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Posted: 5/18/2018 7:57:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
I need an AOW... I think its the only kind of stamp I don't have. And since I have an M-11 Nine... Briefcase Gun
Is the briefcase itself an AOW... or only an AOW when configured with a gun in it? They shouldn't be to hard to build... But does anyone sell them outright? I checked subguns and Gunbroker and found nothing. If I go with a build, where does the serial number go... the briefcase? The gun? Does the briefcase get the MGs serial number on it? I have a few cans I could pair with it; YHM Cobra M2, TiRant 45, Evo 9, Tundra. Any build tips? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2018 11:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4thPointOfContact]
[#1]
Per Guns.com
Legality
The case is unregulated in its empty condition unless you happen to own an MP5 or a SP89 (semi auto MP5 pistol) while you also have said case. In that situation the gun inside (not the case) becomes an AOW and needs a tax stamp and registration under the NFA to be compliant. This is of course unless the weapon used with the case is already a registered AOW in and of itself. In that case, the briefcase is always just a briefcase. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 12:03:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Doesn't the Machine Gun trump the AOW category?
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:24:38 AM EDT
[#3]
So if I build a briefcase for my registered M-11/9 I wont need an AOW stamp?
Poop. 
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Posted: 5/21/2018 8:14:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger:
So if I build a briefcase for my registered M-11/9 I wont need an AOW stamp? Poop. Uzitalk is a good place for all things MAC. there's a very long thread on building your own MAC briefcase. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2018 2:54:51 PM EDT
[#5]
To get the "AOW" stamp (like the different $5 kind) you need to get one on a form4 anyway
If it's to add an AOW to the collection, then yes MG trumps AOW so you could get a briefcase for it without any further requirements and wouldn't make it an AOW You could do a briefcase build off an HK mp5 pistol, where the host could be registered as an AOW. A registered trigger pack could be added later for FA |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2018 9:54:42 PM EDT
[#6]
The above posters are correct. If your M11-9 is a registered MG you just build and go. If you use a semi auto in the case, the weapon must be registered as the AOW to use in the case. The case is just a case. It depends on what you put in it that makes a difference. I have one that I built and it is fun to take out every once in a while. Mostly a novelty with no real practical use but aren't MGs the same thing. Something different and fun to shoot. I built mine to be used with a suppressor. You could make one to use without.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2018 1:00:40 PM EDT
[#7]
... what if your firearm is already a registered SBR? Not sure that trumps AOW, and I don't think a SBR can also be registered as an AOW?
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Posted: 6/17/2018 7:13:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shblackdragon:
... what if your firearm is already a registered SBR? Not sure that trumps AOW, and I don't think a SBR can also be registered as an AOW? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2018 7:06:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evil_Ed:
My understanding is that it does Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Originally Posted By shblackdragon:
... what if your firearm is already a registered SBR? Not sure that trumps AOW, and I don't think a SBR can also be registered as an AOW? Maybe a 'case' for a DIY project? (slight pun intended) |
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Posted: 6/24/2018 7:47:13 PM EDT
[#10]
@chase45
Did you ever hear back from BATFE on your similar question? |
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Posted: 12/16/2021 12:13:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: @chase45 Did you ever hear back from BATFE on your similar question? I know this thread is years old But no I did not No reply @SiVisPacem |
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USA
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Posted: 12/16/2021 2:21:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: I know this thread is years old But no I did not No reply @SiVisPacem That's bullshit. It's not surprising, but, it's still bullshit. |
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Posted: 12/16/2021 7:23:37 PM EDT
[#13]
What was the question? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Posted: 12/17/2021 4:02:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtyHandsRob: What was the question? Inquiring minds would like to know. Can you stick a SBR in a firing briefcase without the stock; essentially MP5K SBR + briefcase At the time it was questionable by some here Anyways a briefcase never turned out so it didnt matter for me 
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Posted: 12/17/2021 6:58:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: Can you stick a SBR in a firing briefcase without the stock; essentially MP5K SBR + briefcase At the time it was questionable by some here Anyways a briefcase never turned out so it didnt matter for me Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: Originally Posted By DirtyHandsRob: What was the question? Inquiring minds would like to know. Can you stick a SBR in a firing briefcase without the stock; essentially MP5K SBR + briefcase At the time it was questionable by some here Anyways a briefcase never turned out so it didnt matter for me Ah, neat idea. Just make your own briefcase, I did one for my MAC, but it's FA, still fun though. Jams after about 5 rounds. |
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Posted: 12/20/2021 12:35:45 AM EDT
[#16]
I"m doing one with a Glock 17 and a pelican briefcase. I registered the Glock as an AOW and am slowly collecting parts for the case.
