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UT, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 12:17:42 AM EDT
 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170321978A1/en?assignee=fn+herstal&oq=fn+herstal&page=2 It seems to be related to this patent. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 12:19:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Interested to learn more.
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Posted: 12/21/2022 1:12:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Patent language is so funny.
a piston slidably carried by said gas block assembly, said piston movable between a proximal position and a distal position so that gas from said barrel travels through said hole in said barrel to said interior of said gas block assembly and drives said piston from said distal position to said proximal position; |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 1:24:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rigian: Patent language is so funny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rigian: Patent language is so funny. a piston slidably carried by said gas block assembly, said piston movable between a proximal position and a distal position so that gas from said barrel travels through said hole in said barrel to said interior of said gas block assembly and drives said piston from said distal position to said proximal position; "The same bang-boom operation system from 100 years ago, 'cept we move the front deal to the back, and flipped on the flop." |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2022 5:13:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Gas Piston AR varient?
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Posted: 12/22/2022 9:53:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Interested to learn more. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/03/1a/05/0095b15ceda2ea/US20170321978A1-20171109-D00000.png Meh, looks like an AR and a SCAR's love child. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2022 8:11:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Why would we make a new gun with a buffer tube?
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Posted: 12/22/2022 8:30:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: Why would we make a new gun with a buffer tube? Patent look like an upper designed to go on the M4 lower. But if they make it a separate gun, who knows what FN will do? |
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Posted: 12/23/2022 6:30:18 AM EDT
[#8]
I really like the side charging handle far forward on the rifle. Feels more natural.
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MP, USA
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Posted: 12/26/2022 11:16:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Looks interesting. I’ll buy one if they come to market.
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Posted: 12/27/2022 1:27:46 PM EDT
[#10]
JoshNC sent me a link to the patent report:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/fa/95/6a/db7433a3a8615e/US20170321978A1.pdf ShotShow may surprise us after all. A SCAR operating system on an AR upper would be great. I guarantee FN will screw it up somehow though and charge us $4k for a new rifle rather than sell us the uppers at a more decent price. The patent drawing also implies it utilizes an AR buffer system, which IMHO defeats the purpose of a good short stroke system like the SCAR. Regardless, if FN says adding a suppressor will void the warranty when they have an adjustable gas block, I’ll vomit. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2022 1:31:57 PM EDT
[#11]
I don’t get it. Looks like a pretty ordinary piston AR upper.
This is the SCAR, AR love child I want to see come to market. 
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USA
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Posted: 12/27/2022 1:41:08 PM EDT
[#12]
$5700
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UT, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2023 7:01:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Coalkoy]
[#13]
 FN America (FNA) Previews the Lightweight Intermediate Caliber Cartridge (LICC) Individual Weapon System (IWS) Developed for the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD) https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coalkoy: https://i.imgur.com/vocTLiR.jpeg FN America (FNA) Previews the Lightweight Intermediate Caliber Cartridge (LICC) Individual Weapon System (IWS) Developed for the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD) https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ I like this. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 1/16/2023 3:23:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dalyman72]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: I don’t get it. Looks like a pretty ordinary piston AR upper. This is the SCAR, AR love child I want to see come to market. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52068689245_920ef38092_b.jpg That's not the IWS as seen posted by Coalkoy. The picture you posted is the MRGG - different gun for a different solicitation/customer. