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Posted: 2/28/2020 12:13:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
I'm getting a K3P and intend to set it up as a G3K clone.
What exactly is the difference between the G3 collapsible stock and the G3K collapsible stock? If the full size collapsible stock can't be used on the K3P, is there any problem with using a full size fixed stock like a clubfoot on a K3P? Edited for correct model |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 12:25:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By m24shooter:
I'm getting a P3W and intend to set it up as a G3K clone. What exactly is the difference between the G3 collapsible stock and the G3K collapsible stock? If the full size collapsible stock can't be used on the P3W, is there any problem with using a full size fixed stock like a clubfoot on a P3W? 
I could not get my PTR G3K to run with a collapsible stock. I believe the telescoping guide rod is shorter than a full size stock unit. I changed locking pieces, springs and finally just picked up a G3K stock unit. It would never fully return to battery. A collapsing stock looks awesome, but a fixed stock is just more practical. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 12:43:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks. I was hoping to be able to use the A3 stock to save a little more space in the truck. I was considering the clubfoot stock so I may just go that route unless there’s some reason that won’t work.
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Posted: 2/28/2020 1:07:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jbntex]
[#3]
A factory German HK G3K runs the same identical A3 stock as the full size G3.
I am honestly not sure what model you are referencing in the PTR line "P3W" There is the the K3P from PTR which would be a G3K form factor-ish pistol clone. https://ptr-us.com/product/k3p-pdwr-ptr-111/ 
If this is the pistol you plan on SBRing and adding a stock, a standard G3 A3 collapsible stock should work just fine. I don't have the PTR 7.62x51 version as my G3K is built off a HK German host with a standard A3 stock, but I do have the PTR 7.62x39 "K" and I dropped a factory A3 stock right onto the gun without issue. The 12.5" barrel guns (x51 or x39) both run a standard G3 carrier, which is what dictates what style recoil rod you need. (fixed or telescoping) If you buy one of the PTR PDW "aka HK51" versions (either x51 or x39) with the 8.5" barrels you will need the telescoping recoil rod assembly. I also have the PTR 8.5" PDW x39 gun and it needed the telescoping recoil assembly. I ended up just cutting the telescoping recoil rod out of the pistol backplate and welding it into a A3 stock. However, HK parts has them for sale already done. A PTR PDW A3 stock can be found here: https://hkparts.net/product/retractable-stock-a3-ptr-pdw-p16100.htm Edited to add: As mentioned above the recoil rod length is determined by the carrier type (length of the upper tube) and the coresponding location of the charging handle cutout. You can see on the PDW the charging handle slot is cut way back into the receiver and extend to right over the magwell starts. This is because the upper cocking tube on the carrier is so short due to the drastically reduced length of the cocking tube above the barrel. The shortened carrier also dictates that the recoil spring rod telescope on the rearward recoil stroke. Otherwise the carrier would bottom out on the recoil rod and short stroke the gun or if cut short the carrier would lose spring pressure before getting into battery. 
On the K version the cocking handle slot is still in the welded on cocking tube in front of the receiver in the exact same spot as the full size, roughly 2" in front of the front of where the magwell starts. 
