User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/9/2023 5:32:24 AM EDT
I guess the old thread fell off. Has there been any news?
Iirc the release date was supposed to be Q2, but maybe they've gone back and fixed that terrible handguard? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/9/2023 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#1]
I think I saw Q3 at some point so it should be soon.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 7:53:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Still waiting. Also hoping for an Arad
|
|
|
|
NE, USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 10:00:47 AM EDT
[#3]
2 on gunbroker right now listed at mrp.
The listings show different models/furniture. I haven’t followed the development of this but are there two furniture options? Likely short barrels in the future? |
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 12:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 556Cliff]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SperlingPE: 2 on gunbroker right now listed at mrp. The listings show different models/furniture. I haven’t followed the development of this but are there two furniture options? Likely short barrels in the future? No way they are going to be selling the original unmolested version alongside the Americanized version. I'd really be shocked if that was the case. Probably just using the wrong picture on that one listing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 1:04:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kwb377]
[#5]
If you read the description on the auction showing the Israeli model, it states model #CSR16...which is the Americanized M-Lok/no sights version. They're description also says "1:8" twist, when all the specs I've seen say the rifle is 1:7".
I think it's a case of the seller grabbing the first stock internet photo when they Google'd "IWI Carmel" and using it as they're as pic...or maybe they did it on purpose to try and reel someone in that thinks they're getting the Israeli model and counting on the buyer not wanting to deal with the hassle of sending it back. I also noticed they say their lead time for shipping after receiving payment is 7 - 10 days. All red flags to me to stay away from that seller. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 3:10:55 PM EDT
[#6]
This guys says they're shipping, are they really, I dunno...
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/The-Carmel-is-Shipping/2-546093/ |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 3:26:03 PM EDT
[#7]
They say they are on their instagram feed. I'd be interested if they kept the original forend, but the front half of the gun is now just another mlok AR looking rifle.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cv2V9TrLexs/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== |
|
|
NE, USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 6:39:19 PM EDT
[#8]
And they are sold off of GB
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 6:41:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Citizen904]
[#9]
I’m curious how much the weight is and what the balance is like. Seems redundant to the Bren 2 carbine in the collection but cool none the less.
Looking at some shot show videos of it, it looks like people are flipping this thing around pretty easily so maybe it’s so polymer intensive that the weight and handling will be significantly better than the overbuilt Galil aces? Maybe it’s more like the love child of a Bren 2 and ARX100. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2023 11:39:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Definitely not buying until the original version or conversion is available.
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 8:19:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Definitely not buying until the original version or factory conversion is available.
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 8:51:34 AM EDT
[#12]
I’m not buying until I can locate one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 8:54:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Want!
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 9:17:52 AM EDT
[#14]
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1003725838
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 10:08:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: Definitely not buying until the original version or factory conversion is available. You do know that IWI has a whole manufacturing facility here in the US where they will be making parts for it? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 11:33:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision: You do know that IWI has a whole manufacturing facility here in the US where they will be making parts for it? Yes... they’re the ones that changed it from exactly what I want to what I don’t want. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 11:48:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Park-Hit-Run: Definitely not buying until the original version or conversion is available. The US model makes me puke. Loved the original design. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 1:21:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: Yes... they’re the ones that changed it from exactly what I want to what I don’t want. Fair enough. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 3:26:16 PM EDT
[#19]
I checked one out in the flash and the handling on. It feels pretty good. Close to a Bren 2 in terms of overall weight and balance. I’m headed home with it to get a weight on it and will post a table top comparison video on banggangguns on YouTube.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 5:58:54 PM EDT
[#20]
I’ve been fortunate enough to talk to the VP of sales in person and a few of the IWI employees. They’re all great dudes and excited for the Carmel. Honestly I don’t like the name but they don’t pay me to name their stuff so that’s out.
Talking to them they say this rifle really shines suppressed and is superbly accurate. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 6:41:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Citizen904]
[#21]
I uploaded a quick tabletop review.
 The IWI Carmel is Here! Tabletop Review, Weight, unboxing, comparisons vs Bren 2, X16, JAKL, etc. |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#22]
I am interested
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 7:56:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Solo_]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Citizen904: I uploaded a quick tabletop review.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZsPPxoTFEI do have an ACR (SBR) and Beretta (ARX) SBR in addition to the fact that I liked the earlier look of the Carmel better (mainly handguard) but it is a nice rifle. I forget if it has quick barrel changing options? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2023 11:18:49 PM EDT
[#24]
That thing is a pig
|
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 12:01:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mk4dubbin: That thing is a pig Jiminy Christmas 8.5 lbs slick. WTF. |
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 3:21:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Yup, not buying it unless it at least has the OG handguard. It’s not Israeli made, it’s overweight, the 2x4 hand guard looks generic as shit, doesn’t have QD bbl, they removed the adverse gas setting, etc there is literally no reason to buy one for me.