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Posted: 12/27/2021 11:45:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: Can you stick a SBR in a firing briefcase without the stock; essentially MP5K SBR + briefcase At the time it was questionable by some here Anyways a briefcase never turned out so it didnt matter for me Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45: Originally Posted By DirtyHandsRob: What was the question? Inquiring minds would like to know. Can you stick a SBR in a firing briefcase without the stock; essentially MP5K SBR + briefcase At the time it was questionable by some here Anyways a briefcase never turned out so it didnt matter for me This isn’t something I’d be comfortable with. The SBR and AOW here are very different and the legal definitions do not overlap whatsoever. A “machine gun” fires more than one round per trigger pull regardless of all other characteristics, you’ll never leave that definition. “Machine gun” and “suppressor” are the only NFA definitions that follow the function of the firearm, so they can take any physical form. All others follow a specific physical attribute; barrel length, presence of accessories, bore diameter, bore type, etc. A registered SBR would presumably have the stock removed to fit and function inside a briefcase, so it doesn’t follow “SBR” anymore. And installation of that firearm into a briefcase is also hiding/concealing/disguising it, which further transcends into “AOW”. Some would suggest it’s ok because “Hey, it’s NFA-registered, that’s good enough,” but those same people would never alternatively just put a buttstock on their registered AOW and say the same thing. Why? One doesn’t “trump” the other, they just follow different definitions. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 8:36:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Removing the stock from a short barrel rifle doesn't alter the fact that it's a short barreled rifle any more than removing the stock from a regular file turns it into a pistol in the eyes of the ATF. It's still a short barreled rifle, and as a short barreled rifle it can have all the foregrips it can handle...
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Posted: 12/28/2021 9:11:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evil_Ed: Removing the stock from a short barrel rifle doesn't alter the fact that it's a short barreled rifle any more than removing the stock from a regular file turns it into a pistol in the eyes of the ATF. It's still a short barreled rifle, and as a short barreled rifle it can have all the foregrips it can handle... Correct, but you’re reconfiguring it away from “designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder” and into more clearly regulated AOW territory as a disguised firearm. And an SBR can have a vertical foregrip and avoid “AOW” because as a “rifle” it’s already designed to be fired with two hands. This is quite different. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 9:19:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homeinvader: Correct, but you’re reconfiguring it away from “designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder” and into more clearly regulated AOW territory as a disguised firearm. And an SBR can have a vertical foregrip and avoid “AOW” because as a “rifle” it’s already designed to be fired with two hands. This is quite different. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homeinvader: Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: Removing the stock from a short barrel rifle doesn't alter the fact that it's a short barreled rifle any more than removing the stock from a regular file turns it into a pistol in the eyes of the ATF. It's still a short barreled rifle, and as a short barreled rifle it can have all the foregrips it can handle... Correct, but you’re reconfiguring it away from “designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder” and into more clearly regulated AOW territory as a disguised firearm. And an SBR can have a vertical foregrip and avoid “AOW” because as a “rifle” it’s already designed to be fired with two hands. This is quite different. ...just like you're reconfiguring a rifle when removing it's buttstock, now it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, either, if there's no buttstock. But the ATF has said if it's papered as a rifle, then it's a rifle whether it has a stock or not. Same with an SBR...that's why it's a short barreled RIFLE, and not a short barreled whatever. |
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Posted: 12/28/2021 10:48:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evil_Ed: ...just like you're reconfiguring a rifle when removing it's buttstock, now it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, either, if there's no buttstock. But the ATF has said if it's papered as a rifle, then it's a rifle whether it has a stock or not. Same with an SBR...that's why it's a short barreled RIFLE, and not a short barreled whatever. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Evil_Ed: Originally Posted By Homeinvader: Originally Posted By Evil_Ed: Removing the stock from a short barrel rifle doesn't alter the fact that it's a short barreled rifle any more than removing the stock from a regular file turns it into a pistol in the eyes of the ATF. It's still a short barreled rifle, and as a short barreled rifle it can have all the foregrips it can handle... Correct, but you’re reconfiguring it away from “designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder” and into more clearly regulated AOW territory as a disguised firearm. And an SBR can have a vertical foregrip and avoid “AOW” because as a “rifle” it’s already designed to be fired with two hands. This is quite different. ...just like you're reconfiguring a rifle when removing it's buttstock, now it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, either, if there's no buttstock. But the ATF has said if it's papered as a rifle, then it's a rifle whether it has a stock or not. Same with an SBR...that's why it's a short barreled RIFLE, and not a short barreled whatever. Correct, but you’re missing the additional step that makes this so tenuous. An SBR without the stock vs an SBR without the stock….and installed into a disguising briefcase. You’ve just run into the definition of an AOW, not just reconfigured an SBR. |
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Posted: 12/29/2021 12:05:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homeinvader: Correct, but you're missing the additional step that makes this so tenuous. An SBR without the stock vs an SBR without the stock.and installed into a disguising briefcase. You've just run into the definition of an AOW, not just reconfigured an SBR. Firearms that were rifles can never technically become AOWs (because they had a butt stock). The AOW definition states nothing about disguises. Evil_Ed is 100% correct. |
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