For the longest time I've thought of side plates as unnecessary weight and bulk. Of course, since GarandThumb's video about combat lessons learned in Ukraine, a lot of people will be looking at side plates as an option again.

Does anyone have any recommendations for good Side plates handy? . If I am using a special threat plate what level should the side plates be? IIIa? Is level IV overkill?

thanks!

Are you prepping for a threat similar to static warfare in Ukraine? Trying to out armor all threats creates a whole host of issues.

More of a thought exercise. I'm old(er) and I can't carry all the shit like I used to 10-15yrs ago. .

Side plates and side armor at a minimum never stopped being a thing - they're just not sexy for the 'gram.

The SOCOM-issued plates are 6x6. The Marines and Army general forces issue 6x8 side plates OR for the corn-fed midwestern kids the extra-small SAPI plates. Pouches aren't terribly common but you can find them. The old Eagle MSAP pouches are sized to fit 6x6 side armor plates.

The biggest issue is integration of soft armor behind the plates. I've seen a few people with plates behind the soft armor and while it stops stuff, it's not the best way to wear soft and hard armor. Plates go outward of soft armor. Most cummerbunds for the lightweight or 'slick' carriers either omit side armor or don't integrate it well. The LBT 6094 cummerbund, the Eagle MMAC cummerbund, and the Eagle AERO cummerbund all integrate side plates in front of the soft armor. The Crye AVS plate integration is less ideal but workable.

That tangent aside, most of those cummerbunds are sized for the SOCOM 6x6 standard so any plates outside of that you'll need to take a look at other pouches for... and remember - soft armor is almost always required unless the plates are stand-along, but I'm a huge fan of wrap-around soft armor on the side (6x9" and 6x12" are the two most common sizes IIRC).

Plates should be a minimum of level III or level IV ICW depending on what you can find. Your soft armor should stop frag and pistol rounds and your plates stop the zippier stuff (hence why I like 6x9" or 6x12" panels on the side at minimum). I never found the weight to be terrible at all.

3+ polymer?

A side plate on average weighs around 2lbs about the same as a liter of water. Most civis would be a lot better off carrying the water.

With the premise that in a military setting you do what you are told, i saw that video while doing chores and the accent of the guys speaking doesnt help me, but were they talking about hard plates or soft kevlar inserts? Soft insert May be enough for shrapnel.
If you Watch some tactical Hyve YT videos (former navy Seals) they talk how they never wore side plates but they put folded soft kevlar groin protectors to get a minimum of protection without hampering movement.

My strictly personal opinion, side plates are not a good tradeoff. Something like soft balcs inserts plus front and back plates May Still be the Better balanced infantry solution.

In my experience side plates were not well liked by those i know that had to wear them.

I came here to say this.

Also if frag is your main concern, Kevlar may be a better and lighter alternative than trying to plate everything.

Easy compromise on weight and bulk is to have just IIIa soft panels in the cumberbund instead if hard plates.  Some guys do that.

Side plates are not old.  They've always been a good thing to wear.  There's definitely a thing about "too much protection" having a negative effect on human performance.  But side plates protect some vital areas.  You could be laying on the operating table at Bethesda, surrounded by the top trauma team in the country; someone shoots you through and through (heart/lungs) and there's not much they can do to save you.

In all seriousness: a set of side plates should be in your plate carrier if you carry a gun for a living.

I'll wear an interceptor again before side plates on a plate carrier.

heart and lungs are more in the Deltoid/Axillary area, more like to be covered by DAPS/MSAP components. a side sapi is more likely to intercept a side shot that would hit intestines, liver or kidneys.  There has been a lot of effort in training Riflemen to alleviate this issue by correcting their shooting posture. Needless to say that the world is a 360 degrees setting and not a training range and a bullet is not a ray of light that goes thru and thru in a straight line.

Wisdom here.

People think that plate carriers are designed to make you into the juggernaut... they are not

I've got 6x8" side plates from Hoplite.  SKD makes good pouches for them, and they run 15% off sales every 15 minutes it seems.

I'd cheap out on some LAPG side plates before not having them.

Plate Carrier: FCPC V2

Cummerbund: AXL Equinox.

Side Plate Bags:  Ferro Concepts Adapt 3AC 6x6.

Side Armor Plates: SHOTStop Duritium GT2, which apparently may not be in business anymore? I looked and couldn't pull up their website and they've taken some heat in the past for their lack of edge to edge coverage, but my primary concern with Side Plates was that I wanted light weight and thinness and that took priority.  The reason I prioritized the light weight and thinness aspect was that I already have a lot of weight on my cummberbund, which although a structured cummberbund I still want to keep the side plates down to a minimum.  Why? Because, I wanted them to be so comfortable that I'd be happy to wear them all the time.  So, I'm not advocating for you to go out and buy SHOTStop side plates (I used Hesco for my front and back), but just sharing what I ended up with after a few years back looking at the available options. At least at the time I purchased those side plates I couldn't find anything rated for Green Tip that wasn't really thick.  The Hesco side plates were just way too damn thick for my liking.  Let's face it bulk on your sides sucks for vehicles and working in tight spaces so I really do my best to keep that down to a minimum.

