscented deodorant to partially tame that, but keep in mind the effect is limited. A buttwipe bath should be part of one's routine every couple days or so, if only for basic hygiene. Yes, if someone is close enough to smell you, you probably have other problems, but, if you can stack more advantages in your favor, you'll likely be better off. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 6:31:53 PM EDT
[#39]
What kind of event are we talking?
Simplistic take: Have MC for WW3. Have M81 for CW2. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 8:56:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: What kind of event are we talking? Simplistic take: Have MC for WW3. Have M81 for CW2. Remember, we are talking about the civilian use of camo. Which scenario do you envision civilians actively using said camo. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 10:25:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Remember, we are talking about the civilian use of camo. Which scenario do you envision civilians actively using said camo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By PistoleroJesse: What kind of event are we talking? Simplistic take: Have MC for WW3. Have M81 for CW2. Remember, we are talking about the civilian use of camo. Which scenario do you envision civilians actively using said camo. WW3: Heinous invasion of the homeland where the draft would be spun up but there has been various problems with the reliability of the federal government, so state guards are stood up with what's on hand. But there is still a strong national character tying us together. CW2: States rights become asserted and blockades are employed making resupply of everything unlikely but something will need to be done for IFF. And national unity is no longer the concern. I'm not in agreement with OP's original theory that we will have to Clark Kent. If neighborhood patrols become a necessity, but we aren't to actual militia level emergency, a uniform is going to be a problem if/when something goes down and normalcy is somewhat restored. The powers that be will use said uniform in a court of law if they get a chance. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:36:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Well now we're getting into the nuances of some kind of event, whatever plays out. Just to add, std SF SOP is to have a set of civvies in the ruck for when any uniform would be, how shall we say, counter-indicated.
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USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:41:38 AM EDT
[#43]
If you're using camo, are you still a civilian?
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:03:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By battlemidget: If you're using camo, are you still a civilian? I hope so. I wore camo pants yesterday. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:25:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Ha ha now that's really splitting hairs.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 11:27:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By battlemidget: If you're using camo, are you still a civilian? I didn't realize millions of Americans joined the military every hunting season. Or when they decided to put on their favorite camo shorts. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 2:06:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alpha-17: I didn't realize millions of Americans joined the military every hunting season. Or when they decided to put on their favorite camo shorts. Are you saying my camo Crocs aren’t combat boots? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 3:31:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diz: Well now we're getting into the nuances of some kind of event, whatever plays out. Just to add, std SF SOP is to have a set of civvies in the ruck for when any uniform would be, how shall we say, counter-indicated. Right. In my examples the reasons civis would need camo is under some color of formalism that's in disarray, but something is still preferable to nothing. That, as far as my civi mind goes, is not the realm of SOF stuff. If SOF stuff is needed, camo is not in my estimation needed. Maybe coordinate balaclavas and leather jackets one night, mossy oak carhartt the next? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 4:47:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: Right. In my examples the reasons civis would need camo is under some color of formalism that's in disarray, but something is still preferable to nothing. That, as far as my civi mind goes, is not the realm of SOF stuff. If SOF stuff is needed, camo is not in my estimation needed. Maybe coordinate balaclavas and leather jackets one night, mossy oak carhartt the next? C'mon. We all know it's either full on Crye the everything. Or we go all in, strip down to the waist, and cover ourselves in mud. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 4:50:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KaerMorhenResident]
[#50]
My complaint about the Wooland BDUs though is that they don't come with any of the new materials used for hot weather clothing.
Say you want, but the U.S. Army hit a home run in my opinion with the Improved Hot Weather Combat Uniform (IHWCU) and Crye's has their G4 Hot Weather uniforms with that real nice fast drying light weight nylon they use for it. Those materials are just quality of life improvements when you're out in the summer heat. Plus all the better newer surplus ECWCS stuff in OCP now and I don't even know if anyone is making anything on par with that stuff in woodland. |
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