User Panel
I love my EA cans, and I own four now. I'm considering a fifth. But I really don't like how there are no tool features on the cans.
I swap my cans back and forth between ARs, bullpups and AKs. On the ARs and Bullpups I use a taper mount (Griffin Plan A). On the AKs, I use a lot of JMac X37 mounts with Hub threads. Because aside from HuxWrx, they are pretty much the only mounts out there that face mount on a muzzle, have a brake to protect my blast baffle and are threaded in 14x1LH and 24RHx1.5RH. I have to remove my taper mount adapter so I can thread the can onto the JMac X37 when I shoot my AKs. Then when I want to shoot my ARs and Bullpups, I have to remove the can from the JMac mount (which is attached to the rifle, often timed with shims. So I don't want to remove the mount from the rifle) and then replace the Hub taper mount adapter. This is kind of annoying and sometimes difficult when there are no tool features on the can (It's easy with my Griffin Explorr for example). I also can not do this at the range with EA cans since I have to use the vice block to hold the can. Spanner notches are very helpful. Wrench flats are very helpful. |
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Noting to add but a bit of feed back.
I really like to see a company on forums like this that would likely be buyers of your products. I like to manufactures asking for do you want to see, what do you need. Then I especially like to see someone from the company (that knows their sh!t) coming in providing support to folks that will inevitably have a few issues with product, whether its a product issue or a end user issue. I don't normally have issues with products I buy, but its nice to know I can easily get help if needed. Laure used to be big in this, One of the things that got me sold on their product is, Mark (the owner) coming here and providing info. I had bought my 1st LaRue scope mount and was trying to mount it and a fairly spendy (at least for my budget) Night Force Scope and was going to a shoot the next morning, so I wanted to get my gun ready. I had a question on Torque specs and tightening order, I posted it to their group hoping one of the other shooters that had mounted a few might respond. Maybe 15 mins later, he responded with a video explaining and confirming my thoughts on how to go about it. There have been several other similar examples like that. I'm on a few Car Audio FB groups and some of the Audio companies like Sundown Audio , have folks in the groups that help dispel BS info given by other and provide help when needed.... |
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LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: ""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply."" |
I hate using spanner wrenches and prefer using wrench flats.
I really like the tools and how they’re used on my Rugged Alaskan 360. |
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Originally Posted By kedminster: Third question: Does anyone actually like face pin spanners and why have you chosen to be wrong if you do like them? Karl 'The Tool Man' Edminster Energetic Armament View Quote I like face pin spanners. Most companies cheap out and send the janky single tooth wrench for the edge engagement that require two hands until you apply enough torque; I ain't got two hands, only one and two fifths. Ain't so much a choice, as figuring out what works to keep doing what I want and what I enjoy. |
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Originally Posted By kedminster: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483018/20230428_141851-3195740.jpg We supply thin wrenches and grease packets in the box with every silencer we sell. Every centerfire silencer gets a Vox Blox vise block. People like getting a product ready to use right out of the box and not getting nickeled and dimed for components/tools they need to actually use the product. First question: What other tools would you like to see offered or modifications to existing tools? Several people have already suggested adding a 3/8" square hole to the wrenches to allow them to be used with a torque wrench like a crows foot. Second question: Are you in camp spanner slots or camp wrench flats? Why? Third question: Does anyone actually like face pin spanners and why have you chosen to be wrong if you do like them? Karl 'The Tool Man' Edminster Energetic Armament View Quote Pin spanner holes on faces often allow better tool fit / tool support to prevent tool slippage or user inadvertently cocking tool off of work piece providing there is sufficient depth of pin engagement. Pin holes can be located in areas with deeper cross section. Multiple pins distribute force over several work piece features compared to a single hook spanner in a notch. A stout enough multi-pin tool can be fixtured with pins upright in a vise allowing a two handed grip on the suppressor held vertically or one hand on suppressor and one hand on a wrench engaging suppressor flats or notches