Hi Gear Guys,

I'm modifying a Spec Ops Recon Ruck Ultra in an attempt to put on par with what I believe would be a modern medium ALICE or a medium MALICE pack (needless to say it's going to take a lot of modification).  

One of the many features that the Spec Ops Recon Ruck lacks is that interior claymore pocket on the inside of the top main compartment lid of the pack.  Does anyone know what kind of material is being used for that pocket for the MOLLE 2's and MOLLE 4000 packs?   Perhaps just as importantly, does anyone know where I can buy that material online?

Thanks for your help. This is turning out to be quit the project, what I wouldn't give for Tactical Tailor to come out with a modern medium MALICE pack option.

Replacement ALICE inner lid panel:  EBay vendor armynavysales is offering a "2 Pack LC-1 ALICE Medium Field Pack Back Pack Replacement Flap Inner Lid Liners ".  Can't post direct link.

Contact Spec Ops and ask if that specific pack comes with an internal frame sheet.  If not, you will want to make one out of 1/16" thick black HDPE sheet from Grainger's, or use a frame.  Frame sheet almost as good as frame for this size pack, and a lot cheaper.  You will also want to install two horizontal compression straps with dual-adjust QD buckles--no-sew.

I wrote a long critique of this pack long ago on Spec Ops site; maybe it's still available.

Alternative fix for existing but deteriorated lids:  HERE

@KaerMorhenResident

My TT Malice seems to be 1000D Cordura throughout.  Issue ALICE packs are 420D Parapack according to some of the guys more versed in pack construction with the lower lid being a rubberized fabric as stated by Raf above.

Wow RAF, awesome intel brother.  Really appreciate your post.  This is why I still come to AR15.com.  I just ordered one of those.

There's a medium in the works, but I don't know when it will be available.

For the Malice Packs we mainly use 1000d Cordura and the Storm Flap and underside of the lid are made out of 400/420d

Do you work for, or affiliated with Spec-Ops?  Will be willing to repeat (as memory allows) my critique of the specific Spec-Ops pack mentioned by OP.  As I recall, not many changes (and inexpensive ones, at that) need be made to make it MUCH more useful.

Always glad to help.

I am not with Spec-Ops, I am with Tactical Tailor :)

That's what I thought.  TYVM!

Oh boy, with my luck you guys will release it just about the time I'm done customizing the heck out of Spec Ops Recon Ultra Ruck.  

I can't tell ya how nice a medium MALICE would be.  Love Tactical Tailor, keep up the good work brother!

It's in the works and there's no release date planned so don't hold off on your Spec Ops customization as even if/when something is released it still might not fit everyone's needs.

All the talk about Alice Mods on this forum and others does help me with market research and "troll" some ideas before a final version is made, or at least look into some solutions to what is being asked for.

One thing I've been kind of curious about is why Tactical Tailor is still using the larger ALICE style attachment loops on the sides of the MALICE pack rather than just doing 1" MOLLE webbing.  

One of the things I'll be doing with my Spec Ops Recon Ultra is adding single loop 1" molle in a vertical orientation onto each of the outer pockets to pass through a compression strap that will run from my MALICE frame around the pack.  

When products get NSN's like the Malice Packs or are in the procurement system it sometimes can be quite a pain in the butt to revise them, almost to a point where it's better to keep them the same and maybe design another product instead.
Which is why we did versions like the Rhino and now discontinued Regiment/RR5100 to address those "updates"

Ah, that explains it.

Well, I've got all the materials now I need to customize my Spec Ops Recon Ultra ruck.  Now, I have to sit down at some point and draft up my detailed instructions complete with pictures to hopefully explain to the normie seamstress  what I need done by them.  My biggest hurdle now is just effectively communicating what I want done in a way that they can easily follow.  in Michigan we just have people with pretty much zero experience sewing anything tactical.  I purchased a used ALICE Medium ruck to also provide them as a sort of template for what I'm looking to do.  

We're getting good weather already.  Should be able to get some good long distance rucks in once I have this pack all modiifed up and maybe a few overnights with it soon.  

P.S. I'm loving the MALICE frame and the ergo shoulder straps and waist belt from Tactical Tailor.  It's easy to see why it's the "gold standard" everything else is compared to these days.

My only gripe (and it's a significant one, IMHO) is that the TT MALICE Pack Frame is incompatible with cheap surplus ALICE "Shelves" which the OEM ALICE frame will accept.  One "shelf" for a 5-gal water/fuel can, Two "shelves" for multiple ammo cans.  All will require adequate "securing" straps.  The ALICE "shelves" will vertically secure many items if additional securing straps are employed.