I go back and forth about whether I want soft armor for my sides, because Ferro does now have a nice soft armor side pocket(s) and inserts.  Arguably in CONUS your primary threats are going to be pistol and shotgun and the soft armor does provide more coverage than the hard side plates albeit at lower protection.  My concern about the soft armor has been that it's basically a super insulating layer and I sweat enough already in summer heat.   When you sweat you raise your heart rate, which means you're working harder cardiovascular wise.  Of course, harder cardio work means a degrading of skills and mental acuity and so you want to minimize that as much as possible.

At any rate, that is my long rambling thoughts on side armor. If you suffered this far after reading all of that congrats and I'm open to any comments or suggestions from those with experience running soft armor and or side armor.  Thanks.

Armor is based on mission:

Assaulters have speed, surprise, mobility, and fight at the time/place of their choice.  As such, they wear minimal armor because others are reacting and defending against the assaulters.  


Defenders have time to prep defense in depth but are largely static, slow, heavy, and must have heavy volumes of fire combined with explosives, IDF, and so on.  Their armor is far more thorough with over the shoulder coverage, wrap around torso protection, groin and neck guards, and so on...with the presumption that frag is the primary threat and they can't move out from under IDF, so they need to be protected from it.  


Everyone wants to dress like an assaulter...and then the artillery shows up and you need defender style armor.  


The various generations of the IOTV are likely a lot more relevant to what is happening in Ukr than the plate carriers those guys run.  

You can get 6x6 UHMWPE side plates for only a pound.

You can get 6x6 ceramic faced side plates for ~1.5 pounds each.

If you want level III+ or level IV 6x8 or 6x6 you are looking at ~2 pounds each.

A 6x11 UHMWPE level 3a soft side armor panel can be under .75 pound per side and covers your whole side from plate to plate.

If you believe you will see mostly pistol threats and frag threats, the soft armor is way lighter and covers the whole side.

If you believe you need rifle protection, the non ceramic face will to stand up to M855 at 15 yards 50% of the time from a 10" barrel. Longer barrels will only stop M855 at longer ranges. All other common rifle threats will be stopped... for only 1 round.

If you get a ceramic face it will stop M855 at any distance from a 20" barrel.

If you believe you need M855A1 or better protection, you are looking at 2 pound each plates for sure.

Only get plates for the likely threats. Understand 6x6 plates only cover the front half of your sides and won't stop rear quartering shots.

Shots near the edge of hard plates can still defeat the plates by letting rounds squeeze by off the edge of the plate. The "fair hit" area that is guaranteed to stop a round can be as small as 4x4 (1" from edge) down to 2x2 (2" from edge) in size... is that really worth it for the weight?

You have a decision to make that only you can answer.

I'm a big fan of Kevlar inserts for cumberbunds.  Minimal weight, bulk, and movement restriction.

These armor threads always degenerate. Be an adult, do due diligence, do pros/cons, and make a decision for *you* and what *you* are doing at the time. Unless you are part of an org that can kick you out - you can wear, or not wear, whatever the hell you want

I'll also listen more to the opinions of people that had to hump the mtns of Astan, or ride in the heat of Iraq - taking rounds... over an autistic, spec-sheet reddit-er who has never left CONUS.

Lots of good perspective in here. I'd echo that side plates, groin plates, etc fall under "potentially critical but dependent on context and expected threats".

The Ukr conflict involves some of heaviest artillery fires this side of WW2. The front is saturated with shells, mortars, and drones. This means frag is omnipresent and is likely creating more of a threat than small arms fire. Side plates are going to feature heavily when you're dealing with that level of violence.

If your environment does not feature that threat profile, side plates *may* be more of a hindrance than help. As noted the goal of a plate carrier is not to avoid all damage to everywhere. At a certain point you have to pick your spots and balance protection vs mobility.

It's been said a lot and I'm likely preaching to the choir since folks here are more switched on than a lot of the tactical community, but if some guy is obese than before he spends money on a ton of armor he better consider spending money on his health first.  Nutrition coach, personal trainer, home gym, whatever it takes to get fit and most importantly get a heart that is acclimated to pumping steady during steady physical output.   In short, cardio needs to be on point.  If a guy is out of shape and spends over $1K on a plate carrier set-up, but he can't run a mile in just normal athletic clothing than that $1K should have gone into a treadmill or something else to help him get his cardio on point first.  

