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Posted: 12/23/2023 12:58:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: https://i.imgur.com/O6wRyUJh.jpg My thread on annealing, https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Low-budget-Annealing/42-439440/ *IIRC, If I Recall Correctly That acronym puzzled me for a long time, so explaining. Great read. Good stuff. Thanks. Seems very doable. I have propane and butane torches. I use IIRC all the time but thanks for the explanation anyway. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 1:23:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#2]
Some never anneal as they don't think it matters, fine with me.
I choose to anneal. When you are loading you get to set your own standards. Like when I mention trimming 357 cases. Some post "I never trim any pistol brass". Again I'm fine with that. I trim once to get the case length all the same. Note with straight cases, this is a one time trim. Cases don't stretch for me. Since I seat to mid cannelure, cases that vary in length, the bullets don't all land in the cannelure when seated. Trimmed cases all have the same case mouth/cannelure reveal so the crimp is consistent. Consistent is good.  No cannelure here on home cast PC, so seated mid crimp grove and crimped. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 1:43:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Some never anneal as they don't think it matters, fine with me. I choose to anneal. When you are loading you get to set your own standards. Like when I mention trimming 357 cases. Some post "I never trim any pistol brass". Again I'm fine with that. I trim once to get the case length all the same. Note with straight cases, this is a one time trim. Cases don't stretch for me. Since I seat to mid cannelure, cases that vary in length, the bullets don't all land in the cannelure when seated. Trimmed cases all have the same case mouth/cannelure reveal so the crimp is consistent. Consistent is good. https://i.imgur.com/TLo785bh.jpg No cannelure here on home cast PC, so seated mid crimp grove and crimped. Very nice. I like consistency and want as much of it as possible. If I start trying to absorb pistol reloading information now, my brain is going to turn to mush and start coming out my ears. Just picked up my Lyman. I'm going in. They're very pretty. And I know the bang lives up to the bling. I tend to be a practical guy when it comes to firearms but you're starting to seduce me to the Bling side. "You don't know the power of the Bling!" -- Red Flash One, Commanding Officer, Red Squadron, Rebel Air Corps I |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 1:44:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryLove the colors, Sir. Salute! |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 1:50:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Hey Mods, since this thread has gone a lot further than my simple question about using factory .223 ammo to load for 5.56, should I (or you if I can't) change the name of the thread to something like "My Journey to Reloading?" The experts here have put a ton of valuable information in here, as well as some really cool photos of a really cool test facility.
Just a thought. Let me know when you get a chance, please. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 1:55:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Hey Mods, since this thread has gone a lot further than my simple question about using factory .223 ammo to load for 5.56, should I (or you if I can't) change the name of the thread to something like "My Journey to Reloading?" The experts here have put a ton of valuable information in here, as well as some really cool photos of a really cool test facility. Just a thought. Let me know when you get a chance, please. OP can do it for any of his threads. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 2:07:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Just go to the first post, click edit, and change the title. OP can do it for any of his threads. Thanks. Done. |
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Posted: 12/23/2023 11:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Thanks. Done. Getting together some more stuff for you, you now have 2 boxes. The RCBS JR press I'm loaning you needed it's own box. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 4:54:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Thanks. I like the sound of that. Do you use it with the RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center or do you chuck it up in a drill? Either way... I used it with a drill to begin with, then found an inexpensive Hornady case prep center and it lives there now. When removing the crimp, it helps to put wd40 on a cotton tip swab and dab the primer pocket. It cuts much smoother and less chance of gouging out chunks of material. HElps with hand fatigue holding the case too. Wear a mechanic's glove or something similar to help grip the case better. If you ever decide to uniform the primer pockets, using wd40 in the pocket before using the tool helps as well. I typically decrimp the primer pocket, then immediately uniform it afterwards with the RCBS uniforming tool that's also mounted on the case prep ctr. Lube once for both processes. Use an old toothbrush to clear brass cuttings from the tool as you work. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 5:15:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: There are a couple of reviews there that say they wear out fast. One said 500, if I'm remembering it right, and another 1500. What's your experience been, please? Thanks! Used mine for maybe 3k cases? Looks/functions as it did new. Having clean cases (remove primers and wet tumble) and lubing prior to cutting most likely helps increase tool life. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 8:17:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Fine job with the edit. Getting together some more stuff for you, you now have 2 boxes. The RCBS JR press I'm loaning you needed it's own box. Thanks! I continue to be amazed by your generosity of time, gear, and information. I don't take it lightly. Thank you! I am bound and determined to do right by your investment in me. You are an amazing ambassador for the reloading world! |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 8:22:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Either way... I used it with a drill to begin with, then found an inexpensive Hornady case prep center and it lives there now. When removing the crimp, it helps to put wd40 on a cotton tip swab and dab the primer pocket. It cuts much smoother and less chance of gouging out chunks of material. HElps with hand fatigue holding the case too. Wear a mechanic's glove or something similar to help grip the case better. If you ever decide to uniform the primer pockets, using wd40 in the pocket before using the tool helps as well. I typically decrimp the primer pocket, then immediately uniform it afterwards with the RCBS uniforming tool that's also mounted on the case prep ctr. Lube once for both processes. Use an old toothbrush to clear brass cuttings from the tool as you work. Thanks for the great information. I have a lot of crimped brass. I plan to uniform them from the start, using the Hornady tool in a drill. Toothbruhses ... is there anything they can't clean? 
