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OH, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 4:32:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KnightofTheOldeCode]
Thoughts? .357 SIG, not Magnum, couldn't fit it all in.
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Posted: 7/5/2023 4:46:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Trends going round. What's old is suddenly hot again.
Back a bit - 40 S&W was the HOT & 10mm was comatose. 9mm was seen as obsolete and revolvers couldn't be given away at gun shows.  Now, Revolvers cost and arm & a leg, 10mm is hot again and .40 S&W is considered "uncool"... Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 7/5/2023 5:08:52 PM EDT
[#2]
I thought 10mm was older than 40 S&W.
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Posted: 7/5/2023 5:08:58 PM EDT
[#3]
The firearm buyer has generally been a fickle lot .
Any guy who takes the time to practice and shoot his gun well is going to be a force to contend with. In a law enforcement situation there is quite often a battle to come up with a size/type of firearm/cartridge that most cops can easily carry on a daily basis and still get decent hits with.. Couple this with the fact that a good training program costs a boatload of money that taxpayers don't really want to spend and there are problems. Citizen firearms tend to follow whatever is hot in the law enforcement field . I have been involved with shooting and reading gun magazines since the late 1960s . Stuff blows hot and cold but many times hot again. New materials and optics ,better bullets and powders all enter into the what is . hot/not discussion but for me 1911 in 45acp and revolvers in .357 cover lots of ground. Had a buddy who ran a small gun shop for a while and the guys who worked there were always talking about what type of guns to have on hand to boost sales. The shop jokeingly said "buy ten of whatever gun was on the cover or Guns and Ammo and National rifleman this month" Sort of said in jest but worked out most of the time . |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 5:09:18 PM EDT
[#4]
The 10 goes hot and cold all the time. I don’t understand the 5.7 love but do understand the 357Sig disappearing because the FBI said 9 is fine so they helped all the state police agencies get rid of it.
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Posted: 7/5/2023 5:42:30 PM EDT
[#5]
If you're referring to the .357 magnum, it's still an exceptionally popular and versatile cartridge
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:29:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnceBidenTwiceXi: I thought 10mm was older than 40 S&W. It is. 40 S&W was developed because 10mm was too hot for some shooters. Specifically, the FBI adopted 10mm, and some agents had trouble with the recoil, so S&W came out with the 40 which was basically 10mm lite. |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#7]
AAC making affordable ammo for all these calibers is a us though. I have my eye on a 10mm now that I can get ammo locally.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 9:54:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m6z]
[#8]
I think there was always a big interest in 5.7, but until recently ammo was hard to find and your only option for guns was FNH @ $1k+.
Now you can get a Rock for the price of a Glock. |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 10:11:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z: I think there was always a big interest in 5.7, but until recently ammo was hard to find and your only option for guns was FNH @ $1k+. Now you can get a Rock for the price of a Glock. Bingo. I always wanted a 5.7, but it was tough to justify the cost for a pistol which would likely be a toy and very expensive to shoot. Now I have a Rock, the quality is excellent, and I shoot it damn well. Ammo availability isn’t great, but it’s getting better and I have hope now that it’s getting more popular. .40S&W is going away because people are finally figuring out that it does nothing better than any of its competitors. Less capacity than 9mm, but with worse recoil and more expensive ammo. No one needs that. It’s a cartridge that is dying for valid reasons. |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 10:32:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Modern offerings in 9mm does everything the 40S&W and the 357 SIG were designed to do, which was to be a better 9mm. 9mm is cheaper and has more offerings than the other two, which is why gun makers are moving towards more 9mm.
10mm started strong, dropped in popularity due to multiple other new offerings at the time, but always maintained a solid reputation for 357 magnum-like performance. It has slowly regained lost ground while others have faded away. 5.7’s growth is interesting as someone had to take the gamble of making a competitor to the FN to bring the cost of the platform down, despite the ammo still being expensive. I think there was always interest in the round, so with so many new platforms coming out hopefully the ammo prices will drop as demand increases supply. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 7:03:12 PM EDT
[#11]
I think largely the 10mm is replacing revolvers and the 9mm is rep leaving everything else.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 7:23:39 PM EDT
[#12]
I love my sbr suppressed ps90 and glad 5.7 is becoming popular and cheaper. Wish 45gap would come back and someone would make bigger Glock mags
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Posted: 7/6/2023 7:30:51 PM EDT
[#13]
5.7 being adopted by NATO helped increase its popularity a lot.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 7:32:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weapons_free: I love my sbr suppressed ps90 and glad 5.7 is becoming popular and cheaper. Wish 45gap would come back and someone would make bigger Glock mags  |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2023 11:52:17 PM EDT
[#15]
That's fantastic, make and model?
