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Posted: 1/20/2024 12:32:38 PM EDT
Goal is to bind edges inside various GI MOLLE pouches, after searing edges of fabric.

Need to learn how to machine-sew GrosGrain "binding" tape on unbound edges of nylon fabric.  90% of the time, fabric will be typical GI (200D?) fabric, 2 layers plus grosgrain binder.  Mostly about 1/2" down to 1/4" width of fabric available for binding.  Is there a way to hold the grosgrain ribbon in place prior to stitching?

Have a "decent" all-metal home sewing machine--no fancy features-- and plan to have an actual seamstress give me some lessons using it.

Will also need advice on proper thread and appropriate needles.  Grosgrain probably from Rockywoods.

I'm a total Newb when it comes to machine sewing, but hopefully some lessons will take the curse off most of that.

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 5:03:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d4xycrq] [#1]
Not familiar with materials identical to yours, but when binding a quilt I cheat and use a glue stick to get the binding right where I want it.  Helps especially where you mitre corners.  Once the glue stick is smeared where I want it, I use Wonder Clips to pinch everything together until the glue sets.  Practice, practice, practice.

Edited to add:  once the glue has set - sew with your choice of stitch and thread with a bit less stress than without the glue.
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 5:45:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Back when I went to parachute rigger school in the AF, we were taught to rub beeswax onto one side of binding tape, fold it in half to form a crease, open it up, lay the fabric edge along the crease, fold the tape back over, then sew it in place.

It's a bit of a pain in the ass to do, but if you don't actually have a binding tape folder it works.
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 5:54:45 PM EDT
[#3]
I remember going through a lot of posts when I first got a machine. I can't remember the exact threads that were a big help, but these came up in an archive search.
Pretty sure it's the first one, raf, but I am old and known to drink a bit.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Making-sewing-tactical-gear-and-some-fabric-thread-questions-Gear-Making-Patterns-/10-510481/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Need-Sewing-Machine-Recommendations/10-537092/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Sewing-machines/10-533768/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Heavy-duty-Sewing-machine-advice/10-531204/
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 6:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wingsnthings] [#4]
Attachment Attached File

Too apply binding on quilts, my wife uses this. Apply glue, position fabric and cure with an iron. Then stitch.Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 6:23:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Sailrite® 1" Swing-Away Binder Demo
Link Posted: 1/20/2024 8:13:44 PM EDT
[#6]
I tried the binder attachment similar to what was posted above. It works well on straight lines, but is finicky for curves, corners, and adjoining seams. I made a small jig to iron grosgrain ribbon. If using 1 inch ribbon, you make a small 1/2 inch slit in a heavy piece of cardboard (like the back of a legal pad). Secure the jig to a table, fold the ribbon in half, pull it through and then iron it. I usually use this method and iron several yards at a time. Then cut and place the ribbon in place with small binder clips.  This works very well for me, especially around corners, curves, and tight places.  My Machine is a Singer 4452. Although it says Heavy Duty, it is by no means a Juki. But it works for me so far.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 11:47:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cap6888:
I tried the binder attachment similar to what was posted above. It works well on straight lines, but is finicky for curves, corners, and adjoining seams. I made a small jig to iron grosgrain ribbon. If using 1 inch ribbon, you make a small 1/2 inch slit in a heavy piece of cardboard (like the back of a legal pad). Secure the jig to a table, fold the ribbon in half, pull it through and then iron it. I usually use this method and iron several yards at a time. Then cut and place the ribbon in place with small binder clips.  This works very well for me, especially around corners, curves, and tight places.  My Machine is a Singer 4452. Although it says Heavy Duty, it is by no means a Juki. But it works for me so far.
View Quote
This looks reasonable to my uneducated self, maybe with some fabric glue here and there.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 3:19:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cap6888:
I tried the binder attachment similar to what was posted above. It works well on straight lines, but is finicky for curves, corners, and adjoining seams. I made a small jig to iron grosgrain ribbon. If using 1 inch ribbon, you make a small 1/2 inch slit in a heavy piece of cardboard (like the back of a legal pad). Secure the jig to a table, fold the ribbon in half, pull it through and then iron it. I usually use this method and iron several yards at a time. Then cut and place the ribbon in place with small binder clips.  This works very well for me, especially around corners, curves, and tight places.  My Machine is a Singer 4452. Although it says Heavy Duty, it is by no means a Juki. But it works for me so far.
View Quote


Pick up a pair of tweezers similar to these. Break 'em apart so you have two pieces. As you sew your binding, use the pointed tip to tuck and hold your fabric in place when doing curves and corners.

Doing 90 degree corners neatly, so that the binding forms a 45 degree angle on top and bottom is an art form.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 3:33:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VACaver:


Pick up a pair of tweezers similar to these. Break 'em apart so you have two pieces. As you sew your binding, use the pointed tip to tuck and hold your fabric in place when doing curves and corners.

Doing 90 degree corners neatly, so that the binding forms a 45 degree angle on top and bottom is an art form.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/100647/Tweezers_jpg-3102326.JPG
View Quote


I use one of those plastic cleaning sticks from County Comm for that.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 3:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ike838] [#10]
I have been a sailmaker for over years and I dislike binding,  
On bigger pieces it is easier to sew things inside out to get close and
then flip it over to top sew to finish specs.
I cheat and use double sided tape when I have to bind something.
It will always be a weak spot when you are  straining the edge of the weave.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 6:20:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Binding is an art as much as science.  I cut my teeth on a double-needle binder in the paraloft.  Yes it was as much a pain in the ass as it sounds.  

Two ways to skin this cat, as you've seen.  One is to fold binding tape in half, thereby forming a reference line of sorts.  The other is to get a binding folder attachment.  While this is the optimum method, I'm thinking you're more interested in the first method.  So here we go.