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Posted: 12/24/2023 8:22:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: Used mine for maybe 3k cases? Looks/functions as it did new. Having clean cases (remove primers and wet tumble) and lubing prior to cutting most likely helps increase tool life. Good enough for me. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 8:52:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cascade-Dude]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: The RCBS JR press I'm loaning you needed it's own box. Knowing what little I know of you, I think I already know the answer to my question but, I'm going to ask it anyway to show you I'm paying attention. Does the RCBS Jr. you're loaning me have the primer kit on it? Or will I need to do something else for primers? I looked at some photos of Jr's and they seemed to use the same setup as the Rockchucker. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 2:19:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Knowing what little I know of you, I think I already know the answer to my question but, I'm going to ask it anyway to show you I'm paying attention. Does the RCBS Jr. you're loaning me have the primer kit on it? Or will I need to do something else for primers? I looked at some photos of Jr's and they seemed to use the same setup as the Rockchucker. Thanks!  That's why I don't mind helping you. You listen and learn.JR uses same primer arm/auto primer feed as Rockchucker. Matter of fact I removed the primer arm, cleaned and lubed it. Also replaced the large primer shaft/spring/cup on the primer arm with the SP size. (Not going to lend you a press that has the wrong primer size installed). Lol Spring fits either size of shaft/cup, you got a less rusty one. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 2:40:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: That question tells me that you are paying attention. That's why I don't mind helping you. You listen and learn.JR uses same primer arm/auto primer feed as Rockchucker. Matter of fact I removed the primer arm, cleaned and lubed it. Also replaced the large primer shaft/spring/cup on the primer arm with the SP size. (Not going to lend you a press that has the wrong primer size installed). Lol Spring fits either size of shaft/cup, you got a less rusty one. Thank you! You rock. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 2:50:27 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm one step closer on my journey. The sorting, donating, tossing, recycling, and moving to somewhere else is complete. From here on out, it's all about getting it set up. This entire are was filled to about 6' high with an accumulation of stuff from 30 years. It's been sort of our own in-house storage unit. Turns out we just didn't need most of it.
I'm not sure how well my old recycled table will work out as a reloading bench but I'm going to find out. It's already beat up and scarred but I've been using it for a work table for at least 25 years. It's sturdy and strong and not too wobbly. I don't like how deep it is and am thinking I'll put some deep shelves or drawers across the back. I already started loading it up with my extensive collection of reloading gear.  
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Posted: 12/24/2023 3:23:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Remember how rock solid my reloading bench was? And no flex with the bench top?
I have shelfs built into the bench underneath that are filled with bullets and reloading tools. That helps. But the big key for you will be bolting your bench to wall studs. I used 2x2 angle about 6 inched long and lag bolts. If your table floats on the floor, it won't be solid enough for sizing. And sizing consistency will vary with bench movement.  Leadcast 223/556 reload, it works! Skip ahead to 6:16 to witness bench flex, just seating the bullet. Why I said not all utube channels have good info. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 6:52:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Remember how rock solid my reloading bench was? And no flex with the bench top? I have shelfs built into the bench underneath that are filled with bullets and reloading tools. That helps. But the big key for you will be bolting your bench to wall studs. I used 2x2 angle about 6 inched long and lag bolts. If your table floats on the floor, it won't be solid enough for sizing. And sizing consistency will vary with bench movement.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etNN0jL3eXASkip ahead to 6:16 to witness bench flex, just seating the bullet. Why I said not all utube channels have good info. Your bench is like a battleship set in cement. I have angle steel, 2x4s and 4x4s. If its not stable enough, and I suspect it isn't, I'll lock it down somehow. Long-term, I'd like to build a custom bench but we're looking to find a bigger mini-farm in a year or so and there's no telling what I'll be working with when we do. Wow, that table in the video is pathetic. I could never put up with sloppy movement like that. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 11:20:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Your bench is like a battleship set in cement. I have angle steel, 2x4s and 4x4s. If its not stable enough, and I suspect it isn't, I'll lock it down somehow. Long-term, I'd like to build a custom bench but we're looking to find a bigger mini-farm in a year or so and there's no telling what I'll be working with when we do. Wow, that table in the video is pathetic. I could never put up with sloppy movement like that. |
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Posted: 12/26/2023 8:41:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Here's what I'm thinking. First, the top of my table is a bit bowed, as evidenced by the gap on the corners where the top mounts to the frame.
 The nice thing is that it has a nice 2.5" lip all around the edge I can use to lock it down.  I'm thinking I will 1) mount a 2x4 horizontally along the wall behind it. There are studs behind the panda plastic. 2) Mount the rear lip of the table to the top of the 2x4. 3) Attach a long piece of angle steel to the bottom of the front lip, to make it more rigid. 4) Attach 2x4s to the lip on both sides, on edge. 5) Create two angled braces that connect the 2x4 under the lip on both sides to the sill plate of the stud wall behind it. 6) If I need more strength, I'll add a couple of 4x4 posts underneath the front corners. 