Understood that the TT frame is very well made.  If it suits one's application, the TT frame is of excellent quality.  OTOH, applications can vary.

Given the slightly smaller vertical dimensions of the Spec-Ops pack vice original GI ALICE Medium pack, it may be questionable whether an external (ALICE or TT) frame is needed, vice a decent internal frame sheet.    

Carrying such big/heavy items requires appropriate devices (shelves) which the TT frame excludes, unfortunately.  There is no question that the TT frame is much better built than the GI frame, although a certain number of "improvements" can be made to a GI ALICE frame.

The Crossfire "MULE" attachment may be useful in carrying ammo/fuel cans in conjunction with the TT ALICE frame, but the combination of the "Mule" device, plus TT frame is very expensive-- far more expensive than a GI ALICE pack frame plus GI shelves.  Crossfire MULE

Possibly other mfrs/vendors offer similar items.  IDK.

I was lucky enough to grab a Crossfire MULE while on a stupid cheap sale.  Posted a link to such during sale.

I use my ALICE frames, nowadays, as load-carriers, and not "everyday" tactical items.  My ALICE frames are set up with MOLLE shoulder straps and MOLLE load bearing waistbelts, along with shelves and accessory straps to carry large and heavy objects.  Possibly of "unusual" configuration.  Imagine toting a vehicle transmission to a point where a stuck vehicle was stranded.  A tough job, but the TT frame, for all its good qualities might not be suitable.

At some point in the future, I might assemble a TT frame, a Crossfire MULE, and MOLLE shoulder pads and MOLLE waistbelt.  I'll need to find the TT frame on "Sale", hopefully.

That might be interesting.

NO slam against the TT MALICE frame.  It's very well made, but it does have its limitations. It's at $185, nowadays.  @RBarker

I've seen you post this about the shelf a few times on different subjects involving the Alice Frame vs. the Malice Frame, and I did some research about it, but in the over 17+ years of us producing the Malice Frame this request has only come up barely a handful of times.
While I would love it to fit the shelf, it's not something we are planning to redesign anytime soon.
We have done Molle attachments (Rhino Jr was its name) that go over the frame that can have a clamshell like attachment on it to carry large and heavy, it was mainly for Ammo Bearers so that 7.62 linked ammo pouches could be carried, but that was a special project for the Ranger Battalion here.
It was offered to the public awhile back but it didn't sell very well so it was dropped from stock.

As far as a Sale, there was one around Christmas time, but I cannot post those here due to this is my personal account and not a company one, and I didn't want any Coc issues.

I know the Frame isn't the only solution out there, and there are more options available, but I am listening and taking notes :)

Thanks for responding!  Allow me to say I'm the owner of multiple TT products and I'm fully satisfied with all of them.

I understand that the "shelf' for the ALICE frame is a "niche" item, but maybe might be more useful than one thinks, as I've tried to explain above.

NO disrespect towards you or TT.

Looking forwards to next Sale of TT frames so I can afford to buy one to work with Crossfire MULE and MOLLE shoulder straps and waistbelt.

Maybe, in the future, TT might make frames more "friendly" to cheap but effective GI "shelves" in order to improve the utility of such frames.  Maybe TT will make affordable substitute items, like the Crossfire MULE, which will allow TT frames to perform multiple duties.

Understood that modifying NSN Frame is problematic, but is it possible to make "shelves" which will augment the Frame's usefulness?

I'm a big friend and supporter of TT, but a true friend will tell you the truth, as I have tried to do.

Your friend and speaking as a friend. @RBarker.

Never thought what you said was disrespectful, constructive criticism is always welcomed and appreciated.
I've been doing this long enough to know the difference :)

All is good, then!  Best wishes!

I've owned several TT MALICE Packs and all were 100% 1000D.
I've owned several USGI ALICE (medium and large) and all were 420D.
I've owned a couple of SpecOps Recon Rucks.

I hike, GORuck, etc three times a week (WELL over 2,000 miles a year) and have done so for many years.  I ditched exterior frame packs many years ago. I prefer no frame or frame sheets for lighter "assault pack" size loads and internal aluminum stay frames for heavier loads (45 pounds and over).

Three times a week I haul a 56 pound frameless GORUCK pack around for 4, 4 and up to 25 miles.  Pack design has come a long way since the days of the ALICE and the clones.

My recommendation: find a different style of pack.

I appreciate that experience, but the MALICE frame works very well for me in conjunction with a plate carrier.

No worries!  I think about all of the gear I've bought over the past 41 years and get a little sick to my stomach.  Its awesome that people are finding something that works and then making improvements instead of chasing the newest.