The trick is to keep track of where the centerline of the binding is.  That way you will capture both side of the tape, roughly equal on both sides.  It doesn't have to be perfect, especially inside a pouch, but try and keep at least 1/8" edge distance on both sides.  

So how do we do this.  Well cut a piece at least a few inches longer than what you may need.  Now fold it over to put a center crease in it.  You can also LIGHTLY iron it, to help it stay bent.  Spray the inside of the tape with 3M 77 spray adhesive.  Yes, it's expensive but it actually works.  Put it in place, working the adhesive in.  Some document clips also help.  When working a radius, let it crease several times, until all the way around.  Rub the creases in to let adhesive grab them.  You want to keep the woven lines roughly perpendicular to the work, so in a radius they will look like pie slices.  

Now on to sewing.  If you are using good binding tape from Rocky Woods, then you will need at least a number 18 needle, of whatever variety fits your machine, and a bonded nylon thread, which the sewing shops call "extra heavy-duty".  This is slightly smaller than what we normally use, but is the biggest your sewing machine can pass through the bobbin gap.  You can use no. 69 or Tex70 nylon bonded, like we use, but you may have trouble getting it to pass through your machine.  

You want to sew a set distance from the edge of the tape, trying to keep this equidistant on both sides.  So you are trying to leave at least 1/8" or so edge distance.  You may have to increase this a bit in order to make it around a tight radius, and still engage both sides.  Just take it very slow, and even hand walk it if you have to.  Just remember to turn the work slightly every time a stich drops.  

Inspect the back side often.  If you run off, simply stop, pull out bad thread, clean up, and start over, overlapping at least 1".  So instead of one continuous sew, you may have to sew in smaller sections, and overlapping them together.

When you get the ends.  If you can overlap the tape an inch or so, do so.   Obviously think about where this overlap should go.  Then cut off excess, hot knife raw edge, and overlap sew in place.  If the tape is not overlapped, then cut off about 1/16" long, and sear ends together.  

Don't try for any fancy folds at right corners.  Simply sew to the end, cut net.  Then start another line of tape, with about 1" extra hanging past work.  When done, trim and sear the raw ends.  

When the first row is done, and everything looks good, you can add in a second row if you like.  This one is about 1/8" from the fold side "up top".  Not totally necessary, but will make seam extra strong.  

I prefer 3/4" binding tape, for complicated work with many tight radii.  But 1" will work.  It is more forgiving overall, but harder to form on a radius.  

Take pics if you can, ask more questions, and have fun.
Link Posted: 1/21/2024 8:56:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
Binding is an art as much as science.  I cut my teeth on a double-needle binder in the paraloft.  Yes it was as much a pain in the ass as it sounds.  

Two ways to skin this cat, as you've seen.  One is to fold binding tape in half, thereby forming a reference line of sorts.  The other is to get a binding folder attachment.  While this is the optimum method, I'm thinking you're more interested in the first method.  So here we go.

The trick is to keep track of where the centerline of the binding is.  That way you will capture both side of the tape, roughly equal on both sides.  It doesn't have to be perfect, especially inside a pouch, but try and keep at least 1/8" edge distance on both sides.  

So how do we do this.  Well cut a piece at least a few inches longer than what you may need.  Now fold it over to put a center crease in it.  You can also LIGHTLY iron it, to help it stay bent.  Spray the inside of the tape with 3M 77 spray adhesive.  Yes, it's expensive but it actually works.  Put it in place, working the adhesive in.  Some document clips also help.  When working a radius, let it crease several times, until all the way around.  Rub the creases in to let adhesive grab them.  You want to keep the woven lines roughly perpendicular to the work, so in a radius they will look like pie slices.  

Now on to sewing.  If you are using good binding tape from Rocky Woods, then you will need at least a number 18 needle, of whatever variety fits your machine, and a bonded nylon thread, which the sewing shops call "extra heavy-duty".  This is slightly smaller than what we normally use, but is the biggest your sewing machine can pass through the bobbin gap.  You can use no. 69 or Tex70 nylon bonded, like we use, but you may have trouble getting it to pass through your machine.  

You want to sew a set distance from the edge of the tape, trying to keep this equidistant on both sides.  So you are trying to leave at least 1/8" or so edge distance.  You may have to increase this a bit in order to make it around a tight radius, and still engage both sides.  Just take it very slow, and even hand walk it if you have to.  Just remember to turn the work slightly every time a stich drops.  

Inspect the back side often.  If you run off, simply stop, pull out bad thread, clean up, and start over, overlapping at least 1".  So instead of one continuous sew, you may have to sew in smaller sections, and overlapping them together.

When you get the ends.  If you can overlap the tape an inch or so, do so.   Obviously think about where this overlap should go.  Then cut off excess, hot knife raw edge, and overlap sew in place.  If the tape is not overlapped, then cut off about 1/16" long, and sear ends together.  

Don't try for any fancy folds at right corners.  Simply sew to the end, cut net.  Then start another line of tape, with about 1" extra hanging past work.  When done, trim and sear the raw ends.  

When the first row is done, and everything looks good, you can add in a second row if you like.  This one is about 1/8" from the fold side "up top".  Not totally necessary, but will make seam extra strong.  

I prefer 3/4" binding tape, for complicated work with many tight radii.  But 1" will work.  It is more forgiving overall, but harder to form on a radius.  

Take pics if you can, ask more questions, and have fun.
View Quote


I had a lady working for me at a parachute company that was a master at doing corners. She taught me how to do it, but I never could do it as well as her. Her corners had a nice sharp point on them, with perfect 45's for the folds.
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 8:28:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Yeah I used to do that as well.  When working with parachute equipment, you generally see 3/4" binding on a twin needle machine.  That helps quite a bit if you get your technique down.  Having the twin needles stitches the tape down so it's easier to fold it over in a nice tight fold.  It usually doesn't happen by itself so you need a "fid" to make sure the corners are nice and sharp, and in the middle, with a 45 deg fold.  Especially since you can't see the bottom fold, so you have to go by muscle memory and what feels right.   A very small flat tip screw driver usually works.
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 9:59:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#14]
Thanks for helpful comments above @Diz!  I have some more specific questions, if you have the time.