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 7:00:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Solo_: Excellent video. I do have an ACR (SBR) and Beretta (ACR) in addition to the fact that I liked the earlier look of the Carmel better (mainly handguard) but it is a nice rifle. I forget if it has quick barrel changing options? They ditched the QD barrel. Rumor is there are accessible retention fasteners after removing the HG. But it's not field strip capable. A single accessible fastener would've been fine, but IWI abandoned it altogether, my guess is for improved accuracy. AUG & ARX are the only 2 rifles out there with tool-less QD barrels. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 7:27:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: They ditched the QD barrel. Rumor is there are accessible retention fasteners after removing the HG. But it's not field strip capable. A single accessible fastener would've been fine, but IWI abandoned it altogether, my guess is for improved accuracy. AUG & ARX are the only 2 rifles out there with tool-less QD barrels. Only reason I asked is, I prefer shorter barrels - I would probably SBR a Carmel |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 3:34:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By METT-T: Jiminy Christmas 8.5 lbs slick. WTF. Kinda chubby. My gen 1 Ace, in 7.62x39, is 8lb 2oz with sights. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 3:44:06 PM EDT
[#30]
I was pretty interested in it and got to shoot it some at the IWI booth. Not sure what "specs" that one had , but it was a nice shooter. Did not feel overly heavy with a small red dot on it. Depends on price once they settle down some if I will buy.
|
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2023 5:58:09 PM EDT
[#31]
922r is a thing, and it’s not going away anytime soon. IWI could avoid it by making the entire gun here, but that’s likely not going to happen either. So we have to get a gun that’s imported in a neutered condition, with some features deleted, and then foreign parts get replaced by US made parts. A US made mag is easy, and AR grips and US made handguards are common, and cheap replacement parts. That said, they could have spent some time and effort in making a US handguard that looked more like the original instead of the monstrosity that they put on it. It’s very unlikely the IWI will import factory replacement parts that replace their U.S. parts, even assuming that they fit the US spec receiver, which they may not. Similarly, it’s unlikely that they’ll spend the resources to make new US parts that more closely resemble the military guns. It’s likely that we’ve gotten what we’re going to get from IWI. We’ll probably have to depend on aftermarket producers like Manticore Arms and HBI.
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 1:23:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: 922r is a thing, and it’s not going away anytime soon. IWI could avoid it by making the entire gun here, but that’s likely not going to happen either. So we have to get a gun that’s imported in a neutered condition, with some features deleted, and then foreign parts get replaced by US made parts. A US made mag is easy, and AR grips and US made handguards are common, and cheap replacement parts. That said, they could have spent some time and effort in making a US handguard that looked more like the original instead of the monstrosity that they put on it. It’s very unlikely the IWI will import factory replacement parts that replace their U.S. parts, even assuming that they fit the US spec receiver, which they may not. Similarly, it’s unlikely that they’ll spend the resources to make new US parts that more closely resemble the military guns. It’s likely that we’ve gotten what we’re going to get from IWI. We’ll probably have to depend on aftermarket producers like Manticore Arms and HBI. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 1:40:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FullAssault: . It was my understanding this is entirely US made. I hadn’t heard that, but if it’s true then some of the changes they made are completely mystifying. There’s nothing with the gun or in the manual saying you have to use a U.S. magazine or anything. On the other hand, the receiver markings both say IWI-Israel and IWI US-Middletown PA. I wouldn’t think they would say IWI-Israel if was completely US made. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 5:07:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: I hadn’t heard that, but if it’s true then some of the changes they made are completely mystifying. There’s nothing with the gun or in the manual saying you have to use a U.S. magazine or anything. On the other hand, the receiver markings both say IWI-Israel and IWI US-Middletown PA. I wouldn’t think they would say IWI-Israel if was completely US made. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By FullAssault: . It was my understanding this is entirely US made. I hadn’t heard that, but if it’s true then some of the changes they made are completely mystifying. There’s nothing with the gun or in the manual saying you have to use a U.S. magazine or anything. On the other hand, the receiver markings both say IWI-Israel and IWI US-Middletown PA. I wouldn’t think they would say IWI-Israel if was completely US made. I had also heard it was entirely US made in an effort to avoid ATF shenanigans like they’ve had with the Tavor where parts were suddenly and randomly disallowed for import like the 9mm and .300BLK parts. I suspect the Israeli markings are likely because of international patents and such. IWI is pretty careful with their planning now. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 7:51:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Direct from a significant employee at IWI.
“Barrel Receiver Bolt carrier Bolt Some barrel components” are US made. Everything else is kosher. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 8:55:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision: Direct from a significant employee at IWI. “Barrel Receiver Bolt carrier Bolt Some barrel components” are US made. Everything else is kosher. Are you saying that list is of the US parts, or foreign parts? The mag and grip are definitely US parts. I’d be surprised if the handguard wasn’t US made also. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:40:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Are you saying that list is of the US parts, or foreign parts? The mag and grip are definitely US parts. I’d be surprised if the handguard wasn’t US made also. It’s not the exact list of everything but the barrel and other components listed are made in the USA. The handgaurd I think is US made as well. But everything else is made in Israel. Form my understanding. I didn’t ask him for an exact list of what’s what but that’s the gist of it. |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2023 9:48:07 PM EDT
[#38]
So basically the stock is they only thing isreali made.