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:22:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalyman72: That's not the IWS as seen posted by Coalkoy. The picture you posted is the MRGG - different gun for a different solicitation/customer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalyman72: Originally Posted By Mblades: I don’t get it. Looks like a pretty ordinary piston AR upper. This is the SCAR, AR love child I want to see come to market. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52068689245_920ef38092_b.jpg That's not the IWS as seen posted by Coalkoy. The picture you posted is the MRGG - different gun for a different solicitation/customer. I know. That’s why I said the MRGG is the one I want to see come to market not the IWS. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:38:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gohuskers: $5700 Somebody is dreamin' about what an AR pattern rifle is worth to me. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:29:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coalkoy: https://i.imgur.com/vocTLiR.jpeg FN America (FNA) Previews the Lightweight Intermediate Caliber Cartridge (LICC) Individual Weapon System (IWS) Developed for the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD) https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ That's a good looking setup. Chances FN will sell it to us average folks? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 11:37:48 PM EDT
[#19]
https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/
Making this link hot. Interesting to see 6.8 SPC get its day. Also interesting to see FN ditch the SCAR’s short stroke system for a long stroke system and use an OSS can |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:00:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ Making this link hot. Interesting to see 6.8 SPC get its day. Also interesting to see FN ditch the SCAR’s short stroke system for a long stroke system and use an OSS can Are they doing any in 6.8? They kept mentioning 6.5 in the article. Wonder if it's actually just a necked down 6.8 SPC. Also be interesting to see if they do a conventional brass case and what if any performance differences there are. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2023 4:37:21 PM EDT
[#21]
So it's a Six8 with a proprietary caliber instead of 6.5G. No spank ewe
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Posted: 1/19/2023 10:45:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Are they doing any in 6.8? They kept mentioning 6.5 in the article. Wonder if it's actually just a necked down 6.8 SPC. Also be interesting to see if they do a conventional brass case and what if any performance differences there are. I actually meant to say 6.5 Grendel. 0.264 in = 6.7 mm but they are calling this a 6.5x43 mm round, so who knows what the real dimensions are?  https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/01/18/shot-show-2023-fn-americas-new-individual-weapon-system/ I am very intrigued by the fact this is a long stroke piston system, effectively ditching the SCAR's short stroke design. I would love to see a break down of this rifle and how it works. Regardless, this makes far more sense to me than a MCX Spear for general purpose use. I'm disappointed though they couldn't stick to a commercially available caliber like 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC for mass use. I'm guess FN didn't want to share royalties with anyone. The magazine is definitely a modified 6.8 SPC magpul magazine, which is a good thing. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 11:23:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coalkoy: https://i.imgur.com/vocTLiR.jpeg FN America (FNA) Previews the Lightweight Intermediate Caliber Cartridge (LICC) Individual Weapon System (IWS) Developed for the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD) https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ I want to learn more about that cartridge and it’s ballistics. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2023 2:46:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VeritatisUnus: I want to learn more about that cartridge and it’s ballistics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Originally Posted By Coalkoy: https://i.imgur.com/vocTLiR.jpeg FN America (FNA) Previews the Lightweight Intermediate Caliber Cartridge (LICC) Individual Weapon System (IWS) Developed for the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD) https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/ I want to learn more about that cartridge and it’s ballistics. Says in the article that it's based on the .264 USA, driven at higher chamber pressure than 6.5 Creedmoor. Though info on the 264 USA is being a bit elusive to my Google-fu. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2023 3:02:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Its a shortened 6.5 Creedmoor using a lightweight case design, based around a lead free low drag ~108gr projectile.