Just to re-iterate, in case I was unclear, the project is to bind the edges of fabric inside many common USGI MOLLE pouches.  I'll be using a decent single needle home sewing machine with no fancy items like a walking foot or the like.  Since these bindings will be internal, I don't propose anything fancy like going round corners, be they round or straight; just a straight run of binding, cut ends, and sear binding end to itself.  I am hoping, since the edges of the fabric will already have been seared, and any un-raveling remediated, that the binding can be affixed with a single line of stitching.

The machine is a Brother "SuperStreamliner" circa 1958.  It has been in storage for some years after I cleaned it thoroughly and applied a light film of CLP to the metal innards and so forth.  Came with manual, "suitcase", foot pedal, and a fairly large bag of accessory devices which I hope my tutor can identify for me.   It's quite heavy for its size.  Thrift store find.

ETA1: I found this item from Brother which discusses sewing machine needles: HERE   Since I know nothing about sewing machines, nor sewing machine needles, perhaps someone can make sense of it for me and tell me if this machine (or at least a suitable needle for same) will accomplish my project.

ETA2:  My machine uses 15x1 type needles, and Schmetz needles going from thinnest to widest (14/16/18) needles available from Wewak.  What I need advice on, specifically, is the needle point type best suited to my application (see above).

Given updated machine-related info, also need specific advice on optimal thread to use.  Assume I know very little about thread, so please answer like I'm an idiot.  Top (needle thread) different from Bottom (bobbin) thread, or all the same?

Thanks much for your time!
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 12:04:47 PM EDT
[#15]
OK looks like you have the variety numbers (that's usually diameter and length), so the number you want is no. 18, which is probably the largest needle it will take.  

On thread, if you go to JoAnn's or similar, you want nylon, extra heavy-duty thread.  

If you go to ebay or similar, it's nylon bonded, no. 69, or Tex 70.

Also look at how the pouch is put together and figure out which seam gets taped first, in what sequence.  For instance, usually the sides, then bottom, and sometimes top.  You simply fold the side tape down flat, in the direction of sewing, and tape right over it.  

For example, a canteen pouch.  Sew the side(s) seam(s) first, then the bottom seam.  Simply fold the side seam tape over flat, and go right over it with the bottom tape.  But as you can see, if you did the bottom seam first, you couldn't capture the sides seams underneath it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 12:45:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
OK looks like you have the variety numbers (that's usually diameter and length), so the number you want is no. 18, which is probably the largest needle it will take.  

On thread, if you go to JoAnn's or similar, you want nylon, extra heavy-duty thread.  

If you go to ebay or similar, it's nylon bonded, no. 69, or Tex 70.

Also look at how the pouch is put together and figure out which seam gets taped first, in what sequence.  For instance, usually the sides, then bottom, and sometimes top.  You simply fold the side tape down flat, in the direction of sewing, and tape right over it.  

For example, a canteen pouch.  Sew the side(s) seam(s) first, then the bottom seam.  Simply fold the side seam tape over flat, and go right over it with the bottom tape.  But as you can see, if you did the bottom seam first, you couldn't capture the sides seams underneath it.
View Quote
Thanks so much for your time and advice.  #18 needle it is, but I will buy some #16 just in case.  You did not specify needle tip type, so I'll go with "Jeans" type needle in both types.  Will order some grosgrain ribbon from rockywoods, get some thread, then take the whole shebang (plus some pouches) over to tutor's for education and machine set-up.

Concur that there may be an optimal "procedure" for such binding work, depending on the configuration of the pouch.  Fortunately, many GI MOLLE pouches appear to be originally designed to have most of the edges of the fabric either "encapsulated" or already bound if not.  Some, not so much.  

Thanks again, and if anything else occurs to you concerning this (hopefully) simple project, please let me know.
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 5:20:44 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm not expecting but a buddy and I went in on a sewing machine years ago. We spent many a Friday evening sewing around a case of beer. Started out just sewing name tapes and then started meddling in simple pouches. We never paid for out own beer after starting that little barracks business. One thing we learned concerning thread, always get 100% nylon thread. It's stronger and when you burn away then IP's it melts into the hole and seals itself.
Link Posted: 1/22/2024 5:44:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz] [#18]
Amen to that.  Not only 100% nylon, but bonded nylon.

On needle tips, forgot that Raf, it's the ball point you seek.  Great all-around tip for woven fabrics, which is pretty much everything we do.  You have sharper points and even diamond shaped ones for special apps (such as actually cutting holes in stuff like leather), but for us, a ball point will punch through a weave without breaking strands.  It looks like a sharp point, but actually has a slightly rounded one.
Link Posted: 1/23/2024 9:44:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
Amen to that.  Not only 100% nylon, but bonded nylon.

On needle tips, forgot that Raf, it's the ball point you seek.  Great all-around tip for woven fabrics, which is pretty much everything we do.  You have sharper points and even diamond shaped ones for special apps (such as actually cutting holes in stuff like leather), but for us, a ball point will punch through a weave without breaking strands.  It looks like a sharp point, but actually has a slightly rounded one.
View Quote
TYVM!  Ball-tips it is.
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 12:41:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister] [#20]
Besides glue there's another method using a pencil tacking head on the end of a soldering iron:



Join your two layers (glue or pins); wrap your folded binding tape over the edges; fuse tack with the pencil tip (the melted tacks hold the fabric and binding tape together); sew the binding tape down with your thread line covering the tack spots.
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 9:06:16 AM EDT
[#21]
That's advanced ninja shit there.
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 9:51:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
Besides glue there's another method using a pencil tacking head on the end of a soldering iron:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-301e561350f1c1ef6048c74f20165a8e.webp

Join your two layers (glue or pins); wrap your folded binding tape over the edges; fuse tack with the pencil tip (the melted tacks hold the fabric and binding tape together); sew the binding tape down with your thread line covering the tack spots.
View Quote
Turns out I bought such a soldering iron, along with multiple tips a little while ago.  I had planned to use it, in part, in dealing with nylon material.  Thanks for the useful tip!