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Posted: 12/26/2023 10:03:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#22]
What you planned is a good start but not nearly enough.
 Notice how press is right next to my corner upright. If you choose to mount your press more to the center of your bench, I would suggest an upright brace on either side of the press. Mounting at the far right of my bench (right handed) next to upright is how I went with that. Worked out fine for me. Bench thickness should be minimum 1 1/2 inches thick, your table is half that. Needs lots of fixing. That's a beautiful Red Oak table and if the finish on the top is in good shape, I wouldn't add a layer on top but would on the bottom. On my bench I used two 3/4 sheets of melamine glued and screwed together and hid the end grain with a pine strip 1 1/2 inches wide. I'm thinking a sheet of 3/4 plywood glued and screwed to the bottom for you doubler. Go as close to the table rails and sides as possible. You addressed the the curl on the table ends with angle iron, what I would do. Screw in from the bottom, no wood glue needed with steel. NOTE, If you have never worked with Oak before, every screw needs a pilot hole (smaller than screw body) before driving. Totally different than working with Pine/Fir 2x4's as they are soft wood. Oak is a hard wood, you will see. If your table had a leaf that could be inserted, that hardware will need to be removed. The brown steed runners. Put a line of screws on each side of the cut in the top where insert went. You want to reinforce those cuts in the top. Next issue is the legs are attached to the frame with 2 screws. Fine for a table, flimsy for a reloading bench. My fear is legs are undersized and not attached firmly enough as is will quickly become loose with case sizing. IMHO legs should be 2x4 in size, so you need at least doubler glued and screwed to the legs. Inside or outside. Now the underside of the bench. You need a rail running between the bottom of the 2 back legs. Then same height, 2 rails to connect the 2 side legs together. Have this rail 4 inches from the bottom of the leg. (for toe kick, more later) A 1x4 rail is what I have in mind. This will stiffen up the legs and give you a place to attach the leftover plywood from the top to make a bottom shelf for storing heavy objects for ballast. So now where to place the front rail? You need to take into consideration you will want your feet and legs under the table. This is why the rail was 4 inches off the ground to give you room for your feet, the toe kick. So front rail should be set back about a foot? It will connect to the side rails, not the front legs. Where exactly ? Trial and error, sit under the table and measure how much room you need for your legs. This gives where front rail goes. Your toes went under the rail into the toe kick space, we already accounted for them. Then add sides to the shelf so you can't push objects off shelf. Sides will stiffen up the bench a lot. I would run plywood (1/4 is fine for this) and run from bottom of shelf rail to the bottom side of table, enclosing the side. Do both sides and the back, so you end up with a 3 sided box under the table. If you run the back up higher than the table top, it gives you a back to the 1x6 shelfs you are going to build. Right? One of those shelfs will be at eye level, when you mount your scale platform. I would add another shelf between the bottom shelf and the top for storage, mindful of leg clearance. Like the shelf on my bench that has the case trimmer on it. Notice how that shelf is set back for leg clearance. Repurposing furniture to make a suitable reloading bench takes some serious mods if you want to end up with a sturdy reloading bench. Myself, I would start from scratch with 2x4's and 3/4 plywood. What's in the pic is bench #6, I moved a lot when in the Navy. Everything you add needs to be wood glued and screwed (#8 screw size minimum, length as needed) together. No nails like my first shacky bench was.  Don't know if you want to build drawers like I did, or will opt for the bottom half of a rollaway tool box that fits under the bench. If so the rails will need to be modified to allow room for the rollaway. So maybe you end up with a bottom shelf that only goes 1/2 to 2/3 of the way across the bottom. Now is the time to plan for that. All for now. Quote this post and ask questions in blue font. (Font color found under the A [/u]next to Normal top of post window.) |
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Posted: 12/26/2023 2:48:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: Myself, I would start from scratch with 2x4's and 3/4 plywood. Thank you very much for taking the time to put all that together for me. Given all that, starting from scratch with basic materials makes a lot more sense to me too. I was hoping for easy but if easy won't work, there's no need going there.