and gravity is a stabilizing third hand. This can be less wonky than the two crossed wrench technique, mainly because of integrating a vise into the two-tool approach. Pin spanner holes lighten pieces with a nice clockwork style. Pin spanners are cheap, adjustable and available from other fields (bicycles, grinders). A functional pin spanner can be easily fabricated from hardware store bar stock and dowel pins and eyeball tolerances with a battery powered drillyreamer and an Estwing speed wrench. Internal pin spanner holes on a direct thread mount stuck to a recessed muzzle can be engaged with a long reach two-pin ‘socket’ dremel’d out of a piece of water pipe. Pin spanners suck when you red Loctite a never-gonna-change masterpiece and the brain cells that used to hold those memories are lost in the same cabinet as your torch rosebud. Or was it left hand threaded?… |
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Originally Posted By kedminster: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/483018/20230428_141851-3195740.jpg We supply thin wrenches and grease packets in the box with every silencer we sell. Every centerfire silencer gets a Vox Blox vise block. People like getting a product ready to use right out of the box and not getting nickeled and dimed for components/tools they need to actually use the product. First question: What other tools would you like to see offered or modifications to existing tools? Several people have already suggested adding a 3/8" square hole to the wrenches to allow them to be used with a torque wrench like a crows foot. Second question: Are you in camp spanner slots or camp wrench flats? Why? Third question: Does anyone actually like face pin spanners and why have you chosen to be wrong if you do like them? Karl 'The Tool Man' Edminster Energetic Armament View Quote How about an option to NOT get tools and stickers? Save $30? I suppose IF a suppressor manufacturer/dealer are too busy and the tools too diverse it might be more trouble than it's worth... For example - I have 4 YHM suppressors and only use one of the tools they sent. NONE of the stickers OR - instead of putting tools inside a QR code you can redeem for $X of stuff |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I love my EA cans, and I own four now. I'm considering a fifth. But I really don't like how there are no tool features on the cans. I swap my cans back and forth between ARs, bullpups and AKs. On the ARs and Bullpups I use a taper mount (Griffin Plan A). On the AKs, I use a lot of JMac X37 mounts with Hub threads. Because aside from HuxWrx, they are pretty much the only mounts out there that face mount on a muzzle, have a brake to protect my blast baffle and are threaded in 14x1LH and 24RHx1.5RH. I have to remove my taper mount adapter so I can thread the can onto the JMac X37 when I shoot my AKs. Then when I want to shoot my ARs and Bullpups, I have to remove the can from the JMac mount (which is attached to the rifle, often timed with shims. So I don't want to remove the mount from the rifle) and then replace the Hub taper mount adapter. This is kind of annoying and sometimes difficult when there are no tool features on the can (It's easy with my Griffin Explorr for example). I also can not do this at the range with EA cans since I have to use the vice block to hold the can. Spanner notches are very helpful. Wrench flats are very helpful. View Quote Great feedback; thank you! Adding tool provisions directly to the cores is challenging as it usually adds weight (which you know we loathe to do!). Your mention of a range tool to grab the can when you don't have a vise available has definitely sparked some ideas Let me see what I can come up with! Karl Edminster Chief Tinkerer & Question Asker Energetic Armament |
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Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Pin spanner holes on faces often allow better tool fit / tool support to prevent tool slippage or user inadvertently cocking tool off of work piece providing there is sufficient depth of pin engagement. Pin holes can be located in areas with deeper cross section. Multiple pins distribute force over several work piece features compared to a single hook spanner in a notch. A stout enough multi-pin tool can be fixtured with pins upright in a vise allowing a two handed grip on the suppressor held vertically or one hand on suppressor and one hand on a wrench engaging suppressor flats or notches and gravity is a stabilizing third hand. This can be less wonky than the two crossed wrench technique, mainly because of integrating a vise into the two-tool approach. Pin spanner holes lighten pieces with a nice clockwork style. Pin spanners are cheap, adjustable and available from other fields (bicycles, grinders). A functional pin spanner can be easily fabricated from hardware store bar stock and dowel pins and eyeball tolerances with a battery powered drillyreamer and an Estwing speed wrench. Internal pin spanner holes on a direct thread mount stuck to a recessed muzzle can be engaged with a long reach two-pin ‘socket’ dremel’d out of a piece of water pipe. Pin spanners suck when you red Loctite a never-gonna-change masterpiece and the brain cells that used to hold those memories are lost in the same cabinet as your torch rosebud. Or was it left hand threaded?… View Quote A cogent response as always; thank you! I cede to your well laid out argument and withdraw my objections to pin spanners. This is the kind of discussion I love when I go into something with a notion but am able to see a new viewpoint and learn something along the way. Karl Edminster Pin Spanner Convert Energetic Armament |