I also have a "glue gun" with multiple tips, including a "micro-tip", but I have yet to use it, and probably won't given that the sewing machine I have is not a high-power industrial machine.

One of the many feet which came with the machine "seems" to be a foot for attaching grosgrain binding.  I downloaded a Manual from the maker of the many accessory feet which came with the machine and will show the feet and the manual to my sewing machine Guru when I see her early next month.

In the meantime, are there any types of "feet" that are particularly useful for my planned purposes?  There are several individual feet, and a number of "kits" of feet for my machine available on e-bay.  From what I can see, and from reading the Mfr's manual, I seem to have most of the feet available from that particular mfr.

However, maybe I missed something that would be particularly useful.  @Diz
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Oh yeah, my man, I matched my presser feet to each folding attachment I'm using.  The dedicated "in-bed" models usually come with their own feet (and matching feed dogs), which showed me the way.  Now even with the "bolt-ons", I will custom cut a presser foot to sit right up next to it, with zero room for the tape to wander around; it must feed onto the presser foot/ feed dog "clamp" as soon as it leaves the folding attachment tunnel.  You just have to Dremel/file the damn thing to fit.  This is crucial.  If given enough room, before the presser foot and feed dogs grab it, it will smear and not fold evenly, causing much cussing and nashing of teeth.  

You only want enough room for the tape to clear the "U" shaped tunnel, before the presser foot smashes it down flat (with a perfectly even fold); if you don't cut the (usually right) "toe" of the presser foot down, to sit (the main body) right up next to the folder tunnel, the tape, much like a Private left un-supervised, will find a way to fuck up.  

That's the secret sauce; get it clamped down, and get a stitch in that stuff, as close to the folding tunnel as possible, before it has a chance to get creative.  

Find one of the old feet, that will fit in the best with the folder, and then cut it down until it's perfect.  See presser feet for raw edge binders or folding attachments on ebay for ideals.
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 5:55:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sinister:
Besides glue there's another method using a pencil tacking head on the end of a soldering iron:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-301e561350f1c1ef6048c74f20165a8e.webp

Join your two layers (glue or pins); wrap your folded binding tape over the edges; fuse tack with the pencil tip (the melted tacks hold the fabric and binding tape together); sew the binding tape down with your thread line covering the tack spots.
View Quote


I ran the R&D section of a parachute company for 14 years, designing all sorts of parachute systems. A wood burner with a very fine needle tip was the best tool for tacking nylon layers together before sewing them together.
Link Posted: 2/29/2024 7:40:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Like I said, that's next level ninja shit.
Link Posted: 3/1/2024 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
Oh yeah, my man, I matched my presser feet to each folding attachment I'm using.  The dedicated "in-bed" models usually come with their own feet (and matching feed dogs), which showed me the way.  Now even with the "bolt-ons", I will custom cut a presser foot to sit right up next to it, with zero room for the tape to wander around; it must feed onto the presser foot/ feed dog "clamp" as soon as it leaves the folding attachment tunnel.  You just have to Dremel/file the damn thing to fit.  This is crucial.  If given enough room, before the presser foot and feed dogs grab it, it will smear and not fold evenly, causing much cussing and nashing of teeth.  

You only want enough room for the tape to clear the "U" shaped tunnel, before the presser foot smashes it down flat (with a perfectly even fold); if you don't cut the (usually right) "toe" of the presser foot down, to sit (the main body) right up next to the folder tunnel, the tape, much like a Private left un-supervised, will find a way to fuck up.  

That's the secret sauce; get it clamped down, and get a stitch in that stuff, as close to the folding tunnel as possible, before it has a chance to get creative.  

Find one of the old feet, that will fit in the best with the folder, and then cut it down until it's perfect.  See presser feet for raw edge binders or folding attachments on ebay for ideals.
View Quote
I do have some "spare" feet which I could modify.  We'll see.  Much Obliged!
Link Posted: 3/3/2024 9:31:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Yes we are now getting into the dark art of tactical sewing heh heh.  This is something that might not be so obvious from the outside, so I will explain.  Because of the goofy stuff we work in, we sew in a particular way.  Most clothing is thin cotton or poly blends, so you can sew that shit "inside-out" to hide all your seams.  This requires an extra edge distance to allow for stitching together, and then flipping inside-out.  With parachute work, which is transferred to tactical stuff, you cut stuff net, and use binding tape to sew it together, externally.  This is just much easier to produce, and actually a lot stronger.  

So this is where we separate ways with most other sewing communities.  And where you get folding attachments and really start learning the trade.  And believe me, there are several levels of this stuff as well.  To start with, you just buy "bolt on" folders, which are quickly and easily added to your existing set up, and allow you to bind as you go.  An off-shoot of this class is the swing arm or pivoting models, which you can keep mounted, and just move out of the way.  This is for occasional use in the course of "normal" sewing.  If you are at the point where you need a "swing arm", then you probably need to go to the next level.  

Next we have commercial, or "off the shelf", in-bed attachments.  These are much more efficient, but also much more fiddly.  Here you actually replace your feed dog cover with one that has a dedicated folding attachment (hence in-bed), which also has it's own presser foot and feed dogs.  Now you have an integrated system that is dialed in to fold and place tape onto your work.  They are usually at a 90 deg angle as well, which makes getting into those tight radii much easier.  This is a HUGE step forward.  Everything most guys bitch about is solved at this level.  