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Posted: 2/28/2020 7:35:35 AM EDT
[#4]
This is great info. Thank you. I’ve had the wrong stock all along.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbntex:
A factory German HK G3K runs the same identical A3 stock as the full size G3. I am honestly not sure what model you are referencing in the PTR line "P3W" There is the the K3P from PTR which would be a G3K form factor-ish pistol clone. https://ptr-us.com/product/k3p-pdwr-ptr-111/ https://ptr-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/PTR-111-K3P-tight-1024x358.jpg If this is the pistol you plan on SBRing and adding a stock, a standard G3 A3 collapsible stock should work just fine. I don't have the PTR 7.62x51 version as my G3K is built off a HK German host with a standard A3 stock, but I do have the PTR 7.62x39 "K" and I dropped a factory A3 stock right onto the gun without issue. The 12.5" barrel guns (x51 or x39) both run a standard G3 carrier, which is what dictates what style recoil rod you need. (fixed or telescoping) If you buy one of the PTR PDW "aka HK51" versions (either x51 or x39) with the 8.5" barrels you will need the telescoping recoil rod assembly. I also have the PTR 8.5" PDW x39 gun and it needed the telescoping recoil assembly. I ended up just cutting the telescoping recoil rod out of the pistol backplate and welding it into a A3 stock. However, HK parts has them for sale already done. A PTR PDW A3 stock can be found here: https://hkparts.net/product/retractable-stock-a3-ptr-pdw-p16100.htm Edited to add: As mentioned above the recoil rod length is determined by the carrier type (length of the upper tube) and the coresponding location of the charging handle cutout. You can see on the PDW the charging handle slot is cut way back into the receiver and extend to right over the magwell starts. This is because the upper cocking tube on the carrier is so short due to the drastically reduced length of the cocking tube above the barrel. The shortened carrier also dictates that the recoil spring rod telescope on the rearward recoil stroke. Otherwise the carrier would bottom out on the recoil rod and short stroke the gun or if cut short the carrier would lose spring pressure before getting into battery. https://ptr-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/PTR-PDWR-listing-view.jpg On the K version the cocking handle slot is still in the welded on cocking tube in front of the receiver in the exact same spot as the full size, roughly 2" in front of the front of where the magwell starts. https://ptr-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/PTR-111-K3P-tight.jpg https://ptr-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/PTR-A3S-listing-view.jpg |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 7:39:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#5]
Corrected OP for correct model, the K3P 12.5" barrel.
The source of my confusion on this is that everything I had been reading was that the K3P and G3K use the same bolt and carrier as the 91/91R. Then going through some older threads last night I saw a mention that the A3 stock wouldn't work with the K3P, as evidenced by HK Parts having a different stock for the PDWs. The K3P is listed as a PDW/pistol in the Atlantic website, and when I checked the HK Parts site it has a specific stock for the PDWs, and says the "regular" A3s can't be used with it and that they have specially modified the PDW stock to work. So I've got an A3 stock with Will Springfield's heavy buffer that I got for my 91R, and if the K3P and the 91R use the same carrier and bolt, I'm not seeing why they couldn't use the same stock. I've seen numerous pics of the K3P with tele stocks and full size stocks, so the HK Parts site prohibitions makes no sense to me based on my understanding of the system. HK Parts standard A3 stock, says not for PDW HK Parts PDW stock, says it's for PDW models both NATO and x39 ETA: What you're saying @jbntex makes sense, and I'm wondering if HK Parts is saying PDW but meaning the sub 12.5" barrel version. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 7:41:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By goloud:
This is great info. Thank you. I’ve had the wrong stock all along. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 10:35:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter:
Were you using the PDW stock and not the A3 stock? |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 11:51:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By goloud: Yes. Exactly. I feel dumb. I plan on calling PTR today and asking them about it. I talked to somebody there a couple of weeks ago about building up a G3K clone, which is exactly what he did, and he didn't say anything about "make sure you get the PDW A3 stock" or anything about the stocks for the G3 not working. Now I didn't specifically ask about that, but I think that would have come up. By the way, what LP are you using to get yours to run suppressed and do you have any problems with the can off? I have a #17 36* in my 91R and that things runs just about non-stop either suppressed or unsupressed. I've had very few problems with it after the initial break in and I leave the 36* LP in there. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 5:36:26 PM EDT
[#9]
PTRs model designation nomenclature leaves a bit to be desired.
I will try and take some pictures this weekend of the PTR full size, K, and PDW versions all side by side with the carrier and recoil rods/stocks removed so you can see how it all stacks up from a mechanical perspective. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 6:23:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Please do - I may even TACK it.
