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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:15:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: turbojosrt4]
Anyone else get one?? I got a approved form 1 on a ap5 like a year ago and now got a refund check today?
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:17:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Did you request a cancellation of the form 1 and refund of the tax?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:20:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Nope that's what confusing me
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:21:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Eform or paper?
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:26:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbojosrt4: Nope that's what confusing me If it's just an unsolicited refund totally out of the blue, I'd contact them about it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:27:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NostalgiaforInfinity: Eform or paper? Eform |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:30:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_Man: Did you have to resubmit the form for some reason, like it was first denied for a simple error so you had to resend and pay another $200? If it's just an unsolicited refund totally out of the blue, I'd contact them about it. Nope, just logged in and found nothing under the disapprove tab. It's wasn't 6 months ago it was approve 10/6/2022 |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:35:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbojosrt4: Nope, just logged in and found nothing under the disapprove tab. It's wasn't 6 months ago it was approve 10/6/2022 |
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USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 11:58:37 AM EDT
[#8]
As long as you've got that stamp...
Government error in your favor: collect $200 |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:01:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BSWilson: As long as you've got that stamp... Government error in your favor: collect $200 
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:04:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BSWilson: As long as you've got that stamp... Government error in your favor: collect $200 Legally, sure. But when has the AFT ever let something like law get in the way. I wouldn’t chance it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:14:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Hmmm
Atf rug pull? Now you have an illegal sbr? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Someone may have requested cancellation/refund for the wrong control number and it just happened to be yours
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:15:23 PM EDT
[#13]
What else was included with the refund check?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 12:16:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mak0: Someone may have requested cancellation/refund for the wrong control number and it just happened to be yours Wow is that even possible it got to the check in mail phase? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 1:16:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alpharomeojoe: What else was included with the refund check? Nothing but a check inside an envelope, the only reason I knew it was for nfa was at the bottom of the check said nfa approved refund |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 1:36:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By turbojosrt4: Anyone else get one?? I got a approved form 1 on a ap5 like a year ago and now got a refund check today? I had a Form 1 cancelled after 1 month before. They did the same thing and sent me a check. I contacted them and they informed me I had to re-submit the Form 1. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 2:48:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Would suspect they accidentally gave you a SBR refund under the pistol brace issue. Not sure of what they can convict you, though being an unconstitutional agency they may prosecute you regardless. Defense would be pretty easy though: You paid the tax. They issued and you possess a valid stamp. I could be wrong, but I don't believe there is a crime of accepting a refund of a Constitutionally invalid tax issued by a Constitutionally invalid agency.
Not legal advice. I'd probably reach out to Nolo if it was me. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 2:55:00 PM EDT
[#18]
The only correct answer here is cash it and buy more ammo.
You still have your approved form1. You never asked them to cancel your approved stamp. You're golden, they screwed up. And given the clusterfuck that is the ATF and the government in general, I dont think they even have a way for you to give them back the $200 if you wanted to. |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 5:32:08 PM EDT
[#19]
You'll want to look into this with ATF.
Yeah, you've got an approved F1/eF1. They don't just hand out refunds; it's likely that your form was cancelled. The last thing you need is getting some cop calling the form in for whatever reason (traffic stop, Fudd phoned you in because you were shooting normally at some range, etc.) and ATF saying that you requested to cancel the form and the NFA weapon in question is contraband. |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 5:37:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prebans: You'll want to look into this with ATF. Yeah, you've got an approved F1/eF1. They don't just hand out refunds; it's likely that your form was cancelled. The last thing you need is getting some cop calling the form in for whatever reason (traffic stop, Fudd phoned you in because you were shooting normally at some range, etc.) and ATF saying that you requested to cancel the form and the NFA weapon in question is contraband. |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 5:46:48 PM EDT
[#21]
As the kids say, that’s very sus.
If it were me I’d probably try to get to the bottom of it just to cover my ass. $200 is not worth 10 years in federal pound me in the ass prison for possession of an unregistered SBR. I mean technically you have the approved Form 1. And as far as I know, even if you (or someone who isn’t you) request to have it removed from the registry, after it’s approved you forfeit the $200. I could be wrong but I was under the impression the only way you get that money back is if it was cancelled before approval. Your situation seems very odd. Even for the FATF. Haven’t there been one or two instances where ATF has “accidentally” approved F1 machine guns then caught on and said nope? In for future updates. |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 5:47:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prebans: The last thing you need is getting some cop calling the form in for whatever reason (traffic stop, Fudd phoned you in because you were shooting normally at some range, etc.) and ATF saying that you requested to cancel the form and the NFA weapon in question is contraband. I don't know what's normally included with an ATF refund because I've never seen one. Did it come in an ATF envelope? I'd expect them to identify which registration they're refunding, but idk. Yeah I'd contact them and see what happened. They start their prosecutions by checking to see if the firearm in question is registered to the possessor in the NFRTR. |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 5:53:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX_Vette: I mean technically you have the approved Form 1. And as far as I know, even if you (or someone who isn't you) request to have it removed from the registry, after it's approved you forfeit the $200. I could be wrong but I was under the impression the only way you get that money back is if it was cancelled before approval. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX_Vette: I mean technically you have the approved Form 1. And as far as I know, even if you (or someone who isn't you) request to have it removed from the registry, after it's approved you forfeit the $200. I could be wrong but I was under the impression the only way you get that money back is if it was cancelled before approval. It just has to not have been made yet. Haven't there been one or two instances where ATF has "accidentally" approved F1 machine guns then caught on and said nope? In for future updates. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2023 6:53:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Update
So I went through some of my eform from1's and I got a approval on 10/19/21 for a sbr cmmg lower that now say submitted on the form without a stamp. Which i still have downloaded copy's that have the stamp from when it got approved |
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Posted: 10/4/2023 8:02:45 PM EDT
[#25]
You're halfway there.