So where does this all leave .45 ACP with 10mm rising again? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By November5: I just put .45 ACP in my G19 instead. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173129/B65AB842-5915-47E7-83A1-00D5376965A8-1990028.jpg |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 3:25:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I think largely the 10mm is replacing revolvers... I went a little different direction cause I like both. 
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Posted: 7/9/2023 3:46:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Y-T71: I went a little different direction cause I like both. https://i.imgur.com/GWzshAB.jpg Very Classic! I saw a RUGER 10mm revolver the other day! Never knew Ruger had made a 10mm revolver before! |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 3:49:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KnightofTheOldeCode: That's fantastic, make and model? |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:00:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Trends going round. What's old is suddenly hot again. Back a bit - 40 S&W was the HOT & 10mm was comatose. 9mm was seen as obsolete and revolvers couldn't be given away at gun shows. Now, Revolvers cost and arm & a leg, 10mm is hot again and .40 S&W is considered "uncool"... Bigger_Hammer  I remember when Revolvers were used as door stops and S&W automatics were boat anchors. Now, they're all "collector" priced guns. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:01:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Very Classic! I saw a RUGER 10mm revolver the other day! Never knew Ruger had made a 10mm revolver before! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Originally Posted By Y-T71: I went a little different direction cause I like both. https://i.imgur.com/GWzshAB.jpg Very Classic! I saw a RUGER 10mm revolver the other day! Never knew Ruger had made a 10mm revolver before! I think that it's been available for about five years now. There were some reports of failures to fire when using .40 S&W ammunition though |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:17:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I purchased a Gen 3 G20 and G29 (before SF frames were a thing) for dirt cheap back in the day because 10mm was "dead" and no one wanted 'em.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 7/9/2023 4:54:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: It is. 40 S&W was developed because 10mm was too hot for some shooters. Specifically, the FBI adopted 10mm, and some agents had trouble with the recoil, so S&W came out with the 40 which was basically 10mm lite. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By OnceBidenTwiceXi: I thought 10mm was older than 40 S&W. It is. 40 S&W was developed because 10mm was too hot for some shooters. Specifically, the FBI adopted 10mm, and some agents had trouble with the recoil, so S&W came out with the 40 which was basically 10mm lite. The full power 10mm was never issued to agents. The firearms training unit realized the “10mm light” was adequate for agents, particularly with the number of rounds fired during training. The S&W 1076 had some issues. By the time the pistols were ready to reissue, the .40 Glocks were available. No sense using a heavier, lower capacity pistol, with the same performance. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:03:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I loved the 10mm and think it is one of the best handgun cartridges ever, I was into it when it was dead but once my wrists developed tendonitis I sold them all off (might have kept them if I hunted).
Just a great caliber well suited to customizing your load and easy enough to fabricate at home. Excellent for hand loaders and very good ballistics. Glad to see the resurgence. I also really like the 5.7 and very happy to see FINALLY others making guns and ammo for it. I have enjoyed this cartridge since my first FN 57 IOM. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:49:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: Bingo. I always wanted a 5.7, but it was tough to justify the cost for a pistol which would likely be a toy and very expensive to shoot. Now I have a Rock, the quality is excellent, and I shoot it damn well. Ammo availability isn’t great, but it’s getting better and I have hope now that it’s getting more popular. .40S&W is going away because people are finally figuring out that it does nothing better than any of its competitors. Less capacity than 9mm, but with worse recoil and more expensive ammo. No one needs that. It’s a cartridge that is dying for valid reasons. Shut your hoarmouth! 