Saw a fat militia guy online that attended some protest in full kit, the dude had belly fat hanging down over his belt and was wearing a plate carrier.  Body armor isn't going to save a fat guy who gets gassed quickly and becomes a darn near stationary target.  Some dudes are going to become a hinderance really fast and then just a liability that's as dangeorus as the enemy.  

Imagine the athletic performance necessary to be the average soldier who on the front line in Ukraine who is 43 years old (probably similar age for the Russians as well) then having to run across a field to reach a trench or running through city streets and up flights of stairs in full kit in the summer heat.  I've been imaging that a lot lately and been using it as fuel to motivate me for my workouts.  Some of those men haven't come off the line in two years!  A lot of the dudes in Adviika hadn't been rotated out in the full two years of war and due to Ukraine's demographics (a lot like our nation's) their ranks are not filled with young guys.    

Took me a solid year to work my way up to a 10K running distance.  Bones and joints don't love sudden relentless impact they're not used to, they need to be worked up to it.  Your heart takes a bit to adapt from a sedentary life to one where you're pushing it, but it will adapt and grow stronger.   If you're older improvement physically can come, but it takes you longer than when you were young and there is a Hell of a lot more nuance to getting and staying in shape when you're older and have pre-existing injuries and things to adapt to.   It's a new age gentlemen, the world isn't getting safer and more civilized it's going more and more third world every damn day and the days of counting on young guys to be there to do all the fighting are long gone.   We've got to be combat effective in our 30's, 40's, and even 50's now and that takes effort, time, and money so make sure you're prioritizing spending those precious resources on physical fitness and not just more body armor.  

End of rant, but those of you in good shape should be preaching a similar message every chance you get to those you love who need to hear it.

What's SF's unofficial motto- humans before hardware? Absolutely, the meat sack to which all the gear in question is being strapped needs to be able support it and the movement associated with this type of activity.

6x6 MSAP plates, Level IV destructive testing, its impressive

This also won't be helping the cause on these guys!  The guy above tests xsapis even.  These are rare now too, not sure there were ever very many.

There's a lot of XSAPI plates.  There's probably not a lot on the civilian market.

I’m no one special but I don’t see side plates being a concern at all for me…in the very rare case I have my armor on it’s to defend my home with retards with glock switches and ARs with no sights. Front/back plates will be fine

Armor is always a risk vs trade off.  

The most relevant data for people in the US is likely LE Patrol shootings as they are unplanned, relatively defensive and reactive…and there is actual data.


I don’t have current numbers, but a few years back, an agency did the numbers on bullets that caused injury and came up with 14% of LEOs were shot in the head (wear a helmet).  18% were shot in the shoulder/armpit with torso penetration (wear shoulder armor).  The bulk of the rest were extremity hits to limbs.  

That data is relative to the fact that domestic LE is already wearing torso armor…so that’s an assumption that wouldn’t apply to plate carriers.  


The calculus is probability vs risk.  Side hits aren’t the most probable…but they are highly lethal.  Wear side armor.

What about those of us that simply want something to throw on for home protection and not combat?

Softarmour

You never know when artillery gets your coordinates and starts to shell.

If you're having to wear armor for home protection, you are possibly in combat.  Hopefully very short term & you win w/o testing your armor setup, but if you've gone to lethal weapons free in HD, that's a 2-way range.

I don't think there is a 100% right answer to that.
In theory every inch of your body may be hit and may be worth of protection, but power armor hasn't still been invented and you can't cover yourself in plates looking like The Thing from Fantastic Four. There are compromises to be made
Make an honest assessment of your needs and the possible scenarios you may encounter vs. your mobility, capabilities and budget and make a choice.

...i hope side plates or side soft inserts in a civilian scenario will be evaluated to protect from direct rifle hits (plates) or some pistol calibers, shotgun pellets, bullet ricochets and grazing shots (soft kevlar) and not for artillery

We've had more than 150 years of peace in the Continental US, that is a historic anomaly.

I have a few side armor pockets that can fit 6x6 or 6x8. In 6x8 config, they get taller (toward the arm pit), not longer. You've seen 6x8 stuff for horizontal wear? Do they have a decent curve?

Very, very true.

What provides U.S. unity at this point?  It's not nationalism anymore, our institutions have negated that to accommodate for the influx of large numbers of immigrants.  It's not Christanity anymore, church attendance has never been lower and is in sever decline.   We're not culturally or ethnically united, we're the most diverse nation in the history of mankind.  The criminal justice system can only do so much to keep individuals in line as our population continues to grow (well over 320 million now in the USA).  The only thing holding this nation together is a relatively good economy and standard of living, but we see how pecarious that position is now.  

