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They were so fundamentalist that they insisted on separation of church and state??

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So, the whole Reaganite “Big Tent” doctrine, which was pretty successful winning elections and governing the country, is a relic of the bygone age, to be replaced by a theocratic litmus test. Good luck with all that…

I’m a pretty hardcore conservative, but I’m not about to tolerate a Christian Taliban, which is exactly what you’re proposing. The principal conceit of Christianity insists upon belief that God is so weak in convincing people of his omnipotence and all encompassing goodness that his creation can only gain salvation through the interposition of an intermediary Jesus. In the Old Testament that I embrace, that salvation was granted for all time on Mt Sinai and has never wavered (both in my embrace of the knowledge and strength it imparted and the commitment it demanded in return). I respect the adherents of Christianity, and I expect respect in return as your elder brother in faith. Which one of us is ultimately right? I fear that will not be known until the day of judgement. If proven wrong, I will be the first to apologize either in this world or the next. If proven right, I expect the same.

This mutual forbearance and acceptance of these differing but complementary paths of faith to the One True
God were at the very core of the Enlightenment thought that motivated the Founders. Their vision of the Freedom of Religion saw not to embrace a theocratic state imposed religion but to allow for the practice of all faiths in law abiding peace free of the centuries of religious warfare that devastated Europe. It was not a negative prohibitory legal statement but a positive dedication to freedom. A belief in One God, a Hundred Gods or No God coexisting alongside one another was the vision in 1788 and we would do well to remind ourselves and rededicate ourselves to it.

To denigrate my admittedly all too imperfect commitment to Judaism and equate it with disloyalty to this country and its principles is detestable and calls into question your understanding of conservatism and the Constitution.

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James Madison.

Religious revisionism is gross.

ETA, just because he supported it doesn’t mean it was his baby.

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Fascinating to see all the different sides turn on Jews for different reasons. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take some simple theological disagreement and badmouthing from you guys over the Jihadi bullets any day.


But, it is amazing to watch. I wonder who is really behind this sudden division and infighting on the right?

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Are you jewish? I'm not and I'm not really informed enough on Jewish theology to have an opinion on what extraneous-type stuff rabbinic Judaism adds to the religion of Abraham (I mean, to the extent anybody knows the nature of Abraham's religion)

I'm interested to hear your opinion regardless of ethnic or religious background.

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James Madison wrote the fucking thing.

ETA, I hate to blast the religious, even though I am not a believer, but the willingness of some to absolutely ignore reality and pretend that the founding fathers were fundamentalist Christians is just downright embarrassing.

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I wasn’t, I was making a comparison that he appears to exclude every other Christian whose beliefs aren’t 100% the same as his.

Christianity is supposed to be open and welcoming and accepting but some Christians think their interpretation of the Bible is the only 100% correct interpretation and anyone who disagrees isn’t a real Christian.

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Ben is a Jew. He doesn’t believe in Jesus. He does believe in God. And the OT. And he doesn’t like commies. I’ll let him deal with Jesus thing when he dies. But I’ll count him as on our side.

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Appeal to authority.

lol

Another worthless degree

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I wasn’t, I was making a comparison that he appears to exclude every other Christian whose beliefs aren’t 100% the same as his.

Christianity is supposed to be open and welcoming and accepting but some Christians think their interpretation of the Bible is the only 100% correct interpretation and anyone who disagrees isn’t a real Christian.

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But but Islamist are extremists!!!!!!! Whargghhggrgrhgrhhhgrrrrr!!!!!!!

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You are taking a position that the founding fathers were fundamentalist Christians and that James Madison did not write the first amendment.

Seriously, this is what you are saying and trying to insult my knowledge?  Seriously?

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Read all my posts. My position is quite clear, which is why I have been repeating it over and over. I don’t give a shit about your hero. The FF were absolutely not fundamentalist Christians and JM wrote the first amendment.

These are the facts.

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Maybe just worry about your own salvation instead of condemning others.

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Why do you care what OP has to say about klavan?

It almost seems like you're keeping score on OP for doing something you think shouldn't have been done.

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I mean fundamentalist, as in treating the Bible literally. It is modernly recognized as a movement starting in the 1800’s in the US.

While many of the founding fathers were Christian and recognized the Judeo-Christian values as being superior to others, most of them would not fall into that category. I am not going to go through their various beliefs, because they were pretty wide ranging, but I will point to the very first amendment in the Bill of Rights, refusing to allow a government religion.

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You are literally wrong about every single thing.

Christian fundamentalism, also known as fundamental Christianity or fundamentalist Christianity, is a religious movement emphasizing biblical literalism.[1] In its modern form, it began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among British and American Protestants[2] as a reaction to theological liberalism and cultural modernism. Fundamentalists argued that 19th-century modernist theologians had misunderstood or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, which they considered the fundamentals of the Christian faith

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Once again, you didn’t read or comprehend my posts. As I made it clear that I was talking about the modern understanding of the term.

Go live in your fantasy world, I am done with your nonsense.