Goal is a ~15g cartridge, where a loaded 25rd mag is equal to the weight of a loaded 30rd 5.56 mag full of brass case. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2023 2:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Coalkoy]
[#26]
 EVOLYS with .264 I believe that IWS will be able to use 6.5CM/7.62x51mm |
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Posted: 1/20/2023 2:45:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Its a shortened 6.5 Creedmoor using a lightweight case design, based around a lead free low drag ~108gr projectile. Goal is a ~15g cartridge, where a loaded 25rd mag is equal to the weight of a loaded 30rd 5.56 mag full of brass case. What do you mean shortened 6.5 Creedmoor? What dimensions does it share with the Creedmoor? If it uses the same case head that would not make much sense to me at all. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2023 11:11:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: What do you mean shortened 6.5 Creedmoor? What dimensions does it share with the Creedmoor? If it uses the same case head that would not make much sense to me at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Its a shortened 6.5 Creedmoor using a lightweight case design, based around a lead free low drag ~108gr projectile. Goal is a ~15g cartridge, where a loaded 25rd mag is equal to the weight of a loaded 30rd 5.56 mag full of brass case. What do you mean shortened 6.5 Creedmoor? What dimensions does it share with the Creedmoor? If it uses the same case head that would not make much sense to me at all. It's a 6.5x43mm, 2.50" COL, based on the 6.5C/7.62x51 parent case. It's shortened so that it will fit a 2.5" COL vs the normal 2.75" COL of 6.5C so that it can be used in an 'AR12' style weapon size thats in-between the AR15 and AR10. This allows for a lighter weapon then a 6.5C/7.62 AR10/SCAR17 sized gun. Reportedly it can drive a 103gr 6.5 lead free with a 0.225 G7 @ 2875fps from a 14.5" barrel. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 12:42:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Thank you for the info. Sounds pretty awesome.
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Posted: 1/21/2023 1:08:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Reading an article it says the 264 USA is based on a lengthened 7.62x39 case. I don’t think this FN cartridge is close to the 264 USA other than being 6.5mm since the 264 USA (according to the article) has a 2.6” COAL which is longer than the allowable length of 6.8 SPC Pmag shown in the FN pics.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2023 2:23:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VeritatisUnus: Reading an article it says the 264 USA is based on a lengthened 7.62x39 case. I don’t think this FN cartridge is close to the 264 USA other than being 6.5mm since the 264 USA (according to the article) has a 2.6” COAL which is longer than the allowable length of 6.8 SPC Pmag shown in the FN pics. Apparently it began with the .264 USA, and achieves similar ballistics. But it went with a slightly wider 7.62 parent case, but shorter COL. This was to shorten the COL to allow a smaller/lighter weapon, and I assume also to work with existing 7.62 MG links. Reportedly these Shell Shock stainless steel cases create a lot more bolt thrust than a brass case, as the case is so slick it does not have as much friction in the chamber so it slides more rapidly into the bolt. Thats why the new FN rifle uses a strengthened bolt design. So it's a promising new lightweight case technology, but apparently it's not suitable for dropping into legacy weapons. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2023 1:03:47 AM EDT
[#32]
FN Herstal shows in SOF Week its latest models in rifles and machine guns
https://www.infodefensa.com/images/showid2/5951110?w=960&zc=1&rnd=2 https://www.infodefensa.com/images/showid2/5951108?w=960&zc=1&rnd=2 |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 8:14:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Don't really care for the IWS, but I do want the MRGG in 6.5 Creedmoor if they eventually release it to civilians.
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Posted: 5/21/2023 11:17:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Mao want an IWS
 Would love to learn more about the cartridge and magazines for it. Seriously though, why the heck did the Army adopt 6.8x51 over a true intermediate cartridge such as FN's proposal, 6.5 Grendal or 6 mm ARC? I don't get it. Might as well outfit the Army with AR-10s. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2023 11:34:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Hey FN! Eugene Stoner’s ghost is in the parking lot, and says he wants to kick your ass!
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Posted: 5/23/2023 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: Mao want an IWS Would love to learn more about the cartridge and magazines for it. Seriously though, why the heck did the Army adopt 6.8x51 over a true intermediate cartridge such as FN's proposal, 6.5 Grendal or 6 mm ARC? I don't get it. Might as well outfit the Army with AR-10s. Agree 100% mao IMO going 6.5 Grendel made the most sense. But, Army gonna Army. I still doubt they'll field the SPEAR to all infantry. I figure they'll end up sticking with the M4 for most troops and the SPEAR will phase out the SCAR as the main battle rifle. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 10/14/2023 1:31:39 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 10/14/2023 9:00:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks for the update. The pics of the adjustable gas block were poor. There is a screw up front though which I find odd. Hopefully the adjustment is similar to that of the SCAR or Sig 55x series.