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Posted: 12/26/2023 6:47:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: What you planned is a good start but not nearly enough. https://i.imgur.com/6IICpG5l.jpg Notice how press is right next to my corner upright. I planned to mount it at the corner. Less flex there. If you choose to mount your press more to the center of your bench, I would suggest an upright brace on either side of the press. Mounting at the far right of my bench (right handed) next to upright is how I went with that. Worked out fine for me. I found it very well-positioned and like the ergonomics. Bench thickness should be minimum 1 1/2 inches thick, your table is half that. Needs lots of fixing. Duly noted. I've know all along I'd have to reinforce it. I just underestimated how much. The level-of-effort doesn't seem to be any less than just building a bench. Much easier engineering too. That's a beautiful Red Oak table and if the finish on the top is in good shape, I wouldn't add a layer on top but would on the bottom. I had mixed emotions about using it because it's in such good shape. Straightening it, levelling it, reinforcing it and refinishing it has been on my to-do list for a long time but it's way down there. I feel better not butchering it. On my bench I used two 3/4 sheets of melamine glued and screwed together and hid the end grain with a pine strip 1 1/2 inches wide. It's nice too. I wouldn't mind using it on my bench but I've never worked with it before. I'm thinking a sheet of 3/4 plywood glued and screwed to the bottom for you doubler. Go as close to the table rails and sides as possible. You addressed the the curl on the table ends with angle iron, what I would do. Screw in from the bottom, no wood glue needed with steel. NOTE, If you have never worked with Oak before, every screw needs a pilot hole (smaller than screw body) before driving. Totally different than working with Pine/Fir 2x4's as they are soft wood. Oak is a hard wood, you will see. Thanks. I typically drill pilot holes even in pine and fir. Especially for hooks and eyes; my wrists have taken a beating over my lifetime. If your table had a leaf that could be inserted, that hardware will need to be removed. The brown steed runners. They need to be taken off, de-rusted, and put back on when I level it. Put a line of screws on each side of the cut in the top where insert went. You want to reinforce those cuts in the top. Next issue is the legs are attached to the frame with 2 screws. Fine for a table, flimsy for a reloading bench. My fear is legs are undersized and not attached firmly enough as is will quickly become loose with case sizing. Agreed. IMHO legs should be 2x4 in size, so you need at least doubler glued and screwed to the legs. Inside or outside. I had planned to put a vertical 4x4 post at all four corners. Now the underside of the bench. You need a rail running between the bottom of the 2 back legs. Then same height, 2 rails to connect the 2 side legs together. Side rails: One rail on each side = 2 rails? Or two rails per side? I'm using some of the information you posted here to design the bench I'm going to build. Have this rail 4 inches from the bottom of the leg. (for toe kick, more later) A 1x4 rail is what I have in mind. This will stiffen up the legs and give you a place to attach the leftover plywood from the top to make a bottom shelf for storing heavy objects for ballast. So now where to place the front rail? You need to take into consideration you will want your feet and legs under the table. This is why the rail was 4 inches off the ground to give you room for your feet, the toe kick. So front rail should be set back about a foot? It will connect to the side rails, not the front legs. Got it. Where exactly ? Trial and error, sit under the table and measure how much room you need for your legs. This gives where front rail goes. Got it. Your toes went under the rail into the toe kick space, we already accounted for them. Then add sides to the shelf so you can't push objects off shelf. Sides will stiffen up the bench a lot. I would run plywood (1/4 is fine for this) and run from bottom of shelf rail to the bottom side of table, enclosing the side. Do both sides and the back, so you end up with a 3 sided box under the table. Absolutely. It will add a lot of two-dimensional structural strength. Enclosing the back and sides in their entirety also helps keep it a bit cleaner. If you run the back up higher than the table top, it gives you a back to the 1x6 shelfs you are going to build. Right? Absolutely. I was worried about the depth of the table and what I was going to have to do to get shelves and organizers within easy reach. Building a bench solves that. My bench won't be anywhere near as deep as the table. One of those shelfs will be at eye level, when you mount your scale platform. Yes sir. I would add another shelf between the bottom shelf and the top for storage, mindful of leg clearance. Like the shelf on my bench that has the case trimmer on it. Notice how that shelf is set back for leg clearance. Copy all. Repurposing furniture to make a suitable reloading bench takes some serious mods if you want to end up with a sturdy reloading bench. Message heard and understood. More trouble than it's worth, is how I'm seeing it. Now where did I put my power miter saw ... Myself, I would start from scratch with 2x4's and 3/4 plywood. What's in the pic is bench #6, I moved a lot when in the Navy. Thank you. That's exactly what I'm going to do. Everything you add needs to be wood glued and screwed (#8 screw size minimum, length as needed) together. No nails like my first shacky bench was. Copy all.Don't know if you want to build drawers like I did, or will opt for the bottom half of a rollaway tool box that fits under the bench. Want to build my own drawers, yes. Able to, no. If you want someone to frame a shed, I'm your guy. Woodworking ... nothing but admiration for a good woodworker because I know how far away from that I am. I'll be using a tool box. If so the rails will need to be modified to allow room for the rollaway. I have so much room, I not sure I need to store my toolbox underneath the bench. So maybe you end up with a bottom shelf that only goes 1/2 to 2/3 of the way across the bottom. Now is the time to plan for that. All for now. Quote this post and ask questions in blue font. (Font color found under the A [/u]next to Normal top of post window.) I wanted to respond to several of your points and ask a couple of questions. I decided I'm going to build a bench and I'm going to use your points above as guidance. I'll probably draw up the blueprints some time tonight. Mind if I ask you two dimensions of your bench, please? What is the distance from the floor surface to the top of the bench? What is the depth from the front of the bench to the rear? Thanks! I'm thinking 6' wide, with 8 legs made of 4x4. If I can find them at a decent price, I'd like to get some levelling feet for the bottom of the legs. They'll have to be heavy-duty, though and I'm guessing they'll be a budget-buster. |