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USA
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Posted: 7/11/2023 6:44:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnceBidenTwiceXi: I thought 10mm was older than 40 S&W. It is. … 10mm was introduced in 1983, by Norma. .40S&W was introduced in 1990, by Winchester, in order to placate whiny limp-wristed FBI agents who bitched about the 10mm and “that big large gun”(M1076). Then they whined the new .40 round was “too snappy.” More with the bitching about achy-wrists. |
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Posted: 7/11/2023 7:09:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: I buy stuff when it isn't popular for a reason. I remember when Revolvers were used as door stops and S&W automatics were boat anchors. Now, they're all "collector" priced guns. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Trends going round. What's old is suddenly hot again. Back a bit - 40 S&W was the HOT & 10mm was comatose. 9mm was seen as obsolete and revolvers couldn't be given away at gun shows. Now, Revolvers cost and arm & a leg, 10mm is hot again and .40 S&W is considered "uncool"... Bigger_Hammer I remember when Revolvers were used as door stops and S&W automatics were boat anchors. Now, they're all "collector" priced guns. This, remember stacks of 40sw available when everything else was bear. Also when 40sw were being given away. Same with .38 and .357 revolvers were under $200. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2023 3:02:38 AM EDT
[#27]
I still have my .40s pistol for a reason. What the pandemic had highlighted again when going through the Obama ammo panics. Have a plan. The only ammo i could find in quantity where 40, 357sig and 10mm in my area. I already had a 357sig barrel that I can switch out of my 40 pistol as needed and built my 10mm pistol to take advantage of the ammo availability.
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Posted: 7/13/2023 3:37:34 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm waiting patiently for my 45 GAP to be rediscovered
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Posted: 7/13/2023 1:57:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: I'm waiting patiently for my 45 GAP to be rediscovered RE-discovered? Was it ever discovered the first time? |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 2:13:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: I'm waiting patiently for my 45 GAP to be rediscovered I have a few k and two g38s |
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Posted: 7/16/2023 8:36:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnceBidenTwiceXi: I thought 10mm was older than 40 S&W. It is. .40 is dying off because 9mm upped its game & offered a huge leap in bullet tech. People got better performance & got back their 2-3-4rd capacity loss from their .40S&W. 9mm ammo costs less too. 10mm came back because guys think like the ones who liked to swap in a V8 in their Jeeps & smaller cars wanted more HP, so more HP over the 9mm & .45acp. More HP = more fun. I agree. Shoot a steel plate rack with a 10mm, .40. 9mm & .45acp & watch the plate's reaction difference to a solid hit. Be sure to not use watered-down 10mm ammo though. I carry these:  Attached File.357Sig is an intriguing rd. Very close to .357mag ballistics in the 125gr loading but able to be set in a rimless case. Also allows a double stacked mag versus the Desert Eagle single stack or the Coonan. I recently bought a used USP Compact in .40 & immediately dropped in a .357Sig bbl. I carry it in a shoulder holster in my carry rotation. Also have a Sig P-226 in .357Sig. My .o2 |
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Posted: 7/16/2023 8:44:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless: I'm waiting patiently for my 45 GAP to be rediscovered  
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USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 7:17:52 PM EDT
[#33]
I have always wanted a 5.7 hand gun but did not want to spend 1k on a FN. been interested in 5.7 & the ammo for years.
Have some different opinions over the last two or so years really helps. Have zero interest in any other handgun caliber’s other then 9mm & 5.7 |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 11:46:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ebolinux: I have always wanted a 5.7 hand gun but did not want to spend 1k on a FN. been interested in 5.7 & the ammo for years. Have some different opinions over the last two or so years really helps. Have zero interest in any other handgun caliber’s other then 9mm & 5.7 Get a PSA Rock. Mine has been reliable, comfortable, accurate, and fun to shoot. Much cheaper than the FN as well. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 7:53:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Anyone ditch their FiveSeven FN for a Rock?
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Posted: 7/25/2023 7:34:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChickenDaddy: Anyone ditch their FiveSeven FN for a Rock? I have a 3rd Rock on the way. I have had 2 FNH FiveseveNs, and currently have the Ruger 57 and I really like the PSA Rocks the most, the best part of this thread is that I recently bought a G20.5 too. LOL To be fair, I've 5.7 pistols for over 10 years. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 9:08:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Danus_ex]
[#37]
Let's not forget the effect of the magazine capacity ban sunsetting. 10/12 round .40 S&W magazine guns found themselves in no-man's land when an equivalent 9mm held ~50% more cartridges.