Then, you have custom, in-bed folders.  This is where you have an artisan make you the perfect folder for your machine, and the goofy stuff you sew.  It will be optimized for what you are sewing, so if your build-ups are usually around 1/8"-1/4" thick nylon goods, the feed chute will be custom-made to accommodate this range of stuff.  So when you are trying to make money doing this stuff, then this level will really come into play.  

And finally, the ultimate is having a folding attachment(s), custom-made for each build-up in the assembly.  This is where you really get into mass-production.  You take one build-up, say 3/16" nylon, and make a custom folder that it built exactly for it.  So a big production facility might have a dozen of these.  And mechanics who set up the machines for specific production runs.

So the up-shot of all of this.   Use the technology, at whatever level, to help you do your thing.  Hand-folding, gluing, etc, can only go so far.
Link Posted: 3/9/2024 3:16:36 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By Diz:

If you go to ebay or similar, it's nylon bonded, no. 69, or Tex 70.
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Originally Posted By Diz:

If you go to ebay or similar, it's nylon bonded, no. 69, or Tex 70.


Note that the cheap 'nylon bonded thread' on Amazon and Ebay, most of it isn't bonded.  The ones that ARE bonded, it's CHEAP bonded thread and breaks far far easier than the good stuff.

There are alot of options out there for good thread, I try to look for USA made thread.  From what I'm seeing, A&E seems to be the best deal most of the time.  If you don't care about color too much, I'd look for cheap deals on random colors on ebay.  I've seen big industrial spools of good thread in random colors going for like $10 / spool.  A 16oz spool will last you your whole life probably of sewing random projects.



Originally Posted By raf:
TYVM!  Ball-tips it is.


If you can't find Ball tips, then Jeans ones work too.



Originally Posted By Diz:
Next we have commercial, or "off the shelf", in-bed attachments.  These are much more efficient, but also much more fiddly.  Here you actually replace your feed dog cover with one that has a dedicated folding attachment (hence in-bed), which also has it's own presser foot and feed dogs.  Now you have an integrated system that is dialed in to fold and place tape onto your work.  They are usually at a 90 deg angle as well, which makes getting into those tight radii much easier.  This is a HUGE step forward.  Everything most guys bitch about is solved at this level.  

Then, you have custom, in-bed folders.  This is where you have an artisan make you the perfect folder for your machine, and the goofy stuff you sew.  It will be optimized for what you are sewing, so if your build-ups are usually around 1/8"-1/4" thick nylon goods, the feed chute will be custom-made to accommodate this range of stuff.  So when you are trying to make money doing this stuff, then this level will really come into play.  

And finally, the ultimate is having a folding attachment(s), custom-made for each build-up in the assembly.  This is where you really get into mass-production.  You take one build-up, say 3/16" nylon, and make a custom folder that it built exactly for it.  So a big production facility might have a dozen of these.  And mechanics who set up the machines for specific production runs.

So the up-shot of all of this.   Use the technology, at whatever level, to help you do your thing.  Hand-folding, gluing, etc, can only go so far.


I have one of the chinese ebay special, but in-bed 90degree angle bias tape attachments.  It WORKS.  But it's finicky.  It's worth getting if you do alot of long straight runs.  But the problem I keep running into is swapping everything out for it to work - feed tray, dogs, attachment, setting it up, etc. - I can hand-sew most of the stuff I'm doing faster, since I'm rarely doing more than 2 or 3 of an item.  It's a pain swapping everything around.  Especially since I have to do a 2nd stitch line by hand anyways, as I only have a single needle machine.

This is one of the reasons it's hard to compete with the bigger companies doing larger production runs.  They have the ability to get time-saving specialty equipment for large serial runs.

And yea, there is only so far the hand folding, etc. will get you.  The only reason I've been posting about doing it by hand alot is I figure that most people will only be making a small handful of items, and I want their first attempts or two to come out decently.  

Oh yea.  Those little micro-clips for sewing?  They are great.  The ones I use are exactly 1/2" deep mouths, so if I'm using 1" tape, folded over the edge, the edge of the mouth of the clip falls right where I want it to go.  Helps me keep track of the tape.
Link Posted: 3/10/2024 6:22:38 PM EDT
[#29]
You are ready for your 2d machine, dedicated to binding.
Link Posted: 3/11/2024 1:25:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
You are ready for your 2d machine, dedicated to binding.
View Quote



That's the plan.  I'm working on putting together a plan to re-organize my house to free up a few rooms to turn into a small sewing shop.  Dedicated binding machine, a bench mounted hot knife for webbing, and a huge table with rack for fabric rolls are my top 3 things I'm wanting to add.
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 12:30:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Posted elsewhere, but entirely applicable here:

"Also visited sewing machine guru who did a little adjusting of machine and gave me instructions on how to do it myself if changes in material/needle/thread require adjustment.  Sewed on grosgrain edge covers (binding) on edges of raw fabric inside two GI sustainment pouches.  Note I am learning on items where the "new" stitching will not normally be seen.

Guru kept commenting on how nice the Brother "Super Streamliner" sewing machine was for its age (1958). Straight stitch, no zig-zag, low shank, no plastic anywhere).  Guru got a good laugh at the $14.95 thrift store sticker I left attached.

Will need to test whether it will sew through a couple thicknesses of typical 1"' webbing.  Certainly, will be able to "walk" it through such, if need be.

Thanks to all here who provided guidance on needles/thread and so many details.  I think I'm off to a reasonably promising start."

ETA: Also discovered that "way back when" there were various "machine-specific" models of accessory "Buttonhole" and "Zig-Zag" attachments made for ancient "straight stitch" machines like mine.  IDK how well they work, but I have a (hopefully correct model #) "buttonhole" accessory made by Greist incoming.   Also investigating a 62 piece set of accessory presser feet which seem suitable for my particular machine.  Fortunately, Brother, when entering the US market back in 1958, decided to use a very common pressor foot attachment system, common to many other machines.  I doubt I'll use a fraction of them, but always mice to have options.