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Posted: 12/26/2023 9:38:48 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 12/26/2023 11:47:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Is this the stuff for the top of the bench (two layers)? Lowes Melamine Board That's the stuff. If I had it to do over again, the top would be melamine, the bottom layer 3/4 plywood. Why? Because I had to add a steel plate below the press to stiffen up the 2 layer melamine top. |
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Posted: 12/26/2023 11:55:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: I wanted to respond to several of your points and ask a couple of questions. I decided I'm going to build a bench and I'm going to use your points above as guidance. I'll probably draw up the blueprints some time tonight. Mind if I ask you two dimensions of your bench, please? What is the distance from the floor surface to the top of the bench? What is the depth from the front of the bench to the rear? Thanks! I'm thinking 6' wide, with 8 legs made of 4x4. If I can find them at a decent price, I'd like to get some levelling feet for the bottom of the legs. They'll have to be heavy-duty, though and I'm guessing they'll be a budget-buster. and 32.5 inches high. My chair seat is 23 inches high. I figured out the height of the bench by sitting at tables in the house. I measured the comfortable one and used that height. Really no need for 4x4's and they are expensive. 2x4's will work well. Be sure to pick up 2 pieces of 6 inch long 2x2 angle iron, for lag bolting bench to wall studs. I got some nice leveling legs at Amazon a while back. |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 4:55:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: My bench is 57" long, 21 inches wide, (never go over 24 inches here, as you can't reach the back of the bench comfortably) and 32.5 inches high. My chair seat is 23 inches high. I figured out the height of the bench by sitting at tables in the house. I measured the comfortable one and used that height. Really no need for 4x4's and they are expensive. 2x4's will work well. Be sure to pick up 2 pieces of 6 inch long 2x2 angle iron, for lag bolting bench to wall studs. I got some nice leveling legs at Amazon a while back. Thanks! I think I may have enough short lengths of 4x4 that I won't have to buy any. Any reason I shouldn't use them if I have them? |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 12:26:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Thanks! I think I may have enough short lengths of 4x4 that I won't have to buy any. Any reason I shouldn't use them if I have them? My advice was if you were buying them. Remember build a bench, not a table. Have rails to support the bottom shelf, and cover sides and back with plywood. Something a table would lack. |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 2:28:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cascade-Dude]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: If you have them, then use them. My advice was if you were buying them. Remember build a bench, not a table. Have rails to support the bottom shelf, and cover sides and back with plywood. Something a table would lack. Good advice. I've actually built more benches than tables but never a sit-down bench. The laptop with my illustration software is acting up, so I drew it up by hand. Here's what I'm thinking. 2' deep x 6' wide Top Frame: 2' x 6' rectangle: 2x4 construction with 2x4 cross-braces 12" OC. Allow for overhang on front and sides. 3 inch #8 wood screws and glue. Lower Frame/Shelf: U-shaped frame 2' x 6' End pieces to serve are bottom rail of the bench side, three pieces inside "U" are toe kicks and shelves. 2x4 cross-braces 12" OC inside the rectangle. 3 inch #8 wood screws and glue. Legs: 8x, 4" x 4" x24". The top of the frame sits flush with the top of the legs. The frame attaches to the four corner legs with 4 lag bolts and the four intermediary legs with 2 lag bolts. The lower (shelf) frame attaches to two corner legs with 4 lag bolts. I'm thinking 3/8" x 4" lag bolts but I'm not a lag bolt expert. Side Panels: 1/4" plywood, attached to legs and bottom rail with wood screws. Unresolved: open butt at top, beneath top frame. Possibly add overhanging 1x4 plates to the inside of the top frame and wood screw the panel into that. Rear Panel Lower: 1/4" plywood, attached to legs and bottom rail with wood screws. Same issue at top with butt joint. Rear Panel Upper: 1/4" plywood. Attaches to the rear of the shelf frames, extends to the bottom of the Upper Frame and is attached to it with wood screws. Top surface: 3/4" plywood glued and wood-screwed into top frame. 3/4" Melamine panel glued onto plywood??? Screwed to the plywood withe screws driven into it from underneath? Lower frame shelf surface: 3/4" Melamine panel glued? to the lower frame. Melamine panel edges: Glue? a strip of thin wood along the edge. This sort of fancy woodworking is where my skills exit the building but I'm willing to have a go at it to protect the integrity of the particle board beneath. Shelves: TBD. I have doubts in my ability to build them, so I may be looking for something off the shelf I can lock down to the top and the Rear Upper Panel. It will have to have a place for an eye-level scale no matter what. Same with the quick-disconnect powder measure mount. So if I can't find something that works with both, I may have to build something myself and just live with the well-deserved ribbing my caveman wood-working skills deserve.  