User Panel
Posted: 8/20/2023 10:25:06 AM EDT
Now hear this...
As I sit here inside, warm and dry, with a cup of hot coffee in hand, I think about patrolling out in the bush. Now some of you will go: well, no shit, Diz, what's the big deal about being warm, dry and a nice cuppa? Well, that there, which is considered A Given for lots of folks, is actually "a really good deal" by those who know better. Knowing smiles from all you bush-bunnies. I think airsoft/Mil-Sim, here after called Mil-Sim, is developing into a viable training venue. What was once thought as a bunch of kids playing dress-up army, has morphed into sophisticated training exercises. I will leave the whys and wherefores for the GD, and try to confine this discussion to the nuts n bolts of it. In non-permissive societies, world-wide, folks are doing some serious training, that so-called "real-deal" guys on square ranges would do well to emulate. Well if you're into to that sort of thing, which we are, so let's continue. It almost seems like this is a no-brainer, right? But many will still poo-poo this, as they pump rounds into their targets, static, from 5 m. And no, I am not banging on square range training. Well sorta, but for the right reasons. So again, as I visualize myself on the "jungle trail", as it were. Which I shouldn't be on, as you well know. So OK, as I move silently through the bush, I weave my way past trees n shrubs. Yeah that's better. I check my azimuth; find a steering point. Got it. I check in with the guy behind me. Everybody still there, ok. I then scan my surroundings. Left, center, right. All clear. I then look where my feet are going to step. Carefully roll into the next spot. And repeat. Can you smell the jungle yet? Can you hear the birds and other critters? Maybe you can hear the faint tinkle of the creek up ahead. Maybe the wind picks up and you hear a rush through the trees. You step in and out of sunshine and shadows. You feel the difference on your face. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Your senses see-saw, from full alert, to dull boredom, as you fight to keep your mind from wondering, and stay focused on the task at hand. In another few steps I will drop a bead and have a full K. I will probably call a security halt, re-set my beads, confirm my general location. A lot of you haven't done that since your basic training. Many more haven't done that at all. No, video games don't count. For many of you, that may have brought back memories; for many more, you're like WTF? Of course I'm just visualizing a movement here. You have to have a point A and a point B you're moving to. And a reason for doing it as well. These days something like this is called "an off-set", like hey I want to land on the "X" but someone said we needed to sneakier than that, and boogey through all this brush. Back "in the day", this was just considered business as usual. You didn't just "land on the "X", unless you wanted to get your ass shot off, or have a dry hole. Now I am really getting out into the weeds, huh? But the point I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, if you can't find the target you're looking for, what good are ya. Ever since the G-WOT we have had this huge emphasis on highly accurate combat shooting. Which is fine, but it has also been accompanied by this huge de-emphasis on core fieldcraft skills, for lack of better term. Again, back in the day, 90% of your training was on fieldcraft, and maybe 10% live fire. Today that has been reversed. I think neither outcome is optimal. Maybe we need to strive for something in between. This is where Mil-Sim comes in. When executed properly, it is an awesome venue for folks to acquire these skills, safely, instead of just jerking off at the range. If you subscribe to a sort of crawl, walk, run approach, which I do, then it is an excellent gate-way into live fire and maneuver training. Regardless of whether you use airsoft replicas, shooting pellets, or real weapons with blanks, learning these kinds of skill sets is easier, faster, safer than with live fire. Some will argue that point, but I think, all things considered, it is the best way to roll. Especially in increasingly non-permissive environments for some. And the irony, which I'm sure has not escaped many of you, is that training with real weapons is frowned upon, even prohibited in many places, but playing "airsoft" is OK. At least right now. ..That is all. |
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Hello...is this thing on?
OK, have no clue what that was about. But here we are. |
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TL;DR version?
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I fully agree with you Diz. I get out to do MILES events at least once a year, and I've been thinking airsoft could be a somewhat cheaper and more frequent option to add. But honestly, I enjoy the patrolling, the real work, more than I enjoy the firefights. From what I've seen online, even the milsim airsoft games seem to be way heavier on the shooting. It makes sense, because thats what most folks are paying for.
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It's also interesting to note that blank fire is being included in higher level airsoft. I think the MILES training is superb, but requires access to a good outfit that is using/supporting it. If I had that near me, I'd do it.