Link Posted: 3/22/2024 8:17:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Good Idea Raf.  I guess I'll copy this over here too.

***

The learning curve to make USABLE stuff isn't hard.  The most important bit is to learn to get the tension right for whatever fabric stack you are using.  That was the hardest, most frustrating part for me.  

The next step is to figure out how to keep the presser foot firmly down and other things that cause tangles or jams, usually under the presser foot plate.  

You figure those two things out, you can make USABLE gear.  It might not look pretty, but your seams will hold together well enough.

Once you get that, sewing a straight line, then sewing on curved lines.  Then it's all downhill as you master specialized stuff like binding tape, making corners look good, keeping fabric / seams together as you sew them, etc.  

For anyone just getting into this stuff, these are some resources I found useful to reference / practice with early on.  First are some sheets with thread tension cheat-sheets.  Note that most of these just mention the 'top tension' - the knob on your machine.  There is a bottom thread tension, on you bobbin, that is modified with a screwdriver.  Be very careful messing with this tension, it's not marked and easy to mess up enough that it's a pain finding your perfect place again.  But sometimes you will need to adjust it.  I count and write down the number of 1/4 turns I do.  








Next is print out sheets to practice stitching straight lines and such.  Though if you have some sheets of ruled paper, just use those instead of the straight line ones.  Print out the curves and shapes, and practice using cheap thread to follow the lines exactly, then learn to follow specific distances OFF of the lines.  IE, pretend the line is the edge of the fabric for a seam, and you want to keep your stitch line 1/8" to the left of the line.  I have been told by multiple people that this is what ALOT of sewing classes do in class and assign as homework to start people off.  This is a good cheap way to learn to stitch straight lines.  

https://www.allfreesewing.com/Basics-and-Tutorials/Sewing-Machine-Paper-Practice-Sheets-NSM2020

Next is x-box practice.  This is pretty easy to do if you can do straight lines.  There are a number of patterns you can follow to complete these.  If you look at gear, this is what is used alot of time to hold webbing in place - it has the best ability to resist having webbing torn free.  It's also used on things like velcro pieces, etc. to hold them in place.  I'm posting these mostly for the 2 different patterns on them.  But try them out if you want.





The following link is a good breakdown on different threads, terminology used with thread, uses, etc.  Well worth the read if you are new to sewing, especially if you want to get into specialized sewing like tactical gear.

https://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=nylon-thread-information

Ummmm....you will want to get the manual for your machine if you don't have one.  Also, get the 'service manual' - also sometimes called 'engineers manual' or other terms - for your specific machine.  This will walk you through most of the servicing and basic repairs to your machine, so that you don't have to go pay someone to do it.  You can almost always find copies of these online for free.

For some basic sewing books, usually some of the older books are better than the newer ones.  I'd keep my eyes open at thrift stores and used bookstores for sewing books.  I wouldn't spend much money on sewing books, but a basic reference guide or two isn't bad.  Especially if you get them at thrift stores or for free online.  (some of the older books are free use by now and are available online)  For some specific books that are considered really good books for beginners:

Complete Home Reference Book of Sewing and Needlework by Mary Brooks Picken and Elizabeth Mathieson  -  this contains two books actually, from 1944 and 1949.  Oldschool, basic 'how to sew' books for beginners.  You can find this online.

The Singer Sewing Book.  Another solid beginner book.  The first edition of this book, actually, was written by Mary Brooks Picken, who wrote one of the books in the set mentioned above.  On an interesting side note, she is a very interesting person.  She wrote almost 100 books on sewing and fashion, starting back in the early 1900's.  She started and ran a correspondence course - The Women's Institute of Domestic Arts and Sciences - that taught all the basics of domestic stuff - sewing, laundry, cooking, home maintenance, all kinds of stuff, and educated hundreds of thousands of American women from 1916 to just after WW2.  She literally laid the foundation for modern home domestic information for the United States.  And is a good example of health women's empowerment without destroying society.  Her coursework books are all available online and as reprints btw.  You know.  For rebuilding civilization after WW3.  

Her books are more aimed at clothing but there is some good basic sewing info in there.  Also might be of use to someone, those books will have alot about the basics of tailoring, pattern making, modifying clothing, etc.  

You can find some of here books to look at here online for free.  https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Woman's%20Institute%20of%20Domestic%20Arts%20and%20Sciences


If you want to get into some of the more specific, specialized sewing techniques, and alot of the technical stuff, the whys, etc. with tactical gear, look for the 'Parachute Riggers Handbook' - it's a government manual and you should be able to find it for free online.  Alot of it isn't about sewing, but it has sections about sewing, fabrics, etc. that have more to do with heavy duty use items, like you would be dealing with in tactical gear.  

After that, there's a ton of videos on youtube and blogs and forums on most sewing subjects.  But not alot on the specifics of tactical gear and other heavy duty sewing stuff.  Alot of people in the industry aren't keen on teaching others how to do this stuff, though there are some good exceptions.  Don't be afraid to ask questions on forums.  Forums that might actually answer questions on tactical gear, look for rigging subforums on parachute gear forums.  Also leatherworking and sailing / sailmaking forums seem to have some decent overlap, as they tend to work alot with heavier fabrics like tactical gear uses.

I'd start by looking at your gear you already have up close, and look at how they are actually put together.  You can pick up surplus and other used gear on the cheap for examples.  The more you look at and figure out the hows and why they were put together, the better.  