Press Mount: I think I'd like to put a steel plate above on the top and bottom of the bench where the press will mount. I'm also thinking about how I could use some angle steel running from the front of the bench toward the back and if I welded it to the mount plate and made one unit out of it, it would transfer some of the energy that can cause bench flex, along a much longer "moment," if that's the right term. If the steel doesn't bend, the bench isn't going to flex, I'm thinking. Disassembly for a move: Disconnect angle steel connecters from wall studs. Remove the steel press supports. Remove panels and top shelves by taking out the wood screws. Remove the upper frame with the top on it by taking out the lag screws. Remove the lower frame by taking out the lag screws. Move and reassemble, adding a punch of toothpicks into the screw holes to make sure the screws seat properly. The round, hardwood toothpicks. I have all the 2x4s and 1x4s I could possibly need. And most, if not all, of the 4x4s. The melamine and plywood will be the most expensive parts bit if my mental approximations are right, I should be able to do it all with one sheet 1/4" ply, one of 3/4" ply, and one of 3/4" melamine particle board. Plus whatever I need to cover the edges, the woodscrews, and the lag bolts. I'm going to have to hawk the dimensions every step of the way to make sure a press will mount to it where I want it to (directly above and aligned with the front right leg). That overhang will be critical. Any suggestions for how much clearance I want to make sure I have to make sure the bench structure doesn't interfere with mounting? Left to right and for and aft, please? It seems like it should be pretty solid, in a brute-force sort of way. I rebuilt a Windsor engine on a wooden bench that didn't have half that much wood in it. And if it isn't, a gusset plate here, some structural steel there, a few more cross braces ... Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms? |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 3:41:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Good advice. I've actually built more benches than tables but never a sit-down bench. The laptop with my illustration software is acting up, so I drew it up by hand. Here's what I'm thinking. 2' deep x 6' wide Top Frame: 2' x 6' rectangle: 2x4 construction with 2x4 cross-braces 12" OC. Allow for overhang on front and sides. 3 inch #8 wood screws and glue. Lower Frame/Shelf: U-shaped frame 2' x 6' End pieces to serve are bottom rail of the bench side, three pieces inside "U" are toe kicks and shelves. 2x4 cross-braces 12" OC inside the rectangle. 3 inch #8 wood screws and glue. All good to here. Legs: 8x, 4" x 4" x24". The top of the frame sits flush with the top of the legs. The frame attaches to the four corner legs with 4 lag bolts and the four intermediary legs with 2 lag bolts. The lower (shelf) frame attaches to two corner legs with 4 lag bolts. I'm thinking 3/8" x 4" lag bolts but I'm not a lag bolt expert. Lag bolts unnecessary and are ugly unless hidden. I would use #10 3 inch long screws instead. Then you end up with a flush fastener. Remember the screws just hold the joint together until the glue dries. Side Panels: 1/4" plywood, attached to legs and bottom rail with wood screws. Unresolved: open butt at top, beneath top frame. Possibly add overhanging 1x4 plates to the inside of the top frame and wood screw the panel into that. Rear Panel Lower: 1/4" plywood, attached to legs and bottom rail with wood screws. Same issue at top with butt joint. Rear Panel Upper: 1/4" plywood. Attaches to the rear of the shelf frames, extends to the bottom of the Upper Frame and is attached to it with wood screws. Top surface: 3/4" plywood glued and wood-screwed into top frame. 3/4" Melamine panel glued onto plywood??? Screwed to the plywood withe screws driven into it from underneath? All the above good. Lower frame shelf surface: 3/4" Melamine panel glued? to the lower frame. Yes glue the melamine just like it was wood. Helps if you rough up the surface with 40 grit sandpaper. Then screw together Melamine panel edges: Glue? a strip of thin wood along the edge. This sort of fancy woodworking is where my skills exit the building but I'm willing to have a go at it to protect the integrity of the particle board beneath. That's what I did, not hard to do, just a nice finishing touch. My 3/4 x 1 1/2 inch piece of trim (Pine) is glued and nailed to edge of melamine. Shelves: TBD. I have doubts in my ability to build them, so I may be looking for something off the shelf I can lock down to the top and the Rear Upper Panel. It will have to have a place for an eye-level scale no matter what. Same with the quick-disconnect powder measure mount. So if I can't find something that works with both, I may have to build something myself and just live with the well-deserved ribbing my caveman wood-working skills deserve. Easy to do, use butt joints and glue and screw. You don't need Rabbit and Dato'd joints like i did. I assume you will look up these terms if you don't follow. Press Mount: I think I'd like to put a steel plate above on the top and bottom of the bench where the press will mount. I'm also thinking about how I could use some angle steel running from the front of the bench toward the back and if I welded it to the mount plate and made one unit out of it, it would transfer some of the energy that can cause bench flex, along a much longer "moment," if that's the right term. If the steel doesn't bend, the bench isn't going to flex, I'm thinking. Just need a flat piece of 1/4 plate, with the bracing you are doing, that's all you will need. Unless you have extra angle iron you're itching to use. Disassembly for a move: Disconnect angle steel connecters from wall studs. Remove the steel press supports. Remove panels and top shelves by taking out the wood screws. Remove the upper frame with the top on it by taking out the lag screws. Remove the lower frame by taking out the lag screws. Move and reassemble, adding a punch of toothpicks into the screw holes to make sure the screws seat properly. The round, hardwood toothpicks. My shelfs are detachable, the bench is all one piece. All that's needed. 2 guys can easily move the empty bench. I have all the 2x4s and 1x4s I could possibly need. And most, if not all, of the 4x4s. The melamine and plywood will be the most expensive parts bit if my mental approximations are right, I should be able to do it all with one sheet 1/4" ply, one of 3/4" ply, and one of 3/4" melamine particle board. Plus whatever I need to cover the edges, the woodscrews, and the lag bolts. You will have some left overs. 1 sheet of each is plenty. I'm going to have to hawk the dimensions every step of the way to make sure a press will mount to it where I want it to (directly above and aligned with the front right leg). That overhang will be critical. Any suggestions for how much clearance I want to make sure I have to make sure the bench structure doesn't interfere with mounting? Left to right and for and aft, please? No more than an inch of overhang. My overhand is the 3/4 board I used as trim on the melamine end grain. Side of press about 1 inch from bench leg. It seems like it should be pretty solid, in a brute-force sort of way. I rebuilt a Windsor engine on a wooden bench that didn't have half that much wood in it. And if it isn't, a gusset plate here, some structural steel there, a few more cross braces ... Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms? As usual comments in blue after opening QUOTE. |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 10:02:05 PM EDT
[#32]
I can offer a "rule of thumb" for building bench. It yields a good, all-around height for working at the bench.
