Link to Data Survey .doc

Ammo Database

The database is up and running, so if you have a few moments after your range session, I (and everyone who looks at this in the future) would really appreciate you taking the time to fill out the submission form and get your data recorded in the database.

A few people have asked me why I'm going through all the trouble to do this when Federal Gold Medal Match is so widely regarded, here is my explanation:

Federal Gold Medal Match is definitely quality ammo, but it not always good gas-gun ammo. Most people don't realize that the GM308M (168SMK) and GM308M2 (175SMK) variants do not have crimped primers, which leads to a lot of blown primers when running a gas gun suppressed. The GM762M2 variant DOES have crimped primers, which makes it way more appropriate for running in gas guns, but it isn't as widely available as the GM308M or GM308M2. Additionally, the 168SMK and 175SMK are very old bullet designs. They are quality bullets, but they have been eclipsed by newer bullet designs that feature better BCs and more consistent construction bullet-to-bullet. If all you do is shoot paper at 100 yards, then the BC improvements don't really matter, but if you're running your gasser at 700/800/900/1,000+, then a 30-point G7 jump is SIGNIFICANT.

That is not a knock on FGMM, it is still the "gold standard" of match-grade ammunition. But that "gold standard" reputation was gained from bolt gunners, not gas gunners. It works well in some, but not all, gassers. I don't like blowing primers, so I don't shoot FGMM unless it is GM762M2. There are so many other options available that people either aren't aware of or dismiss without due reason simply because they believe FGMM is better. I am hoping that the database will illustrate what options might be better for our SR-25s by looking at a bunch of unbiased data collected from multiple rifles and shooters. I roll my own ammo, so I have no dog in this fight, but I do enjoy exterior ballistics, and shooting precision gassers is a passion of mine.

I've also inserted into the database a sheet that lists all the ammo that has been tested to date, with product numbers, BC numbers, and velocity/precision stats in case someone wants to just look at the ammo "at a glance" instead of combing through all the rifle results.

In the future, I hope the database will be able to show options that are FASTER/MORE CONSISTENT/HAVE A HIGHER BC/FUNCTION BETTER than the "gold standard" FGMM. If it does, then awesome. If it doesn't, then everyone should start reloading.

Off the top of my head, here are the manufacturers that are making match-grade ammo for .308win/7.62x51. These will all go into the database eventually, even if I have to shoot them all myself.

FGMM 168 SMK / 175 SMK / 185 Jugg OTM
Berger 155.5 Fullbore / 175 OTM / 185 Jugg OTM / 185 Jugg Target
Black Hills 168 SMK / 175 SMK / 155 TMK / 168 TMK / 175 TMK / 155 ELD-M / 168 ELD-M / 178 ELD-M
Hornady 155 ELD-M / 168 ELD-M / 178 ELD-M
Nosler 168 CC / 175 CC / 175 RDF
Barnes 175 MB
Fiocchi 168 SMK / 175 SMK
Gorilla 175 SMK
M118LR 175 SMK
Remington 168 SMK / 175 SMK
AE 168 SMK
Norma 168 SMK
Sig 168 SMK / 175 SMK
Winchester 168 SMK

Also, I don't want to record the shooter's name for each of the entries. This isn't a contest, I don't want anyone to feel like their accuracy results aren't good enough to submit. Everything in anonymous, so send me that data please! We aren't all sponsored pro shooters, I want the database to reflect real-world results, not cherry-picked best-out-of-5 groups that will skew the data.

Original post from 5/14/19 below:

Hey Everyone,

I’m going to create and maintain a database of factory match-grade .308Win/7.62x51 ammo that is suitable for use in our SR-25s. The topic of “which ammo should I shoot” comes up quite regularly, and I think it would be good to have a no-nonsense resource that contains objective, real-world data that people can turn to when this question arises.

I intend to create a read-only Google spreadsheet and insert the link into this thread so that everyone can use it whenever they wish. The spreadsheet will be pretty bare at first, but I hope that it fills with useable data as time goes on.

I would really appreciate it if you guys/gals would be willing to share your data with me. Here is the data I’m looking for, along with the submission criteria. The more data I can get, the better the end product will be. I have ZERO plans to use this for any commercial purpose, it’s strictly to help fellow KAC owners in here.