We all take for granted the Herculean task of governing over 320 million people across a territory of 3.8 Million Square miles while simultaneously trying to maintain U.S. hegemony over the entire globe, which itself continues to increase in population.  The world has never been more interconnected and that means diseases spread faster and it also means that we become increasingly like a delicate spider web where any one thread pulled could cause the whole web to collapse.   We could do everything right and a conflict that breaks out between Iran and Saudi Arabia or between Indian and Pakistan could send the global community into a rapid collapse due to the ripple effects.

Stay motivated, train hard, and equip yourself.  Be like the duck on the water where on the surface it appears you're just floating along while underneath you are paddling like crazy.  God willing nothing will go down in our life time. There were Romans who probably thought the Empire would collapse at any second during the Crisis of the Third Century and then there were probably Romans who thought everything would be fine right up to the sack of Rome in 476 AD.   Nobody knows the time or the date when things will go wrong, but it's better to be prepared for it than to not be (to the greatest extent a person can ever prepare for such an event).

Certainly, no Expert, but I suggest that the wider the side plate horizontally, the more useful it is to have curved side plates.

This is a bit less so on the (horizontally) smaller side plates, but even then a curved side plate may make for less overall bulk.

I prefer the 6x6 side plates over the 6x8.  Some guys have the build to handle 6x8 pretty comfortably though, so to each their own.

Everyone is built direrently though, but for me I like thin, light weight, and curved side plates. I prefer green tip protection, but I'm a bit less concerned with the things like AP rounds.  

Understood and concur; it's a personal thing.

If not toting side plates, and the ability is present (side plate pockets), then installing appropriately sized soft armor into the existing pockets is an alternative and covers at least a few bases.  That's assuming the added weight is not an issue.

Again, a personal thing.

I've been annoyed @ side plates since 2011.  I like to mount them higher on the cummerbund, and then they tend to be floppier than I like.

Are you considering for in reaction, or anticipation?

One of my concerns, is speed in reaction to a potential threat.

For that reason, I have a PC with plates, and a cummerbund that has Kevlar inserts, but importantly (to me) uses Fastex buckles on the sides. I leave the strong side unbuckled, and can slide the whole thing with the loaded 3-mag shingle over my head in 2-3 seconds (sticking my weak arm through the ‘hole’ with the buckle already fastened).

At that point, I can run and maneuver without snapping the strong side buckle, but if I have the time, it literally takes another 2-3 seconds to snap.

I actually wanted to see just how quickly I could be awakened from a dead sleep, be alerted to a potential threat, grab the Tavor from the AR Gunlocker under the bed, don the PC, and the Gold Ears Predator Pro ear pro.

Told the SO, “randomly on one of the nights this week, when my breathing tells you I’m fast asleep, shake me awake and say DRILL! DRILL! DRILL!”.

Was able to awaken, comprehend, and grab all the gear in under 20 seconds.

Sure, fragmentation from artillery is probably less a concern for us here in the USA.

However, the U.S. is built around the automobile and if SHTF we'll all be doing more driving than they do in Mad Max movies for as long as the fuel holds out.  That driving is going to be in thin skined civilian vehicles and so some added side plates aren't a bad call for an American civilian.  Everyone prefers to bug-in, but history and the multiple, multiple refugee crisises have demonstrated conclusively that there are just times when you've got to bug-out and if you need to roll through a chaotic dangerous landscape in your family's favorite 4x4 than having that side armor is probably a good call.

Herein lies the problem.  If you're uparmored in the family's 4x4, and you're evacuating the family, are the kids uparmored?  Is your wife?  A better use for your side plates may be as chest plates in a makeshift duct tape plate carrier for the 4 yr old.

I don't have children, but I do have armor for my wife although at present only front and rear plates.  

I've got multiple buddies who have plate carriers and plates, but nothing for their wives and kids.

Definitely before anyone armors up like the juggernaut they might want to consider spending some coin on their family members.  

Seldom happens, but when one's SO takes an interest in personal armor for themselves, it's noteworthy.  Perhaps they're "on-board" with preps.

@backbencher my policy on armor as I’ve upgrade is that the extra set goes to the wife; right now I’ve got m210 & millitech rf2 for her. Kids will get the next set of hand me downs.  Right now I’m taking a hard look at getting some ar550 plates to rig up in the car against the car doors.  That way they’d have some protection.  That and I’m I’m working on getting soft panels that they could cover up with.

@KaerMorhenResident I try to put 20% of my shooting weekly budget allowance into family related preps.  Food/armor/ pistol for the wife.  

ETA for spelling

I still want to uparmor a van cab w/ a slide in pod.  

My kids get small interceptors
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By the time they grow into them I'll get them a plate carrier. Until then the coverage is pretty good