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Posted: 10/5/2023 8:44:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbojosrt4: Update So I went through some of my eform from1's and I got a approval on 10/19/21 for a sbr cmmg lower that now say submitted on the form without a stamp. Which i still have downloaded copy's that have the stamp from when it got approved FATF refunded a stamp that was approved 2 years ago? Top men. Now what OP? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2023 9:48:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: FATF refunded a stamp that was approved 2 years ago? Top men. Now what OP? Technically still have my stamps so business as usual till I get some clarity and more then some random check in the mail I did ask an expert on eform why my 2 year old approved form 1 now says submitted under the approved forms tab |
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Posted: 10/5/2023 10:02:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Cops can't do that. Only ATF can do that. It's protected tax information. I don't know what's normally included with an ATF refund because I've never seen one. Did it come in an ATF envelope? I'd expect them to identify which registration they're refunding, but idk. Yeah I'd contact them and see what happened. They start their prosecutions by checking to see if the firearm in question is registered to the possessor in the NFRTR. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Originally Posted By prebans: The last thing you need is getting some cop calling the form in for whatever reason (traffic stop, Fudd phoned you in because you were shooting normally at some range, etc.) and ATF saying that you requested to cancel the form and the NFA weapon in question is contraband. I don't know what's normally included with an ATF refund because I've never seen one. Did it come in an ATF envelope? I'd expect them to identify which registration they're refunding, but idk. Yeah I'd contact them and see what happened. They start their prosecutions by checking to see if the firearm in question is registered to the possessor in the NFRTR. I appreciate what you're saying but cops definitely can and do call the ATF and ask about your tax stamp status. I know because I'm a cop and my agency took my gun and badge and read me miranda due to me posting pictures having fun with NFA items on facebook. They did not know the law. They did call the ATF and the ATF said there were no stamps in my name (supposedly). I have a trust so there are no stamps in my name...just 26 stamps in the name of my 2 trusts. It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. |
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Posted: 10/5/2023 12:05:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Norinco982lover: I appreciate what you're saying but cops definitely can and do call the ATF and ask about your tax stamp status. I know because I'm a cop and my agency took my gun and badge and read me miranda due to me posting pictures having fun with NFA items on facebook. They did not know the law. They did call the ATF and the ATF said there were no stamps in my name (supposedly). I have a trust so there are no stamps in my name...just 26 stamps in the name of my 2 trusts. It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. Wow, that story is way worse than OP. All but one of my stamps is a trust also. |
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Posted: 10/5/2023 2:48:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: Wow, that story is way worse than OP. All but one of my stamps is a trust also. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Dale: Wow, that story is way worse than OP. All but one of my stamps is a trust also. What a bunch of blue falcons! Originally Posted By Norinco982lover: I appreciate what you're saying but cops definitely can and do call the ATF and ask about your tax stamp status. So unless they know a SA or TFO, they'll have to ask an ATF someone to check M-F during business hours. It is protected tax info but they'll release it in support of an official LE investigation. But I cannot just pull somebody over on a traffic stop Saturday night, and have my dispatch run all their stuff, and find out immediately if any of it is registered in the NFRTR. If something is in NCIC as stolen property, we'll get a hit on that. But that's all I'll know during the stop. I know because I'm a cop and my agency took my gun and badge and read me miranda due to me posting pictures having fun with NFA items on facebook. They did not know the law. They did call the ATF and the ATF said there were no stamps in my name (supposedly). I have a trust so there are no stamps in my name...just 26 stamps in the name of my 2 trusts. It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. That's ridiculous. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 9:08:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Yeah no joke. What a bunch of blue falcons! They can ask ATF, but only ATF can check. There's an operations center that's 24/7, but when you call it you've got to identify with ATF credentials. So unless they know a SA or TFO, they'll have to ask an ATF someone to check M-F during business hours. It is protected tax info but they'll release it in support of an official LE investigation. But I cannot just pull somebody over on a traffic stop Saturday night, and have my dispatch run all their stuff, and find out immediately if any of it is registered in the NFRTR. If something is in NCIC as stolen property, we'll get a hit on that. But that's all I'll know during the stop. I wouldn't forgive them either. That's ridiculous. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Originally Posted By AR_Dale: Wow, that story is way worse than OP. All but one of my stamps is a trust also. What a bunch of blue falcons! Originally Posted By Norinco982lover: I appreciate what you're saying but cops definitely can and do call the ATF and ask about your tax stamp status. So unless they know a SA or TFO, they'll have to ask an ATF someone to check M-F during business hours. It is protected tax info but they'll release it in support of an official LE investigation. But I cannot just pull somebody over on a traffic stop Saturday night, and have my dispatch run all their stuff, and find out immediately if any of it is registered in the NFRTR. If something is in NCIC as stolen property, we'll get a hit on that. But that's all I'll know during the stop. I know because I'm a cop and my agency took my gun and badge and read me miranda due to me posting pictures having fun with NFA items on facebook. They did not know the law. They did call the ATF and the ATF said there were no stamps in my name (supposedly). I have a trust so there are no stamps in my name...just 26 stamps in the name of my 2 trusts. It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. That's ridiculous. Gotcha. That makes sense. I've never called them myself unless you count the bomb squad. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 1:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KitBuilder]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Norinco982lover: Gotcha. That makes sense. I've never called them myself unless you count the bomb squad. Is that the same number you call to get their EOD people? I couldn't find a straight answer regarding checking NFA firearm serials directly, so I called that center years ago and they told me how it works. Most of our patrolmen do not even know what the NFA forms look like. It's really a non-issue; we never encounter anybody with registered NFA stuff committing crimes. There's like zero overlap. I don't see how you could argue you've got any PC (or even RS) just based on some videos of a guy blasting away with MGs on social media, since you'd have no idea who owns them, or where the registrant might be standing when the video was shot, or which jurisdiction it was filmed in. Anyway, that doesn't seem like something an officer who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution should be looking into, absent any relevance to some other serious crime or complaint of damage/injury to property or persons. And when ATF comes back with, "No, they're not registered to that individual," then they still don't know any more than they [didn't] know previously, just like in your example, because if you don't know the serial(s) or who the registrant should be then the results of such a query are basically irrelevant. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 8:40:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Norinco982lover: I appreciate what you're saying but cops definitely can and do call the ATF and ask about your tax stamp status. I know because I'm a cop and my agency took my gun and badge and read me miranda due to me posting pictures having fun with NFA items on facebook. They did not know the law. They did call the ATF and the ATF said there were no stamps in my name (supposedly). I have a trust so there are no stamps in my name...just 26 stamps in the name of my 2 trusts. It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. Holy fucking shit. Your command staff and anyone involved in that wins the dumbass award for sure. I have never seen anyone call into ATF though, but we were not complete retards about class 3 either. Normally someone would ask me if they didn’t know the answer themselves... Don’t know how much ATF is gonna share over the phone with some random clueless LEO just because he is claiming to be LE either. Not like you can verify if on a phone call. Oh- re-reading it- they assumed they were illegal because it was not in your name? And the fucking ATF person wasn’t smart enough to see if you were listed as a Trustee or other type of responsible person? Nor even mentioned it to your agency that many NFA items are not registered to individuals? Guess we need to add ATF to the dumbass list then as well. FFS. Hope someone ended up with a promotion killing letter in their file over that one. My agency threatened to fire a guy who did something similar in raising a stupid question about something I had done (involving agency NFA items). Basically- ever mention your stupid (and wrong) idea again about what happened and we will fire you. That was rather hilarious... |
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Posted: 11/17/2023 9:42:12 AM EDT
[#34]
If they refunded an approved stamp with no reason several lawyers would love to know this. The ATF will testify in federal court that this does not happen.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2023 10:56:46 AM EDT
[#35]
Are there any updates on this OP? I've got an Ap5 as well that I'd like to sbr.
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Posted: 12/20/2023 9:39:29 PM EDT
[#36]
@turbojosrt4
Any updates? |
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Posted: 12/21/2023 6:20:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Hope you didn’t cash the check.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2023 11:04:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Nothing really to update..I used the ask the expert and got a generic answer on how to download a form
All my form are still under the approved section |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2023 11:01:44 AM EDT
[#39]
It is very apparent that the Supremes have declared the 34 NFA null and void and anyone(including heirs) that ever had a tax stamp will be issued refunds. No interest will be calculated or paid as that would be a burden on the national debt and the various programs for illegal border crossers.
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USA
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Posted: 12/25/2023 11:42:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Norinco982lover: It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Norinco982lover: It was dumb. And no, I don't forgive them. I wouldn't either. In fact, I'd sue the known perpetrators and John Does 1-10 for that and add names to the complaint as Discovery progressed. Sometimes your own agency needs to be convinced that violating rights is not something you tolerate. Originally Posted By KitBuilder: I don't see how you could argue you've got any PC (or even RS) just based on some videos of a guy blasting away with MGs on social media, since you'd have no idea who owns them, or where the registrant might be standing when the video was shot, or which jurisdiction it was filmed in. Anyway, that doesn't seem like something an officer who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution should be looking into, absent any relevance to some other serious crime or complaint of damage/injury to property or persons. I'm pretty sure we have court precedent for the fact that possession of a sidearm is not RS for carrying without a license, just like possession of a motorcar is not RS for driving without a license. I'd argue that possession of a taxable object is not RS of failure to pay tax, too. |
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