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Originally Posted By ar15joe: How about an option to NOT get tools and stickers? Save $30? I suppose IF a suppressor manufacturer/dealer are too busy and the tools too diverse it might be more trouble than it's worth... For example - I have 4 YHM suppressors and only use one of the tools they sent. NONE of the stickers OR - instead of putting tools inside a QR code you can redeem for $X of stuff View Quote Comes down to a logistics thing: Easier/cheaper to provide in each box than to offer different levels of accessories (and more SKUs). Too expensive to distribute them after the fact with something like a coupon code. You would be astounded by how important the stickers are to some buyers. I have had multiple times where a sticker was lost somewhere during the process (usually by the dealer) and the customer wanted a replacement which I happily sent. Also stickers are cheap advertising that definitely end up on range boxes, cases, tool boxes, workbenches and trucks. Karl Edminster Sticker Distribution Coordinator Energetic Armament |
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Originally Posted By kedminster: Great feedback; thank you! Adding tool provisions directly to the cores is challenging as it usually adds weight (which you know we loathe to do!). Your mention of a range tool to grab the can when you don't have a vise available has definitely sparked some ideas Let me see what I can come up with! Karl Edminster Chief Tinkerer & Question Asker Energetic Armament View Quote |
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I'm down with wrench flats or face pin spanners.
I never have really liked side spanner- no matter how careful you are, they always seem to slip. I do also really enjoy seeing features that utilize common tools like 1/2 wrenches etc. I carry a tool kit in my truck but might now always remember to have a specific silencer tool with me. KGM used to do an allen key aperture on their SWARM rimfire can. I dug that as well. Q uses something similar where a socket can be used. I guess my overall advice would be design features around commonly available tools, and try to steer away from specialty tools. All that said I love Vox Blox and always have since we discussed them so many years ago. I recommend them quite often and they're one of the best tools that a silencer nerd can own. |
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Some people shouldn't own boats. -Hollister
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I don't own an EA cans so not sure what they do or do not come with, but l know ECCO purposely sells their cans with nothing extra to keep their costs down for the consumer.
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I’m in the camp of wrench flats and sockets. I don’t dislike spanner wrenches, but I do dislike then cheap wrenches that stretch/warp/bend/break. The new DA ones with two teeth work well, but only fit DA.
And Vox Blox are a life saver as well |
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Wrench Flats Wrench Flats Wrench Flats
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It takes away some of the visual impact when you can't see it.
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Wrench flats are great. If the fitting is side spanner style, making them the castle nut dimension means I can always find a wrench, and it can be as quality or cheap as I decide.
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It takes away some of the visual impact when you can't see it.
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Originally Posted By ikickhippies: I never have really liked side spanner- no matter how careful you are, they always seem to slip. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ikickhippies: I never have really liked side spanner- no matter how careful you are, they always seem to slip. Originally Posted By aksahsalahs: I don't dislike spanner wrenches, but I do dislike then cheap wrenches that stretch/warp/bend/break. The new DA ones with two teeth work well, but only fit DA. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BVL7ZBY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
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Real talk? STLs so I can just print the tool I need at home.