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Posted: 2/28/2020 10:17:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbntex:
PTRs model designation nomenclature leaves a bit to be desired. I will try and take some pictures this weekend of the PTR full size, K, and PDW versions all side by side with the carrier and recoil rods/stocks removed so you can see how it all stacks up from a mechanical perspective. I picked up my K3P this afternoon. This thing is going to be awesome once I have it SBR'd. Mine came with a 55* LP. I ordered a bunch of parts to clone it into a G3K, and I'll be putting the F1 in soon. ETA: I have the original 45* LP from my 91R that I may try in this one with a can. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 10:45:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter:
Excellent. I picked up my K3P this afternoon. This thing is going to be awesome once I have it SBR'd. Mine came with a 55* LP. I ordered a bunch of parts to clone it into a G3K, and I'll be putting the F1 in soon. ETA: I have the original 45* LP from my 91R that I may try in this one with a can. |
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Posted: 2/28/2020 11:09:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By goloud: IMO the G3K is one of the sexiest rifles ever made. Are you running a #17 LP on yours with the can? |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 1:24:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter:
There's a pic floating around of one with a clubfoot that is absolute tits. Ghilliebear has one that has a KAC unicorn rail and a Magpul stock that is right up there too. I plan on using the A3 stock so it will fit behind the back seat of my truck in the little cubby. Are you running a #17 LP on yours with the can? |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 9:15:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By goloud: Yup. #17. Just had it out two weeks ago. It’s a beast. I’ve had it on binary suppressed and wow, it’s a handful. |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 9:19:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#16]
There are the two back plates and recoil rod assemblies between the A3 stock and the factory K3P "PDW" pistol. As stated, they are the same length and composition, so I do believe that the HK Parts prohibition on the A3 stock for what PTR calls a PDW is misleading/incorrect. Thanks for all the input, and @jbntex I'm looking forward to your pics. |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 3:29:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Picture of broken down HK Rifles. Order is Stock, Carrier, Receiver (repeat) from top to bottom. I tried to keep everything in alignment from a rear pin hole perspective as possible and the front of the bolt head in alignment with the from edge of the receiver.
Top = PTR G3 2nd from top = German HK G3K 3rd from top = PTR G3K Bottom = PTR PDW You can see the carriers between the G3 and G3Ks are all identical and full size in length. The stocks also have full length recoil spring guide rods. The cocking handle location and cocking handle hold back notch are all in the same position on the three top guns as well. Its the PTR PDW with the 8" barrel where the carrier is shorter and the cocking handle slot and hold back notch is cut way back into the receiver sheet metal (so you can successfully charge the rifle). In addition on the PDW the recoil rod is the "telescoping" type which is overall shorter in the fully extended position than the normal A3 stock recoil spring guide rods. That's why if you try and use the telescoping recoil rod stock on a full size or K gun you will have problems as it cant push the bolt carrier group all the way forward like it should as its too short even in the fully extended position by roughly an inch. The telescoping stock will "slingshot" the BCG into the trunnion on a Full size or K gun if you charge the rifle via an HK slap, and the bolt locking lever + rollers will hold the BCG in battery, but the recoil spring has zero pressure on the carrier like it should.  Attached FileHope this helps. |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 3:35:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Thank you very much.
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Posted: 2/29/2020 7:20:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbntex:
Picture of broken down HK Rifles. |
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Posted: 2/29/2020 7:32:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Tacked
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MD, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2020 8:42:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Does anyone know of a collapsing brace that will work with the k3p pdw and give is the look of the g3k with out the hassle of a sbr syamp?
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MD, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2020 5:58:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kotowski_2008]
[#22]
I did the sba3 brace on mine. Looks decent actually. Need a good muzzle break though.
Does anyone make a collapsing A3 tail hook style brace ? |
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Posted: 4/7/2020 1:43:53 PM EDT
[#23]
After getting the F1 back, here is the HK Parts A3 stock on the K3P. Thanks for the info.
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Posted: 6/11/2020 2:51:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Highly recommend an a3 stock and cutting a carrier down for the plastic ammo. Both could be done with a mig if that’s all you have. The training ammo has a much lower rate of fire in my pdw compared to a full size.