And for sure, a lot of airsoft is shooter-centric, but higher levels are at least exploring more fieldcraft in multi-day events. |
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Robert W. Service
The Nostomaniac On the ragged edge of the world I'll roam, And the home of the wolf shall be my home, And a bunch of bones on the boundless snows The end of my trail . . . who knows, who knows! I'm dreaming to-night in the fire-glow, alone in my study tower, My books battalioned around me, my Kipling flat on my knee; But I'm not in the mood for reading, I haven't moved for an hour; Body and brain I'm weary, weary the heart of me; Weary of crushing a longing it's little I understand, For I thought that my trail was ended, I thought I had earned my rest; But oh, it's stronger than life is, the call of the hearthless land! And I turn to the North in my trouble, as a child to the mother-breast. Here in my den it's quiet; the sea-wind taps on the pane; There's comfort and ease and plenty, the smile of the South is sweet. All that a man might long for, fight for and seek in vain, Pictures and books and music, pleasure my last retreat. Peace! I thought I had gained it, I swore that my tale was told; By my hair that is grey I swore it, by my eyes that are slow to see; Yet what does it all avail me? to-night, to-night as of old, Out of the dark I hear it -- the Northland calling to me. And I'm daring a rampageous river that runs the devil knows where; My hand is athrill on the paddle, the birch-bark bounds like a bird. Hark to the rumble of rapids! Here in my morris chair Eager and tense I'm straining -- isn't it most absurd? Now in the churn and the lather, foam that hisses and stings, Leap I, keyed for the struggle, fury and fume and roar; Rocks are spitting like hell-cats -- Oh, it's a sport for kings, Life on a twist of the paddle . . . there's my "Kim" on the floor. How I thrill and I vision! Then my camp of a night; Red and gold of the fire-glow, net afloat in the stream; Scent of the pines and silence, little "pal" pipe alight, Body a-purr with pleasure, sleep untroubled of dream: Banquet of paystreak bacon! moment of joy divine, When the bannock is hot and gluey, and the teapot's nearing the boil! Never was wolf so hungry, stomach cleaving to spine. . . . Ha! there's my servant calling, says that dinner will spoil. What do I want with dinner? Can I eat any more? Can I sleep as I used to? . . . Oh, I abhor this life! Give me the Great Uncertain, the Barren Land for a floor, The Milky Way for a roof-beam, splendour and space and strife: Something to fight and die for -- the limpid Lake of the Bear, The Empire of Empty Bellies, the dunes where the Dogribs dwell; Big things, real things, live things . . . here on my morris chair How I ache for the Northland! "Dinner and servants" -- Hell!! Am I too old, I wonder? Can I take one trip more? Go to the granite-ribbed valleys, flooded with sunset wine, Peaks that pierce the aurora, rivers I must explore, Lakes of a thousand islands, millioning hordes of the Pine? Do they not miss me, I wonder, valley and peak and plain? Whispering each to the other: "Many a moon has passed . . . Where has he gone, our lover? Will he come back again? Star with his fires our tundra, leave us his bones at last?" Yes, I'll go back to the Northland, back to the way of the bear, Back to the muskeg and mountain, back to the ice-leaguered sea. Old am I! what does it matter? Nothing I would not dare; Give me a trail to conquer -- Oh, it is "meat" to me! I will go back to the Northland, feeble and blind and lame; Sup with the sunny-eyed Husky, eat moose-nose with the Cree; Play with the Yellow-knife bastards, boasting my blood and my name: I will go back to the Northland, for the Northland is calling to me. Then give to me paddle and whiplash, and give to me tumpline and gun; Give to me salt and tobacco, flour and a gunny of tea; Take me up over the Circle, under the flamboyant sun; Turn me foot-loose like a savage -- that is the finish of me. I know the trail I am seeking, it's up by the Lake of the Bear; It's down by the Arctic Barrens, it's over to Hudson's Bay; Maybe I'll get there, -- maybe: death is set by a hair. . . . Hark! it's the Northland calling! now must I go away. . . . Go to the Wild that waits for me; Go where the moose and the musk-ox be; Go to the wolf and the secret snows; Go to my fate . . . who knows, who knows! OP reminds me of this. I read it 2-3 times/week to my kids. I can't speak of current training but has a Hawaii Marine from the early 2000s we were probably 80/20 field/shooting. I think it should be 50/50. |
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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AH what have we here, a K-Bay Alumni? Our "Alpha" Co was out your way and would come out to the Rock for SubOps once a year.
Yeah for us it was 90% bush, and 10% (maybe) live fire. We lived up in the NTA! |
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I don't airsoft and kind of wandered into here , but You are hitting on something here so lets have a look at my take for what it's worth (former CQB instructor and Long range patrol team member).