-FACTORY ammo type tested
-Rifle Model / barrel length
-chrome lined yes/no
-suppressed yes/no (if yes, what suppressor/mount)
-chronograph data (10 rounds minimum)
-ambient temp at time of data collection
-results in MOA at 100y/100m
-any pressure signs/function issues

In order to put the data in the spreadsheet and keep it comparable with other data collected, I think there needs to be some criteria put in place:

-Factory rifles or uppers only please. If you’re not running a factory gun then the data shouldn’t be in here.
-chronograph data from a Magnetospeed or LabRadar only. No optical chronos, no extrapolated velocity based on drop at distance, no guesses, etc.
-rifle should be shot from a rested bench or prone position.
-Match grade ammo only (for now). No SD stuff, no milsurp FMJ, no subsonic stuff.
-groups must be measured with some sort of app. Ballistic X is my preferred app, Sub-MOA is another one that also works well.
-chrono data and groups must be photographed in order to be included. Not saying I don’t trust you guys but......

I’m not a database guy, but I’ll learn how to make it so that the database can be sorted by ammo type, rifle type, velocity range, etc, so that you can quickly get the data you’re looking for.

I hope this works out, thanks for any help/info you guys/gals are willing to send me. Feel free to post up suggestions if you’ve got them.

Hell to the yeah, excellent idea!
Place holder..

Awesome idea, thanks for once again creating value for this sub forum.

Tag

Nice. Subbed.

Let me dig up my info on the FGMM 175, 185 and XM118 LR loads.

Great idea!

Survey is live, can you guys test the link and make sure you are able to download the .doc?

Thanks.

Link is good, doc downloads

Thank you.

Everything is live, feel free to send me all the data you want.

I'd **prefer** fresh data over stuff collected a few years ago, but anything is better than nothing.

SR25 14.5 CC + CQB can
168 FGMM

Sent to your data sheet email

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Thanks buddy.

Would adding the test target info from the rifle add value?

It would be interesting to see the baseline from factory compared to actual ammo experience.

Thanks for the suggestion.

If you guys want to send test target info, I will do a separate tab for it, but I don’t want to add that into the main data sheets. Precision is only half the equation, I don’t want blank velocity fields in there.

That would be great - I wondering if most shoot better than their test target once you find the ammo it likes to eat.

No way for me to compare a rifle’s test target with real world data unless I track serial numbers, which is something I won’t do.

I can compile a list of test targets, but that’s about as far as it will go.

Agree - sounds good.

Send me that data guys/girls. I updated the spreadsheet this morning, and I've got some more ammo/rifles lined out to test in the next few days.

Also, if you aren't able to contribute, what ammo would you like to see tested?

Shooting these wednesday

Out of what?

My work issues H 168 TAP AR ELD and I was surprised it didn’t group all that well out of my PC.

I am shooting it from an APC. Usually TAP does pretty good for me, but not today. Sent in the sheets and pictures as per the form. I was sucking it up while shooting groups, and this definitely did not help:

Updated, thank you!

I haven’t received a lot of response from you guys.

Please take a few minutes to send me your data so we can help ALL  of the SR-25 owners.

Yea, ill dig up my data this week.  Besn a crazy couple of weeks

I took my new SR25 ACC 16" out today. Used factory 175gr FGMM. Only modification is a MAMS brake.  Put 5 rounds down the barrel to get the irons and scope zeroed, then shot the 5 shot group. Ambient temp was about 82F and was indoors.

The app I used is lying a little. When I measured with a ruler, the group is 1" from center to center. Labradar was in use while getting zeroed and shooting the group.

Thanks, I'll update the spreadsheet

Don’t overlook Hornady #8105 if you can find it, good stuff!

I know this isn’t too helpful but I get about the same average accuracy with Magtech First Defense SNIPER 168 gr .308 loads out of my 16” APC as I do with 168 FGMM.  Both shoot better than 175 gr FGMM at 100 yards.

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Maybe I was getting tired.

Nice list, looks like I'd say Berger's advertised velocity is pretty spot on for their 175 loaded ammo.

Sent some more data your way. Thanks for putting this together.

14.5CC w/ SF 762 MINI
175gr .308 FGMM
75° F
Attached File

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16” chrome lined APC w/ KAC CRS
175gr .308 FGMM
75° F
Attached File


Groups were right around .8 but I don’t have any photos.

Picked up my ACC recently and will contribute results to this.