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Posted: 6/16/2020 1:19:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ScorpioMk: Highly recommend an a3 stock and cutting a carrier down for the plastic ammo. Both could be done with a mig if that’s all you have. The training ammo has a much lower rate of fire in my pdw compared to a full size. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/3DBB5B99-D691-4296-A1D1-EFEFA06F7915-1456710.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/D3CF7B33-567B-4AC5-BE4D-0D6B9D7A4F99-1456711.jpg Are you running SA 30s? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/E731D108-E8C0-48FB-AB9B-1411F5D8B5A8-1456712.jpg |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2020 6:17:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Great thread- almost finished with mine with 21E stock-
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Posted: 6/17/2020 10:25:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JENROCKS: Great thread- almost finished with mine with 21E stock- If I do ever go with a fixed stock, that's likely what I will use. I have the A3 stock on there because I want this to be able to get in and out of a truck without a lot of manipulations and contortions. As an update, I slapped a Magpul SL on mine, and I'm really liking it so far. 
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Posted: 6/17/2020 10:27:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ScorpioMk: Highly recommend an a3 stock and cutting a carrier down for the plastic ammo. Both could be done with a mig if that’s all you have. The training ammo has a much lower rate of fire in my pdw compared to a full size. That's on my list. |
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Posted: 6/28/2020 6:46:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FADALdude: These are cetme mags, I do have other 30's but I havent run them. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2020 10:54:25 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 8/26/2020 1:36:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryMine is kind of heading in that direction, although I won't be using the rails system as they are incredibly hard to find, very expensive, and it won't work with my PTR anyway. There are several pics of that exact rifle and one other on the webs that show some good views of it, and there was a guy in the UK that built an airsoft version. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2020 10:46:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wayne1one]
[#32]
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Posted: 2/5/2021 10:19:43 AM EDT
[#33]
I run a standard collapsing G3 stock on my K3P SBR without issue. Its uncomfortable as hell, but it looks and works great
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Posted: 3/26/2021 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Revision 1 of this ran fine with the regular G3 collapsing stock before I cut it up to rebuild with better welds. Hopefully it will still run with the stock on Rev 2 with better welding skill applied. I still have to fit some parts and do some welding before I will know though.
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Posted: 4/9/2021 8:47:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kells81: Revision 1 of this ran fine with the regular G3 collapsing stock before I cut it up to rebuild with better welds. Hopefully it will still run with the stock on Rev 2 with better welding skill applied. I still have to fit some parts and do some welding before I will know though. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/43495/FA9C40E2-D587-43DB-A7FB-236A74BBFEEA-1880329.jpg  Not sure I'm ready to pull the trigger on a $2500 build from a reputable builder, and who knows when PTR will be releasing/building more K3P's and 32K's....  
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Posted: 5/19/2021 4:07:42 AM EDT
[#36]
I decided to put together a surplus HK BCG to replace my PTR BCG in my PTR K3P. I’ve seen a couple of mentions about which locking piece to use but what is the consensus? Number 18 locking piece?
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2021 1:55:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayne1one: https://live.staticflickr.com/7465/15758900938_a170d222b3_b.jpgIMG_0066 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/364/17878811104_34bb265357_b.jpgPTR-91 G3K Clone Build by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr @wayne1one Did you just take the cap off of the stock endplate/spring assembly and add the stock? I’m looking to do the same build just using The shorter 8.5” version and wondering if this will work. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:44:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m24shooter]
[#38]
 FYI if you are looking into picking one of these up, PTR is no longer manufacturing these (ETA: also the 7.62x39 pistol and one other version, but I missed what it was). They are switching to "higher demand items" which could include new calibers/models. Also, this does not mean that it will never come back, but there are no current plans to do so. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2022 2:00:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter:FYI if you are looking into picking one of these up, PTR is no longer manufacturing these (ETA: also the 7.62x39 pistol and one other version, but I missed what it was). They are switching to "higher demand items" which could include new calibers/models. Also, this does not mean that it will never come back, but there are no current plans to do so. Well dangit. What's your source? I get the sense they were having trouble moving the 8.5" barrel 308's.. no one wants them. I was hanging on for the 12.5" to come back on the market like I think a lot of people were. I might just give up on this project. An 8.5" barrel just doesn't fit what I wanted to do. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 2:53:40 PM EDT
[#40]
I have been searching for months for a K3P - unobtainium ! and no word from PTR or Atlantic as to when any more will come out !