What Raf is doing with modding surplus gear is a good start.  You can also take one apart, especially if it's, say, a ripped pouch or something, and see how it's made, make a pattern from it, then sew it back together again.  You can also probably get ruined gear that's blown out and try repairing it - take it apart, make a pattern of the ruined part of the pouch or whatever, and make a new piece, then sew the whole thing back together again.  Ask all your buddies and see if they have blown out gear they will give you.  Then find some cheap fabric - I picked up 30 yards of 12 oz canvas (which somewhat mimics cordura) for $2.40 / yard, shipped on clearance somewhere for instance, and have been using that to make prototypes with.  It lets me play with design ideas and learn better ways to put stuff together.  Canvas is also a fun fabric for other non-tactical gear projects.  And people love homemade gifts.  Try making some pencil pouches for the kids.  Make yourself some doo-dad pouches to go into your pack.  My mother asked me to make her some chair covers for her dining room chairs for her birthday recently.  There's lots of projects you can do for cheap that will let you learn to sew better, and alot of these side projects will let you use cheap fabric and cheap thread.  Chair covers don't need $30 / roll expensive bonded nylon thread.  You can use the cheaper $10 / roll amazon special 'bonded' nylon thread.  I'm sitting here looking at my roll of thread on my machine which is almost out, and I've been through almost 3,000 yards of thread so far.  I've learned by trial and error.  And lots and lots of late nights of stitching.  And I'm just getting decent and making stuff look good.  (making stuff totally useable, and making stuff also look good isn't the same.  Look at the pack someone made earlier in this thread - his stitching wasn't pretty, but his pack worked and from the pictures, the stitching should hold up well as long as he had the tension right and locked each end of his stitches down.  And I bet if he does another pack, that the stitching and overall look of the pack will be significantly better, because he learned alot from the first one)
Link Posted: 3/22/2024 8:25:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:

ETA: Also discovered that "way back when" there were various "machine-specific" models of accessory "Buttonhole" and "Zig-Zag" attachments made for ancient "straight stitch" machines like mine.  IDK how well they work, but I have a (hopefully correct model #) "buttonhole" accessory made by Greist incoming.   Also investigating a 62 piece set of accessory presser feet which seem suitable for my particular machine.  Fortunately, Brother, when entering the US market back in 1958, decided to use a very common pressor foot attachment system, common to many other machines.  I doubt I'll use a fraction of them, but always mice to have options.


View Quote



Dunno which set you ordered, but the vast majority of those you won't use.  I'd probably pick and choose which ones you need as you go.  I've had good luck off of Amazon with their free shipping on individual or small sets of 3 or whatever feet.

These are the ones I use the most, other than the regular foot.  A super narrow foot to get into tight areas, and I got a set of 6 x edge-guide feet, 3 different sizes in right hand, and the same 3 sized in left hand.  I think the set of 6 feet were $12 shipped on amazon?  They are useful for making even stitch lines along an edge or seam or when hand-sewing binding tape on short pieces.  The 3 different sizes allow you to evenly space the stitches, making them look all purty and stuff.

Link Posted: 3/24/2024 9:35:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Sewing-specific info for load bearing equipment is hard to come by.  Finding one of the FAA-authorized parachute manuals is a big plus.  I like the older manuals by Poynter, but the newer ones by Reid are pretty good (if not up-dated) as well.  These give you much specific info on sewing in heavier, synthetic build-ups.  

I use a modified box-"X" pattern as follows: put in the box, then do the first diagonal, run across the "bottom" again, then do the second diagonal, and run across the "top" or start.  Then reverse and do another pass across the top or start.  This gives you a "Z" or triple stitch across the start/stop.  Normally stitching across the top, with the start and stop, in opposite directions, will lock it down pretty good. I add the extra pass to give it extra strength.  

If you use this pattern, in a 7/8" x 1" pattern, with 1" webbing, it will hold up well in load bearing equipment, in general use.  With 6-7 spi, and "E" or no. 69 thread.

Thread lock up is an art and a science.  In the heavier stuff we do, you try and get it to lock up, just under the bottom layer.  If you try to get it centered, as in the lighter, cotton stuff, you will probably pull it all the way to the top.

Link Posted: 3/24/2024 9:47:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: VACaver] [#35]
Back when I was working in the parachute industry, and engineer gave me a stitch strength calculator spreadsheet. Input the variables (type of thread, stitch length, etc) and it will tell you how strong your stitch pattern is. It's really quite handy.

How can I share a .xls file with you guys? Will a Dropbox link work here?
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 12:57:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VACaver:
Back when I was working in the parachute industry, and engineer gave me a stitch strength calculator spreadsheet. Input the variables (type of thread, stitch length, etc) and it will tell you how strong your stitch pattern is. It's really quite handy.

How can I share a .xls file with you guys? Will a Dropbox link work here?
View Quote



It should.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 12:58:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Diz:
Sewing-specific info for load bearing equipment is hard to come by.  Finding one of the FAA-authorized parachute manuals is a big plus.  I like the older manuals by Poynter, but the newer ones by Reid are pretty good (if not up-dated) as well.  These give you much specific info on sewing in heavier, synthetic build-ups.  

I use a modified box-"X" pattern as follows: put in the box, then do the first diagonal, run across the "bottom" again, then do the second diagonal, and run across the "top" or start.  Then reverse and do another pass across the top or start.  This gives you a "Z" or triple stitch across the start/stop.  Normally stitching across the top, with the start and stop, in opposite directions, will lock it down pretty good. I add the extra pass to give it extra strength.  

If you use this pattern, in a 7/8" x 1" pattern, with 1" webbing, it will hold up well in load bearing equipment, in general use.  With 6-7 spi, and "E" or no. 69 thread.

Thread lock up is an art and a science.  In the heavier stuff we do, you try and get it to lock up, just under the bottom layer.  If you try to get it centered, as in the lighter, cotton stuff, you will probably pull it all the way to the top.

View Quote


Yea, I make sure to lock all my stitches, on both ends.  I hate seeing stitches unravel on perfectly good gear.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:55:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By marnsdorff:


Yea, I make sure to lock all my stitches, on both ends.  I hate seeing stitches unravel on perfectly good gear.
View Quote
First thing my "Sewing Guru" impressed on me.  Well, after loading the bobbin and so forth.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:57:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VACaver:
Back when I was working in the parachute industry, and engineer gave me a stitch strength calculator spreadsheet. Input the variables (type of thread, stitch length, etc) and it will tell you how strong your stitch pattern is. It's really quite handy.