Stand erect with your hands at your sides. Make a fist and extend your thumb. The bench top should be at the height of your thumb. |
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Posted: 12/27/2023 11:14:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I can offer a "rule of thumb" for building bench. It yields a good, all-around height for working at the bench. Stand erect with your hands at your sides. Make a fist and extend your thumb. The bench top should be at the height of your thumb. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:53:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3: I sit to reload nowadays and I think OP wants a clone of my bench. I do want to sit when I reload. Your bench is smart. Very well thought out and designed for productivity. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 7:56:46 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I can offer a "rule of thumb" for building bench. It yields a good, all-around height for working at the bench. Stand erect with your hands at your sides. Make a fist and extend your thumb. The bench top should be at the height of your thumb. I'll do that and compare it to the dimensions I already have. More data points can't hurt. I can already tell you that my other two benches are much taller than that. Though the bench in my garage is probably 75 years old, older than me even. I'm building this bench to be used while seated but I'm curious to see the difference in height, if any. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 9:08:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Height of dryflash's bench: 32.5"
Height of my extended thumb when standing as Trollslayer recommended: 32" I have long arms, by the way. I measured the desk I use for an armorer's bench and it's 26" from the floor to desktop. It feels too low for reloading. 32" to 32.5" seems like a good target height. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 9:58:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Height of dryflash's bench: 32.5" Height of my extended thumb when standing as Trollslayer recommended: 32" I have long arms, by the way. I measured the desk I use for an armorer's bench and it's 26" from the floor to desktop. It feels too low for reloading. 32" to 32.5" seems like a good target height. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 10:20:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#38]
Some pics for you OP,
 Right side of bench, how far Rockchucker is from end of bench.  Steel plate below Rockchucker.  Better view. Plate is held secure with the bolts/washers that hold the Rockchucker. Really nothing fancy, just supports the melamine.  Dato joint on the side of shelf upright that holds shelf horizontal pieces.  Butt joint on divider that supports the middle of the shelf. Need support/strength due to all the bullets I have on the shelfs. You would be fine with all butt joints as long as every joint is glued and screwed. I can show you techniques on the easy way to "glue and screw" joints. One last thing, your loner press. I forgot to take before pics.  Stripped, cleaned and painted, time for some assembly. I got close to the correct color. Board on back is a temp mount that can be clamped to a table/bench. The hole pattern on the JR, (model of press in pic), is different than a Rockchucker. Checklist in corner.  Ready for some loading. I'm done, some more info I'm going to send you in an IM. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 12:05:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Thank you! Very helpful. Especially the closeup details of the press mounting.
Wow, does that press ever look nice. Thanks for the wooden mounting plate! That will be very helpful. I think I can handle building some shelves with butt joints. I'm willing to give it a go. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 1:08:16 PM EDT
[#40]
 Bench and cabinet are separate |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 1:28:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By smashedminer: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368928/20231228_090652-3073652.jpg Bench and cabinet are separate Table saw is needed and Dato joints are used everywhere. All those sliding panels run in a Dato. I don't like the fold down scale shelf either. To flimsily for me and I keep my scale in a fixed position and covered when not in use. I have posted my set up many times, and OP has been to my workshop and likes my setup. One thing that is nice about that plan it shows OP how to place the lower braces and cover the lower shelf. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 1:53:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By smashedminer: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368928/20231228_090652-3073652.jpg Bench and cabinet are separate That's very nice. The bench itself is very much as I envision mine, except with the lower shelf having an opening in the middle for my legs, so I can sit at it. And with more legs. The details are very helpful. The cabinet looks nice but I'm sure it's over my head. Whatever wood-working I'll be doing, it will be with framing tools and not wood-working tools. I'd have to do dados with a hand-held circular saw. The only router I have is a plunge router for cutting holes in plywood and sheetrock. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 2:22:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#43]
A plunge router? Like a regular for wood router? That would work fine, just lock the depth of cut. A drywall one wouldn’t really do. Run a router along a straight edge.