Funny how the magazine looks like the 6.8 SPC PMAG developed for LWRC. Not shocking honestly, since the mags work quite well for that cartridge. Would love to see this rifle in 5.56 NATO and 6.5 Grendel. Not sure if the proprietary cartridge they're developing will be available to us or not honestly. People get great performance out of 6.5 Grendel in 12-16" barrels. Imaging this platform in 6.5 Creedmoor. Well maybe the Army will adopt this cartridge, and we'll get 6.x mm whatever for $400 per 1000 rounds 
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Posted: 10/14/2023 9:25:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: Thanks for the update. The pics of the adjustable gas block were poor. There is a screw up front though which I find odd. Hopefully the adjustment is similar to that of the SCAR or Sig 55x series. Funny how the magazine looks like the 6.8 SPC PMAG developed for LWRC. Not shocking honestly, since the mags work quite well for that cartridge. Would love to see this rifle in 5.56 NATO and 6.5 Grendel. Not sure if the proprietary cartridge they're developing will be available to us or not honestly. People get great performance out of 6.5 Grendel in 12-16" barrels. Imaging this platform in 6.5 Creedmoor. Well maybe the Army will adopt this cartridge, and we'll get 6.x mm whatever for $400 per 1000 rounds I'd love to see a side by side real world test with this next to 6.5 Grendel. I've said for years that there needs to be more adoptions of COTS stuff for a lot of these contracts. I think a lot of it ends up being similar to the large scale plane and vehicle stuff where a lot of money is spent for minor improvements. |
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Posted: 12/29/2023 9:38:01 PM EDT
[#40]
So it’s an Sig Spear without the consumer/end user beta testers?
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Posted: 12/30/2023 9:38:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: themao]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: So it’s an Sig Spear without the consumer/end user beta testers? Um no, it’s a long stroke piston system that is undergoing military testing with a proprietary cartridge. Let’s hope for an improved SCAR. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2023 4:05:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: Um no, it’s a long stroke piston system that is undergoing military testing with a proprietary cartridge. Let’s hope for an improved SCAR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: Originally Posted By cms81586: So it’s an Sig Spear without the consumer/end user beta testers? Um no, it’s a long stroke piston system that is undergoing military testing with a proprietary cartridge. Let’s hope for an improved SCAR. Plus, the Sig Spear is a full-on battle rifle. This is more of a true intermediate cartridge as I understand it. |
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Posted: 12/30/2023 4:14:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Weighs 10 pounds.
Costs $6000. Lifetime warranty but if you attach an optic or iron sights it voids the warranty. FN perfection. |
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Posted: 1/1/2024 11:59:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Looks heavy.
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MP, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2024 9:27:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By themao: Um no, it’s a long stroke piston system that is undergoing military testing with a proprietary cartridge. Let’s hope for an improved SCAR. And hopefully without the bendy POS handguard-receiver interface of the Spear. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 11:49:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Looks interesting. I’ll buy one if they come to market. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:05:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Looks cool, hope they don’t cost 4 grand though
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USA
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:13:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Treyak: Looks cool, hope they don’t cost 4 grand though You know it will. Maybe even $5k if FN feels gracious. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2024 7:52:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dissident: Looks heavy. Weight to be offset by your empty wallet. |
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Posted: 1/15/2024 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rigian: Patent language is so funny. Sell them on the structure. You can talk about it with confidence. Keep it simple. A little something like this, John. Hey. Let me walk you through the Donnelly nut spacing and crack system rim-riding rip configuration. Using a field of half-C sprats, and brass-fitted nickel slits, our bracketed caps, and splay-flexed brace columns vent dampers to dampening hatch depths of one half meter from the damper crown to the spurve plinths. How? Well, we bolster twelve husk nuts to each girldle-jerry, while flex tandems press a task apparatus of ten vertically composited patch-hamplers. Then, pin-flam-fastened pan traps at both maiden-apexes of the jim-joist. A little something like that, Lakeman. |
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