I'm still a 7.62x25 hipster though. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2023 8:56:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KnightofTheOldeCode: Thoughts? .357 SIG, not Magnum, couldn't fit it all in. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KnightofTheOldeCode: Thoughts? .357 SIG, not Magnum, couldn't fit it all in. Originally Posted By HomeAtLast: If you're referring to the .357 magnum, it's still an exceptionally popular and versatile cartridge Which is probably why he specifically stated .357 SIG, not Magnum. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/31/2023 5:58:47 PM EDT
[#39]
I think it has a bit to do with 10mm and 5.7 bringing something to the table that the other two cartridges don't.
10mm is the most powerful, and it fills a niche role for wild life protection. 5.7 is flat and accurate with low recoil. .40 and .357 SIG doesn't bring anything to the table that 9mm can. It seems like the consensus is if you want a bigger round with a practical advantage, there is .45ACP or 10mm. |
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Posted: 7/31/2023 6:11:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Who cares Fuck the current trend . . buy all the calibers load all the calibers shoot all the calibers 
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Posted: 8/2/2023 8:02:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Very Classic! I saw a RUGER 10mm revolver the other day! Never knew Ruger had made a 10mm revolver before! I was offered a Ruger 10mm Match Champion last year but passed as I have several .41 Mags. 10mm in a revolver doesn't do anything for me especiallly since I have zero cases, dies or bullet molds for it. I'm just getting into .32 S&W Long and H&R Mag but have cases, 90gr .314 mold and my .32 ACP dies can be used. Use a .223 shell holder too. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2023 8:23:30 PM EDT
[#42]
More sugar in the kool-aid.
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Posted: 8/2/2023 8:52:04 PM EDT
[#43]
It is just marketing by ammo makers, gun makers. All businesses involved in firearms have to do something to stimulate demand, even if that means publicizing stuff that has been around for 10-20 years and trying to make it seem in fashion or necessary.
I point out that the 30-06 has been around for over 100 years and can still kill deer, elk, bear, antelope, moose, and just about anything else on this continent. Are there better, or newer cartridges, sure there are..and there are probably going to be better ones yet. But that doesn't make the 30-06 less lethal than it was 100 years ago. The same applies to many pistol cartridges that are very old, but still work...9mm, 45 amp, 357 mag, 38 special, 45 Colt, 44 special etc, sure 10mm is newer, but I would suggest that a well placed 45 Colt bullet wouldn't give up much killing power to the 10mm on two legged varmints. |
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Posted: 8/3/2023 8:23:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: It is. … 10mm was introduced in 1983, by Norma. .40S&W was introduced in 1990, by Winchester, in order to placate whiny limp-wristed FBI agents who bitched about the 10mm and “that big large gun”(M1076). Then they whined the new .40 round was “too snappy.” More with the bitching about achy-wrists. The snappy part is really a glock thing. It's a joy to shoot in a Sig. It took glock until gen 5 to figure this out. Regardless, cartridge popularity comes and goes, much being driven by marketing as everyone seeks to find that more perfect balance of accuracy and power that the last more perfect thing didn't have. Can someone tell me what 6.5 manbun does that .270 doesn't? |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2023 8:44:51 AM EDT
[#45]
There are some calibers that used to be cheap, common, and plentiful that are getting expensive and hard to find. Every hardware store and rural gas station used to have boxes of .30-30 you could pick up on your way out hunting, but have you tried finding any at your local sporting goods store lately? For a decent price? Or there's .30 Carbine - surplus boxes of it used to clog shelves for next to nothing, but these days, you'll be paying out the nose if you can find any at all. Of course, 5.45 has become an endangered species outside of the ex-Soviet Union. Then there are some calibers that you can still find, but that have gone up astronomically - gun shops used to literally give away cases of surplus 7.62x54r if you bought a $60 Mosin, but those are all long gone, and 54r is about as expensive as any other full-power rifle cartridge these days. Even with .357 Magnum, good luck trying to pay much less than $50 a box for that.
Times change, I suppose. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2023 11:48:26 PM EDT
[#46]
357 sig is a really bad cartridge to reload. Has a shoulder but indexes on the neck. Got to get everything right on the reload for it to work.
Glad it is dying. 40 sw had a reason to exist because of the assault weapon ban now. Worthless. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2023 1:32:26 PM EDT
[#47]
one nice thing about .40s&w was back when most 9mm platforms were also available in .40. Not so with 10mm.