That said you could skip the dados altogether, no need to dado the shelves either. For those just use screwed on cleats under the shelves. In lieu of the sliding doors you can A. not use doors at all or B. use hinges. Put some thought in to that on the bigger doors though as you’ll have stuff on the bench in the way of the door swing. You could hinge on the horizontal surface too. Option A. . Having everything nice and cleanly hidden behind doors looks cleaner. The worst is glass paned doors. They don’t hide the real mess. 
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Posted: 12/28/2023 2:59:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: A plunge router? Like a regular for wood router? That would work fine, just lock the depth of cut. A drywall one wouldn’t really do. Run a router along a straight edge. That said you could skip the dados altogether, no need to dado the shelves either. For those just use screwed on cleats under the shelves. In lieu of the sliding doors you can A. not use doors at all or B. use hinges. Put some thought in to that on the bigger doors though as you’ll have stuff on the bench in the way of the door swing. You could hinge on the horizontal surface too. Option A. . Having everything nice and cleanly hidden behind doors looks cleaner. The worst is glass paned doors. They don’t hide the real mess. Sorry, I used the wrong term. Not a plunge router or a regular router, no. It's a compact router, like a stick blender. I use it to make cutouts in sheetrock and plywood. It has no depth adjustment. Motor, switch, chuck, bit ... that's pretty-much it. Good ideas, thanks. Doors would help keep stuff clean, too. I like the idea of a horizontal hinge along the top that is held up when opened. I could open it up at the beginning of a session when the top is clear, and then close them at the end of the session, after the top is clear. Another option is one, large removable door. Make a slot at the bottom by attaching a thin strip of wood to the top, with a twist-hasp that holds it to the top. I'd be okay with butt joints if I can clamp them together so they're positioned perfectly when I glue and screw them. I have a couple of corner clamps I'll be using to build the frames and attach the legs and such. I'll play around with them with some scrap and see if I can use them to build shelves. |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 3:10:00 PM EDT
[#45]
I posted just part of what I have . It's the full detailed schematic. With step by step instructions.
I didn't post the whole thing not knowing if it would be a copyright problem. . If it's ok I'll post the whole thing . A person could use parts of it or whatever. Might help with ideas to ad lib what's in your head. It's a pretty detailed piece at 4 pages of simple instructions |
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Posted: 12/28/2023 4:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Sorry, I used the wrong term. Not a plunge router or a regular router, no. It's a compact router, like a stick blender. I use it to make cutouts in sheetrock and plywood. It has no depth adjustment. Motor, switch, chuck, bit ... that's pretty-much it. Clamping mitered corners = ugh! If you do not have a regular router, my advice is go buy one RIGHT NOW! <-- really true, thoughSeriously, it is one of THE most used tools in my woodworking stable. I use it as much as my table saw. When you buy, be sure it has both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. A simple router table is easily made, too, and is very, very important when making moldings. Porter Cable 693 is a classic router and can be had with both a conventional and plunge base*. There are also many others that are worthy.  * ETA - It appears that Porter Cable was purchased by Black & Decker in 2010. PC routers are now seemingly gone from the marketplace, replaced by an inferior DeWalt replacement.  
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Posted: 12/28/2023 5:37:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Clamping mitered corners = ugh! If you do not have a regular router, my advice is go buy one RIGHT NOW! <-- really true, thoughSeriously, it is one of THE most used tools in my woodworking stable. I use it as much as my table saw. When you buy, be sure it has both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. A simple router table is easily made, too, and is very, very important when making moldings. Porter Cable 693 is a classic router and can be had with both a conventional and plunge base*. There are also many others that are worthy. https://www.portercable.com/NAG/PRODUCT/IMAGES/HIRES/693LRPK/693LRPK_1.jpg?resize=530x530 * ETA - It appears that Porter Cable was purchased by Black & Decker in 2010. PC routers are now seemingly gone from the marketplace, replaced by an inferior DeWalt replacement. I hear you brother. Sadly, a man can only have so many enthusiasms. 
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Posted: 12/28/2023 6:48:30 PM EDT
[#48]
I found these on Amazon. 4-pack for $18. $36 to put levelers on all eight feet ... works for me.
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Posted: 12/28/2023 8:40:43 PM EDT
[#49]
My dies arrived.
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Posted: 12/29/2023 12:14:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Sorry, I used the wrong term. Not a plunge router or a regular router, no. It's a compact router, like a stick blender. I use it to make cutouts in sheetrock and plywood. It has no depth adjustment. Motor, switch, chuck, bit ... that's pretty-much it. Good ideas, thanks. Doors would help keep stuff clean, too. I like the idea of a horizontal hinge along the top that is held up when opened. I could open it up at the beginning of a session when the top is clear, and then close them at the end of the session, after the top is clear. Another option is one, large removable door. Make a slot at the bottom by attaching a thin strip of wood to the top, with a twist-hasp that holds it to the top. I'd be okay with butt joints if I can clamp them together so they're positioned perfectly when I glue and screw them. I have a couple of corner clamps I'll be using to build the frames and attach the legs and such. I'll play around with them with some scrap and see if I can use them to build shelves. |
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