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 8:11:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NoDakWolfPack]
[#39]
Whoa! This thing was very quietly released. Ive been following it for two years, and I had no idea it’s been out for two weeks.
The regular YouTube shills and online rags must’ve not been given free samples 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 3:51:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Whoa! This thing was very quietly released. Ive been following it for two years, and I had no idea it’s been out for two weeks. The regular YouTube shills and online rags must’ve not been given free samples I suspect because more people would have made noise about the handguard. I'm still holding out hope they'll release a version with the correct handguard. |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 4:53:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jm11513: I suspect because more people would have made noise about the handguard. I'm still holding out hope they'll release a version with the correct handguard. You know, an aluminum copy of the correct handguard would probably be lighter than both of the current variations. Hopefully we can get that, at the very least. |
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 8/29/2023 5:47:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 556Cliff]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: You know, an aluminum copy of the correct handguard would probably be lighter than both of the current variations. Hopefully we can get that, at the very least. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Originally Posted By Jm11513: I suspect because more people would have made noise about the handguard. I'm still holding out hope they'll release a version with the correct handguard. You know, an aluminum copy of the correct handguard would probably be lighter than both of the current variations. Hopefully we can get that, at the very least. I wonder about that. Is aluminum really lighter than polymer given the same dimensions? I know with the ARX when you remove the barrel and BCG that the polymer upper (with stock) and lower are like a feather. I believe if the ARX had it's upper machined out of aluminum that it would end up being heavier. I think the reason that the ARX is the lightest of the 3rd Gen rifles is because it's mostly polymer. A PMAG is heavier than an aluminum mag, but the dimensions are very different. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2023 4:13:41 AM EDT
[#43]
The Carmel is on my wishlist.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2023 6:13:06 PM EDT
[#44]
 IWI US Expert's Corner: Carmel Rifle Disassembly and Reassembly |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2023 1:15:30 PM EDT
[#45]
 IWI Carmel - The Whole Story |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2023 9:28:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 556Cliff: I wonder about that. Is aluminum really lighter than polymer given the same dimensions? I know with the ARX when you remove the barrel and BCG that the polymer upper (with stock) and lower are like a feather. I believe if the ARX had it's upper machined out of aluminum that it would end up being heavier. I think the reason that the ARX is the lightest of the 3rd Gen rifles is because it's mostly polymer. A PMAG is heavier than an aluminum mag, but the dimensions are very different. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 556Cliff: Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Originally Posted By Jm11513: I suspect because more people would have made noise about the handguard. I'm still holding out hope they'll release a version with the correct handguard. You know, an aluminum copy of the correct handguard would probably be lighter than both of the current variations. Hopefully we can get that, at the very least. I wonder about that. Is aluminum really lighter than polymer given the same dimensions? I know with the ARX when you remove the barrel and BCG that the polymer upper (with stock) and lower are like a feather. I believe if the ARX had it's upper machined out of aluminum that it would end up being heavier. I think the reason that the ARX is the lightest of the 3rd Gen rifles is because it's mostly polymer. A PMAG is heavier than an aluminum mag, but the dimensions are very different. Aluminum is 2-3 times denser than the polymers typically used in firearms. Sven Manticore Arms |
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 9/2/2023 9:40:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 556Cliff]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Aluminum is 2-3 times denser than the polymers typically used in firearms. Sven Manticore Arms Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By 556Cliff: Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Originally Posted By Jm11513: I suspect because more people would have made noise about the handguard. I'm still holding out hope they'll release a version with the correct handguard. You know, an aluminum copy of the correct handguard would probably be lighter than both of the current variations. Hopefully we can get that, at the very least. I wonder about that. Is aluminum really lighter than polymer given the same dimensions? I know with the ARX when you remove the barrel and BCG that the polymer upper (with stock) and lower are like a feather. I believe if the ARX had it's upper machined out of aluminum that it would end up being heavier. I think the reason that the ARX is the lightest of the 3rd Gen rifles is because it's mostly polymer. A PMAG is heavier than an aluminum mag, but the dimensions are very different. Aluminum is 2-3 times denser than the polymers typically used in firearms. Sven Manticore Arms So given similar dimensions aluminum would be heavier. At least that's what I'm hearing you say? |
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 9/3/2023 2:08:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Aluminum is 2-3 times denser than the polymers typically used in firearms. Sven Manticore Arms Are you by chance going to make some that at least looks similar to the OG hand guard? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/3/2023 9:58:03 AM EDT
[#49]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/3/2023 11:31:44 AM EDT
[#50]
I was just noticing how on IWI's advertisement of the Carmel (that stamp shaped thing that appears on some gun sites), the barrel is DEFINITELY shorter - to offset the frankly weird balance of longer, 16.1" barrels (plus muzzle devices) that also were affecting many other rifles (ARX, ACR etc.)
Have a look - seems like probably a pinned and welded barrel I don't blame them, it's a US federal thing but still  |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