Want a Glock? in .40 you get a medium size frame, in 10mm you only get the large frame. I have a g32 with a .40 conversion barrel and at the same time owned a g40 10mm. The g32 was as easy to handle as the g40 with cheap range load 10mm. I still shoot 10mm but if you want compact carry, you'll only get it with a .40s&w Always been interested in 5.7 and came close to buying an FN57 but the cost and limited availability of ammo stopped me. Still shoot .357sig from my g32, it's not cheap but it's the biggest bang in a compact size. Shame it's waned in popularity but still an effective round in a semi-auto. And popularity doesn't mean that's what everyone is shooting today, only what we might want to shoot tomorrow. We're seeing more choices in 10mm and 5.7 handguns but that doesn't mean on average there isn't more .357 sig & .40 s&w being shot today.... |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:12:22 AM EDT
[#48]
I only need a few rounds from handgun to find my carbine. 357 mag is fine.
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Posted: 10/6/2023 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ronin556: 357 sig is a really bad cartridge to reload. Has a shoulder but indexes on the neck. Got to get everything right on the reload for it to work. Glad it is dying. 40 sw had a reason to exist because of the assault weapon ban now. Worthless. .40 S&W is more bullet weight & surface area (both unexpanded & expanded - especially with todays modern hollow points like HST) But barely any capacity reduction nor requiring a large frame like the .45ACP or 10mm. I'd rather have 15+1 .40 S&W vs. 17+1 9mm. 10mm was comatose for nearly a decade as a specialty niche cartridge, but people who wanted "MAX POWER" in a Semi-Auto sort of rediscovered it. Funny thing is that if people look at the Lucky Gunner Ballistic Lab Tests, 10mm like Hornady 180 XTP bullets end don't produce better end results than .40 S&W HST does. Can't deny that 'the hotness' is OFF of .40S&W these days, especially after the FBI switched back to 9mm and so many departments & agencies Lemming Trained back to the 9 as a result. Nothing Wrong with the 9mm for getting large numbers of recoil shy shooters to pass their qualification, but given the choice, I'd still prefer .40 S&W because all handguns are statistically weak sauce compared to long guns, so I'd like any advantage I can get. Bigger_Hammer |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2023 8:23:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: .40 S&W is more bullet weight & surface area (both unexpanded & expanded - especially with todays modern hollow points like HST) But barely any capacity reduction nor requiring a large frame like the .45ACP or 10mm. I'd rather have 15+1 .40 S&W vs. 17+1 9mm. 10mm was comatose for nearly a decade as a specialty niche cartridge, but people who wanted "MAX POWER" in a Semi-Auto sort of rediscovered it. Funny thing is that if people look at the Lucky Gunner Ballistic Lab Tests, 10mm like Hornady 180 XTP bullets end don't produce better end results than .40 S&W HST does. Can't deny that 'the hotness' is OFF of .40S&W these days, especially after the FBI switched back to 9mm and so many departments & agencies Lemming Trained back to the 9 as a result. Nothing Wrong with the 9mm for getting large numbers of recoil shy shooters to pass their qualification, but given the choice, I'd still prefer .40 S&W because all handguns are statistically weak sauce compared to long guns, so I'd like any advantage I can get. Bigger_Hammer This. Improvements in 9mm loadings (bullet performance) brought it up to equal .40, but those same improved bullet designs came to .40 with its greater weight and surface area. It improved, too. So, the Model 22 Glock remains my carry. I reload, so ammo availability is not an issue. I also have 9mm and reload for it. .357 Mag amd .38 Special, too. I conceal carry a Model 36 steel frame S&W Chief Special revolver because I just love its classic simplicity. With modern bullets in +P loads, its as effective as 9mm in situations where capacity is less important. I just pretty much ignore trends. In long guns, too. .30-06 has always been favored by me over .308, although I have both. Same with .280 Rem over .270 Win or 7mm Rem Mag, even 6mm Rem over .243. .300 Weatherby Mag over .300 Win Mag even though I own and reload for all of these. Heck, there are situations where I might chose my M1 Carbine over am AR15 .223, given the wonderful performing cast bullets I load for it. I shoot and reload for a lot of stuff. Ain't selling any of it. |
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