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Originally Posted By ikickhippies: I'm down with wrench flats or face pin spanners. I never have really liked side spanner- no matter how careful you are, they always seem to slip. I do also really enjoy seeing features that utilize common tools like 1/2 wrenches etc. I carry a tool kit in my truck but might now always remember to have a specific silencer tool with me. KGM used to do an allen key aperture on their SWARM rimfire can. I dug that as well. Q uses something similar where a socket can be used. I guess my overall advice would be design features around commonly available tools, and try to steer away from specialty tools. All that said I love Vox Blox and always have since we discussed them so many years ago. I recommend them quite often and they're one of the best tools that a silencer nerd can own. View Quote Thanks Derek! We are moving away from hook spanner designs to wrench flats for mounts. Agreed that wrench flats in common sizes are a practical, efficient solution. Folks: If you own a Vox Blox in a size other than 1.5" (the OG Vox blox) then you have this man to thank! Derek and I crossed paths at a tradeshow (NRA? SHOT?) years ago and he saw the OG Vox Blox. He asked if I could make one for a rimfire and that started Vox Blox (and all the copies since) as a thing. I traded him a spreadsheet list of common diameters for the first batch of blocks. |
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A comment and a question
Comment: I'm also on team wrench flats. There are other ways to do it but imo nothing as versatile and robust as simple flats. To the extent they can come in a relatively "standard" size, even better. Question: Can a Vox block provide enough clamping force to torque down a HUB adapter? Some cans just don't give you much purchase to keep them in place while torquing down an adapter and that can be a nightmare. I guess one could try and clamp the body in soft vice jaws but something about that scares my peanut brain |
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Originally Posted By 135Patriots: A comment and a question Comment: I'm also on team wrench flats. There are other ways to do it but imo nothing as versatile and robust as simple flats. To the extent they can come in a relatively "standard" size, even better. Question: Can a Vox block provide enough clamping force to torque down a HUB adapter? Some cans just don't give you much purchase to keep them in place while torquing down an adapter and that can be a nightmare. I guess one could try and clamp the body in soft vice jaws but something about that scares my peanut brain View Quote The Vox blox should give you enough clamping force and the nice thing about their design is you really can't overtighten and damage the silencer. You can literally wrench down your vise till the ears come to full contact and the silencer will be fine. Because the force is more uniformly applied around the entire circumference they don't 'egg' the silencer out of round like V-jaws do where you are squeezing directly with the vise on the diameter. I would not recommend squeezing the body of the Vox Blox directly in a vise as this could potentially damage the silencer. If you were having slip issues a little bit of rosin or even masking tape can increase the friction between the silencer and block. Karl Edminster Tight Grip Tool Aficionado Energetic Armament |
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Where possible, I like flats (big enough for a non-ground-skinny wrench or crow's foot) and integrated features like a square or hex socket shape built into an endcap opening, or a standard socket sized external feature. The more that common sizes are used the better. It's great to not need a new tool / size for every new item.
Edit - thin flat stock wrenches may work, but in the back of my head I'm expecting them to deform like the other thin flat wrenches I've encountered. (mostly from flatpack furniture -those usually suck) |
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Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
... Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman |
Originally Posted By Amish_Bill: Edit - thin flat stock wrenches may work, but in the back of my head I'm expecting them to deform like the other thin flat wrenches I've encountered. (mostly from flatpack furniture -those usually suck) View Quote |
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I think cans that use spanner wrenches look better, but I slightly prefer cans with wrench flats so I can crank on them if necessary.
I got a couple OTC 4791 Adjustable Spanner Wrenches off of Amazon. They work very well. |
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Originally Posted By kedminster: You would be astounded by how important the stickers are to some buyers. I have had multiple times where a sticker was lost somewhere during the process (usually by the dealer) and the customer wanted a replacement which I happily sent. Also stickers are cheap advertising that definitely end up on range boxes, cases, tool boxes, workbenches and trucks. Karl Edminster Sticker Distribution Coordinator Energetic Armament View Quote Word. Guys who buy $1000 silencers are made happy by cheap vinyl stickers. I started buying generic gun and Second Amendment stickers from Temu and keep a pile on my tabletop. |
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Word. Guys who buy $1000 silencers are made happy by cheap vinyl stickers. I started buying generic gun and Second Amendment stickers from Temu and keep a pile on my tabletop. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By kedminster: You would be astounded by how important the stickers are to some buyers. I have had multiple times where a sticker was lost somewhere during the process (usually by the dealer) and the customer wanted a replacement which I happily sent. Also stickers are cheap advertising that definitely end up on range boxes, cases, tool boxes, workbenches and trucks. Karl Edminster Sticker Distribution Coordinator Energetic Armament Word. Guys who buy $1000 silencers are made happy by cheap vinyl stickers. I started buying generic gun and Second Amendment stickers from Temu and keep a pile on my tabletop. I remember when you could get a rad suppressor for a logo tattoo. The good old days. |
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