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Posted: 3/21/2022 2:56:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mEnTL32: Well dangit. What's your source? I get the sense they were having trouble moving the 8.5" barrel 308's.. no one wants them. I was hanging on for the 12.5" to come back on the market like I think a lot of people were. I might just give up on this project. An 8.5" barrel just doesn't fit what I wanted to do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mEnTL32: Well dangit. What's your source? I get the sense they were having trouble moving the 8.5" barrel 308's.. no one wants them. I was hanging on for the 12.5" to come back on the market like I think a lot of people were. I might just give up on this project. An 8.5" barrel just doesn't fit what I wanted to do. My source is PTR. I called them last week and this info is what I was told. Originally Posted By Bigfish9202: I have been searching for months for a K3P - unobtainium ! and no word from PTR or Atlantic as to when any more will come out ! According to PTR, there are no plans for more to come out. They said that may change, but for now it's off. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2022 4:25:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Thanks for the legwork; really sad news. This would have been such a nice little Form-1 project. Now I truly have no reason to hang on to all the 308 ammo on my shelf.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 9:45:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mEnTL32: Thanks for the legwork; really sad news. This would have been such a nice little Form-1 project. Now I truly have no reason to hang on to all the 308 ammo on my shelf. No prob. The only way to find one by the sound of it is to find one on GB or in the EE or something. The guy I talked to suggested that to me, and when I told him I already had one he said I should hold onto it, and that I will probably be able to sell it for more than I paid for it. Which I have no plan of doing. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2022 10:44:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wayne1one]
[#44]
Yes, I just swapped the rear cap internals to the new stock. Sorry for the late response, I was locked out for a while
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Posted: 10/2/2022 11:10:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#45]
Considering SBRing my PTR pistol.
 It needs a can too. |
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Posted: 10/9/2022 2:29:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Stamp finally arrived for my K3P project. Glad to finally have a proper stock. Next step is to change the locking piece so I can run a can.
 Attached File |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2022 6:46:54 PM EDT
[#47]
I did a brace on my PTR years ago assuming at some point I would SBR it and use a telescoping HK stock, or someone would come out with a telescoping brace for them.
Keep in mind not all suppressors are rated for such shorts barrels in 7.62x51. |
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Posted: 12/1/2022 7:13:28 PM EDT
[#48]
I gave up trying to suppress it. Even with a #17 locking piece, it was unreliable. Not worth the headache to keep messing with it.
In the meantime, I found a beat-up collapsible for it. I thought I’d hate it, but like it a lot so far.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/17/2024 1:53:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BASE]
[#49]
This thread, right under my nose, has cleared up some questions I've had for quite some time regarding the 51P vs G3K carriers.
One thing that isn't 100% clear to me yet is how hard it is to swap the endplate out for a stock. I've been told I can't just buy a rifle stock and swap it out with a 51P. I only have a few 9mm roller locks, so maybe I'm missing something. Is the oddball recoil assy attached to the stock on the rifles in a way where I can't swap it out easily? Or is it recessed back into the stock further on a 51P? ETA: I quick visit to my friendly local MG dealer and I think I have it figured out. Looks like the aft end of the recoil rod fits through a hole in the endplate and is peened over like a big rivet. So semi-permanently installed, nothing like the 9mm ones I'm used to. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 3:00:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:
This thread, right under my nose, has cleared up some questions I've had for quite some time regarding the 51P vs G3K carriers. One thing that isn't 100% clear to me yet is how hard it is to swap the endplate out for a stock. I've been told I can't just buy a rifle stock and swap it out with a 51P. I only have a few 9mm roller locks, so maybe I'm missing something. Is the oddball recoil assy attached to the stock on the rifles in a way where I can't swap it out easily? Or is it recessed back into the stock further on a 51P? ETA: I quick visit to my friendly local MG dealer and I think I have it figured out. Looks like the aft end of the recoil rod fits through a hole in the endplate and is peened over like a big rivet. So semi-permanently installed, nothing like the 9mm ones I'm used to. If you just want an A2 fixed stock you can remove all the pistol/lanyard bits off the back of the PTR PDW pistol backplate and install the polymer section of an A2 stock no problems (unless PTR as recently changed the PDW pistol backplate) |
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