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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:49:43 PM EDT
I have been having some issues on my Dillon 550 where I sometimes have to exert significant force to get a 9mm case "unstuck" from the belling/powder dump station. Sometimes, it's enough to eject the primer from its cup on the way back on that station. Yesterday, I decided to do some test loads of 147gr GDHP with CFE pistol. grabbed my bag of 9mm brass, and sorted out 15 that had the same headstamp. MON was the first I got 15 of.
Using the 550 in "single stage press mode", every single case needed a bear effort to get off of the expander. Sometime, I had to hit the lever hard with my palm to get it unstuck. I pulled off the powder measure, pulled out the expander, and polished it with some scotch brite - it didn't help. After that fiasco, I grabbed a few more non-MON cases, and they released from the expander with relatively little effort. I dug out a few more MON cases, and same thing: Extreme difficulty. The weird thing is that the MON cases were tumbled with SS pins, so the inside was still "dirty", and other headstamps that I tumbled with pins were squeaky clean and didn't stick. I pulled out 5 MON and 5 S&B cases and measured them. There was no real deviation between the brands after running them through the sizing die. 0.371-0.372" outside diameter when measured 1/16th down from the case mouth, and wall thickness of 0.012". Has anyone experienced "sticky" brass like this before? I think I'm just going to cull out the MON cases to save myself some trouble, although I can't tell why they would be sticky. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#1]
One of the reason I stopped wet tumbling pistol brass years ago was due to the sticking problem with the Dillon powder funnel.
Is the length of the MON brass the same as the S&B? Was the S&B wet tumbled with Wash & Wax and the MON with just soap? Wash & Wax adds a bit of slickness to the case. Why aren't the MON cases as clean as the S&B? |
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[#2]
Starline brass- seems to be associated with the Dillon powder funnel . The land for expanding case mouth is too long and when you begin to bell mouth the bottom of expander gets into the thicker taper of case and wedges causing it to be very hard to get back out. We have modified several by increasing radius on end and slightly shortening expanding land and this eliminated the problem completely.
Or lube inside case mouth. Or buy RCBS sizing die that maintains the case taper. Or maybe chamfer and deburr. |
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[#3]
Originally Posted By johnnydjr: One of the reason I stopped wet tumbling pistol brass years ago was due to the sticking problem with the Dillon powder funnel. Is the length of the MON brass the same as the S&B? Was the S&B wet tumbled with Wash & Wax and the MON with just soap? Wash & Wax adds a bit of slickness to the case. Why aren't the MON cases as clean as the S&B? View Quote Sometimes I wet tumble, sometimes I don't. I never use wash&wax, only Dawn and a bit of Lemishine. Maybe I'll go back and check the case length - don't know why I didn't think to measure that. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#4]
Is it possible the dirtiness that remains in the MON brass after cleaning is some type of sealant/tar used at the factory?
I've seen it on speer nickel brass before. I could see something like that causing an issue like you are having. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#5]
Originally Posted By Zhukov: I have been having some issues on my Dillon 550 where I sometimes have to exert significant force to get a 9mm case "unstuck" from the belling/powder dump station. Sometimes, it's enough to eject the primer from its cup on the way back on that station. Yesterday, I decided to do some test loads of 147gr GDHP with CFE pistol. grabbed my bag of 9mm brass, and sorted out 15 that had the same headstamp. MON was the first I got 15 of. Using the 550 in "single stage press mode", every single case needed a bear effort to get off of the expander. Sometime, I had to hit the lever hard with my palm to get it unstuck. I pulled off the powder measure, pulled out the expander, and polished it with some scotch brite - it didn't help. After that fiasco, I grabbed a few more non-MON cases, and they released from the expander with relatively little effort. I dug out a few more MON cases, and same thing: Extreme difficulty. The weird thing is that the MON cases were tumbled with SS pins, so the inside was still "dirty", and other headstamps that I tumbled with pins were squeaky clean and didn't stick. I pulled out 5 MON and 5 S&B cases and measured them. There was no real deviation between the brands after running them through the sizing die. 0.371-0.372" outside diameter when measured 1/16th down from the case mouth, and wall thickness of 0.012". Has anyone experienced "sticky" brass like this before? I think I'm just going to cull out the MON cases to save myself some trouble, although I can't tell why they would be sticky. View Quote Using a Dillon powder funnel? Is Monarch brass stepped inside? Primers should never fall out unless they are being decapped. Sounds like your primer pockets have enlarged if some banging make them fall out. I use an aftermarket powder funnel with all my straight case pistol set ups in a SDB that preforms the same as a Lyman M die, and always wet tumble my cases. I do get a little sticking, but it isn't enough to bother me. If cases are dry tumbled for 15 minutes in plain corn cob they come out slightly dusty. This dust acts as lube and allows powder funnel to release smoothly. Helps a lot. So to summarize, sounds like bad cases to me, or need some "dry tumble dust" for lube. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#6]
I don't see the Monarch brass as looking different (stepped) inside. This is using the powder funnel that comes with the 550.