How can I share a .xls file with you guys? Will a Dropbox link work here?
View Quote
Share the file.  It's up to folks to have programs to access it.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 2:09:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VACaver] [#40]
OK...here ya go.

Enter in the correct values to find out how strong your stitch is.

Stitch Strength Calculator

FYI, you can download the file: FILE>DOWNLOAD
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 3:21:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VACaver:
OK...here ya go.

Enter in the correct values to find out how strong your stitch is.

Stitch Strength Calculator
View Quote
Works fine on my limited laptop, with just a couple of intermediary clicks.  TYVM!
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 5:27:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Got it, thanks man!
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 6:14:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Great share brother.  For those of you who use the civvie numbers, your size "E" thread is no 69, or Tex70.
Link Posted: 3/28/2024 2:00:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Many thanks to @marmsdorff for very valuable suggestions HERE

Have used 1958 straight-stitch all-metal Brother "Super Streamliner" after local Guru got it set up right.

Many related items rolling in, thanks to marmsdorff's kind and informed suggestions.  Amongst them are a "Button Hole" adaptor, a "Walking Foot" adaptor, and many specialized pressor feet for gear-making applications.

The "adaptors" were made as accessories for my particular sewing machine way back when.  Time will tell how useful they are, but cost of purchase was slight.

Looking forward to expanding the use of my sewing machine, now that it's working OK.

Onwards and upwards!
Link Posted: 3/28/2024 4:32:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Many thanks to @marmsdorff for very valuable suggestions HERE

Have used 1958 straight-stitch all-metal Brother "Super Streamliner" after local Guru got it set up right.

Many related items rolling in, thanks to marmsdorff's kind and informed suggestions.  Amongst them are a "Button Hole" adaptor, a "Walking Foot" adaptor, and many specialized pressor feet for gear-making applications.

The "adaptors" were made as accessories for my particular sewing machine way back when.  Time will tell how useful they are, but cost of purchase was slight.

Looking forward to expanding the use of my sewing machine, now that it's working OK.

Onwards and upwards!
View Quote


Thanks Raf.  Hope they help you out and good luck on your sewing projects!  You'll be surprised what kinds of useful projects you can do with those older domestic machines.
Link Posted: 3/30/2024 3:09:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By marnsdorff:


Thanks Raf.  Hope they help you out and good luck on your sewing projects!  You'll be surprised what kinds of useful projects you can do with those older domestic machines.
View Quote
Hopefully, such add-on accessories for my specific (1958) single-stitch Brother sewing machine will prove useful.  It will take some time to see how well such add-on accessories will do.  I'm just learning how to sew a straight stitch, so just beginning.

New electric and slightly more powerful motor arrived today--based on your suggestion above.

I have no problem in "intelligently" putting money into a decent sewing machine, or any other project.  Thanks to your good guidance, I have bought some decent and useful items.  How well I make use of them is up to me.

I have much to learn.


Link Posted: 3/30/2024 9:51:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Hopefully, such add-on accessories for my specific (1958) single-stitch Brother sewing machine will prove useful.  It will take some time to see how well such add-on accessories will do.  I'm just learning how to sew a straight stitch, so just beginning.

New electric and slightly more powerful motor arrived today--based on your suggestion above.

I have no problem in "intelligently" putting money into a decent sewing machine, or any other project.  Thanks to your good guidance, I have bought some decent and useful items.  How well I make use of them is up to me.

I have much to learn.


View Quote



So I was moving stuff around to get to something, and had my old machine sitting out on the cutting table.  So I took a picture of it for you.  Here's my Singer I started with.  

Link Posted: 3/31/2024 9:38:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By marnsdorff:



So I was moving stuff around to get to something, and had my old machine sitting out on the cutting table.  So I took a picture of it for you.  Here's my Singer I started with.  

https://i.ibb.co/vLy8ZyD/signal-2024-03-30-214822-002.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By marnsdorff:
Originally Posted By raf:
Hopefully, such add-on accessories for my specific (1958) single-stitch Brother sewing machine will prove useful.  It will take some time to see how well such add-on accessories will do.  I'm just learning how to sew a straight stitch, so just beginning.

New electric and slightly more powerful motor arrived today--based on your suggestion above.

I have no problem in "intelligently" putting money into a decent sewing machine, or any other project.  Thanks to your good guidance, I have bought some decent and useful items.  How well I make use of them is up to me.

I have much to learn.





So I was moving stuff around to get to something, and had my old machine sitting out on the cutting table.  So I took a picture of it for you.  Here's my Singer I started with.  

https://i.ibb.co/vLy8ZyD/signal-2024-03-30-214822-002.jpg
I like the feature of being able to move the needle; your old Singer is a little more advanced than my old Brother machine.  I have a narrow adjustable foot which I can adjust to either side of the needle, but being able to move the needle is better.
Link Posted: 3/31/2024 9:40:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#49]
This will have to do as far as pix of my Brother machine go:  HERE

See pix in link and note two small "dots" on base of machine to user's right of needle.  Those are internally threaded holes.  Along with my machine's many accessories came a device with a finger screw, and a slot.  I figured out that if the finger screw was screwed into one or the other of the small threaded holes, the device was an adjustable guide/fence suitable for installing edge binding, amongst other things.

Sometimes one gets lucky; I did know such a useful accessory existed until I began tinkering with all the many feet and other items that came along with the machine, including original Owner's manual.
Link Posted: 3/31/2024 1:50:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
This will have to do as far as pix of my Brother machine go:  HERE
View Quote


Ya man, your machine has that cool blue color going for it.  Mine is kinda blah plain beige.
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