CARBEEN TACTICOOL CLASSES ETC. OK these tend to have real guns but lack any real training value as they do not advance beyond very very basic techniques due to range and safety limitations. These advanced courses also rely on lots of range theatrics to make the client / victim feel as though he has value for money (remember the silly exagerated look left look right shit literaly no one in the real world does). So a fine day out playing operator for the weight watchers navy seal in your life. SHOUTING BANG. The oldest and most cost effective method of training that makes you feel like a complete dick ! BLANK FIRE TRG. Blank fire training has stood the test of time with the military but must have a set of goals to achieve rather than a free for all noise fest. For example section attack , advance to contact, ambush . The Blank fire is there to add a little realism to the exercise to Que a reaction but in all reality the exercise could (and more commonly) be carried out without any Blank or pyro . Laser/ MILES/SAWES A late 80's advance that is very good especially when fully integrated into all weapon systems. Again we must have a clear goal as to what our training is trying to achieve a free for all is a pointless laser tag afternoon without the birthday cake. What lasers can't do, shoot through cover, ballistically match weapon systems. Again the exercise could be run and achieve it's aim without the use of laser kit and blank ammunition. AIRSOFT I'll start with a caveat I have very limited exposure to airsoft most of which I have seen on youtube. If we are to train again we must have a clear set of training objectives we wish to achieve it is not enough to charge up your battery and load your BB's and head out. As an outsider who has watched grown ups at airsoft sites when I was dropping off my kid my first impression is their is a lot of playing dress up involved (do you need the strobe on your helmet shooting at 14 year olds?) the next one is ammunition loading up you mags with 100's of rounds may be good play but in reality your ammo load would be over 30 pounds. Limitations , slow ammo you can watch fly, not ballistically matched to your weapons you are training for, unable to shoot through cover dry wall trees etc, no/silly noise, watching the BBs flight instead of using sights , limited range. What could you achieve with airsoft ? with realistic ammunition loads 30 rds not 300rds per mag Use of umpires, debriefing after phases and a clear training objective a lot of good value training could be achieved. A SUMMARY FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH Most training is enhanced by the use of simulation but it must have an objective if it is a free for all with no clear objective, You just end up slipping into playing soldier with airsoft guns which is fine but it is not training. 1.Practice practice practice. 2.Get fit get very fit. 3.shoot! shoot a lot! 4. if you intend on working in a team train together often. |
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Aye, matey, you bring many good thoughts to the party.
And you are right; you must approach the training with the right mindset or you're just jerking off. Now some people like that, but let's say here we are talking about legit training. From what I've seen, the higher end gats are using a 35-rd mag and gas charge, so you have to change mags, as in real life. So I think the attempt is being made, for those who care, to simulate more realistic encounters. Yes, it's much more expensive, but from my POV, that's the price of admission. I'm talking about something like the Tokyo Marui M-4 GBBR type rifle. Then you have some outfits that are doing blank-fire training, and even MILES training. And I think you're right; when you want to emphasize more actual maneuver over pure live fire training, it gets the closest to it. And ultimately, live fire and maneuver is the shit. But also the most dangerous. So for sure this can be a hobby or fun past time, but, it can also be legit training. |
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Tagged for interest. I've always thought airsoft looks like a good way to do FoF training. Also a good way to check out new shooters at matches, let them make a few airsoft runs through a couple stages to evaluate their gun handling.
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I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free. |
absolutely but someone needs to do the boring bit and set out what is the aim , what standards do we wish to achieve and then write up a training plan.
a fire power demo ripping up dry wall, a tree brickwork and a bush would do no harm and get everyone thinking about what is cover from view and what is cover from fire in the real world. Ps. a demo of what is effective fire and what is just noise wouldn't go a miss! |
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I would think more "gun/prepper" folks would have an interest in airsoft or mil-sim. Shooting fundamentals are great and mandatory but small team guerilla tactics are more realistic from a prepper standpoint. You get plenty of that in milsim events. Just a bunch of random folks that need to figure out how to use teamwork to get the job done. And you have a crap load of fun too.
It's also a great opportunity for guys that have done this stuff in real life to learn how to apply it to the non mil/le guys. Let's be real, if we were using any of this stuff in real life outside of our careers, it's going to be end of the world type situation where you have to utilize your neighbors for teammates. Airsoft can be a great way to build those leadership skills and teach. You can always tell when there's a couple squads running around that have current/former mil guys running the show. They are a force to be reckoned with. |
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