I went ahead and culled out all the MON brass (I think there were only 20-30). It's still weird that there isn't anything that sets this brass apart from others that I measured. I grabbed 5 more and measured the length - they were all about the same as everything else I compared them to. Pretty much the only thing left as an explanation is that the brass alloy is slightly different that makes it "stick" more to the expander. Maybe I'll try one last experiment and scrub the inside of the cases with a bronze brush to see if has an effect as I still have the cases in a little baggie for further experiments. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#7]
Your cases are too clean. On some powder funnels(most) the brass is too clean and is galling on the expander. Tumble them in some type of dirty dry media for 15 min as Dry said. It will go away. This is another reason I dont wet clean my brass.
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[#8]
Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: Your cases are too clean. On some powder funnels(most) the brass is too clean and is galling on the expander. Tumble them in some type of dirty dry media for 15 min as Dry said. It will go away. This is another reason I dont wet clean my brass. View Quote They're not. I have other cases that were tumbled with SS media that were perfectly shiny inside and expanded with no issues. The Monarch brass was not shiny inside. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#9]
Are you sure the monarch brass is really brass and not brass plated steel cases?
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[#10]
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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[#11]
Originally Posted By Zhukov: I'll take some pictures in the morning and post 'em up. View Quote I had some brass coated steel 9mm cases years ago that when wet tumbled the brass plating came off in places and gave the steel away. If not steel, I will go with your different alloy theory. I would put them in the crap bucket in any case. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
[#12]
I'm also thinking different alloy OR different heat treatment.
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[#13]
Kind of agree with some of the other ideas:
Plated steel casings? Add a wash/wax step? (Always a good idea) Euro casing with tighter inner diameter or step? 9mm brass is so common and cheap (or free to pick up). Problematic cases aren’t worth the hassle. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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[#14]
I've had this experience as well, and my solution was lubing all cases for all calibers.
I wasn't a believer of using lube on 9mm until I had galling on both my sizing die and brass sticking on the dillon powder die. Lube fixed both issues. I do wet tumble and my brass was too clean. I use the spray alcohol lanolin recipe from ultimate reloader. One side effect is potentially powder clumping in the case from lube, but so far I haven't seen a real problem with that at the range. |
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[#15]
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#16]
#1 get a scotch brite cleaning pad and soak with the copper remove
#2 clean the funnel. US and SS Tumbling take away the firing residue that acts as lube. So if you must use above then run through case polisher with corn cob media. |
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jme and I am a NRA Endowment Member
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. R W Emerson |
[#17]
This is a new one to me. I would imagine this is a die issue, more than press specific. FWIW I run Honrady Dies and their LnL progressive, and don't experience this with any brand brass.
And I wet tumble. Usually with chips, but lots of time without media - no difference. |
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[#18]
Originally Posted By rn22723: #1 get a scotch brite cleaning pad and soak with the copper remove #2 clean the funnel. US and SS Tumbling take away the firing residue that acts as lube. So if you must use above then run through case polisher with corn cob media. View Quote As mentioned in my OP: I already used Scotchbrite to clean the funnel, and I also mentioned that squeaky-clean cases (like the S&B brass) do just fine, yet the slight-dirtier MON get stuck. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#19]
Forgot to mention: The MON cases are NOT magnetic.
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
[#20]
I use a cap full of Armorall wash & wax in the wet tumbler. Seems to provide just a little bit of lube.
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Call sign "Notorious"
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[#21]
Couple more random thoughts:
Check the thickness of the brass at the case mouth. Clean it longer in soap/lemi shine, and follow with wash/wax cycle. Too clean is “sticky” anyhow, and a wash/waxed casing is more resistant to corrosion if you are storing a while before reloading it. Those Monarch cases all appear to have crimped primers, so probably not a fun 9mm casing to reload anyhow. While I do actually lube pistol casings when carbide sizing them (every 10th one maybe, makes things a lot easier), not sure I would want to lube the inside of the mouth. Just gives the powder something to stick to when charging the case. I get the need to find an answer, even when discarding them is the easy solution! Leaning towards thicker case mouths personally. Some Euro 9mm is known for this I believe. I have never seen the tar sealant used on pistol ammo, so while that might account for the inner surface dirtiness, I would be surprised if it was the cause. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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[Last Edit: STJ]
[#22]
Once I stared wet tumbling I got frequent cases getting "stuck" on the 650's powder funnel.
the thicker the case the more it will stick. CBC brass is a frequent offender. using wash n wax instead of dawn helps |
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[#23]
this is a issue of the cases have no lube in them to prevent sticking. It does not matter that they look like they are dirty. If you clean with the pins or chips they are too clean. Listen to the people that are telling you to run them in dirty media. The cases are galling on the powder die. Thats why they stick. People are trying to help you but you are not listening. Take the advice.
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[#24]
I'm a bit curious as to why none of the aftermarket suppliers for Dillon powder funnels ever seem to have considered titanium nitride coatings. It seems like it would be a natural.
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[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#25]
With the 750, I found leaving it slightly dirty (no pins or limiting tumble time), using wash n wax when wet tumbling, and/or AA Academy funnel were all strategies that help. Dry tumbling instead leaves dust in the neck, and that helps, too.
You could also change to running a prep cycle and a loading cycle, using lube inside the necks on the prep cycle. I’d also consider ditching (or selling) that brass. I use a different press/dies now, and probably wouldn’t have as much trouble with it, so maybe someone would be happy with it. |
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