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Posted: 9/2/2012 2:09:21 PM EDT
[#1]
I've seen and taken some pretty hefty punches to the chevrons in my short time.
As stupid as this was, I don't think the possibility of a seizure crossed 1SG's mind. I wasn't expecting it when I saw the video.
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Posted: 9/2/2012 2:10:57 PM EDT
[#2]
I will never understand this stupidity.
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Posted: 9/2/2012 2:14:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Making the new guy do shitty jobs and playing pranks is hazing. Hitting the man in the heart with a giant mallet is prison style abuse.
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Posted: 9/2/2012 2:15:22 PM EDT
[#4]
I was in 2nd platoon Delta-4-10 in basic aft Ft Leonard Wood in summer 1988, Another platoon in my company had a blanket party. It may not be right but it happens.
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Posted: 9/2/2012 4:42:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Its one thing to punch the newly placed rank, another to hit with a damn 3lbs wooden mallet..........real good leadership 1sgt.....
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Posted: 9/2/2012 4:55:17 PM EDT
[#6]
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I got buttstroked in the chest by 90 guys with M14s. A lot of them harder than that. Whatever. Like a baseball to the chest, bad timing just messed with his heart. The article is not clear. Did he have a seizure or a dysrythmia? He must have. He wasn't hit that hard, but it was right over the heart. And he was fine, right until his heart freaked out. A dysrythmia makes more sense given the context. You can send a person out of and into V-tach/V-fib with a sharp blow to the sternum. I'm guessing that calling a loss of consciousness a "seizure" was just the layman trying to explain what they observed. Heart stopped or V-fibbed the second he was hit. He was operating off residual oxygen to the brain. when that stopped, he collapsed. creepy. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 5:10:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Just say "NO". I saw a report about the USMC hazing after earning their junp wings. Stupid as hell. Just say "No thank you" if that doesn't work "Fuck off" I already earned 'em!
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Posted: 9/2/2012 7:18:42 PM EDT
[#8]
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I got buttstroked in the chest by 90 guys with M14s. A lot of them harder than that. Whatever. Like a baseball to the chest, bad timing just messed with his heart. The article is not clear. Did he have a seizure or a dysrythmia? He must have. He wasn't hit that hard, but it was right over the heart. And he was fine, right until his heart freaked out. A dysrythmia makes more sense given the context. You can send a person out of and into V-tach/V-fib with a sharp blow to the sternum. I'm guessing that calling a loss of consciousness a "seizure" was just the layman trying to explain what they observed. Heart stopped or V-fibbed the second he was hit. He was operating off residual oxygen to the brain. when that stopped, he collapsed. creepy. That's how I saw it too, good eye. The kid is lucky to be alive. You can come back from a seizure pretty well, a dysthymia bad enough to cause syncope, not so much. If he was not young, in shape, and otherwise healthy he might have not made it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 7:44:09 PM EDT
[#9]
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I've seen and taken some pretty hefty punches to the chevrons in my short time. As stupid as this was, I don't think the possibility of a seizure crossed 1SG's mind. I wasn't expecting it when I saw the video. I'm sure it didn't, but that doesn't make it alright. Bad things happen often enough on their own, there's no reason to invite them with bullshit like that. I knew a CW4 CID agent once that said all the time he'd seen Soldiers who were fucking around, punched someone in the head or some other nonsense, and killed them. He said their reaction is usually the same, "Well I never thought it would kill them!". |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 7:58:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/2/2012 8:09:01 PM EDT
[#11]
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I hate that shit. 
Oh yeah, great leadership there 1SG.  Fuckin Top failed his troop. What happened to "...accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of my Soldiers". When I got my E-4 and E-5 I got the pins on my rank pounded, that wasn't a big deal but a damn wooden stake mallet? |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 8:58:30 PM EDT
[#12]
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What a stupid display and that asshole should be locked up. http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/09/ap-army-bragg-father-angry-sons-alleged-hazing-090112/ The incident occurred April 4. In a letter he received in early June, Ken Roach said the Army called the incident “hazing” and that the soldier who responsible received a $1,000 fine and a reprimand citing a simple assault. Ken Roach, an Army veteran himself, said he would like to see formal assault charges brought.
“It was assault with a weapon — he could have killed my son,” he said, adding that his son, who operates unmanned aerial vehicles with the 82nd Airborne, has been unable to perform those duties until he is “cleared by a doctor.” Ken Roach said his son’s fiancée, who also was a soldier but since has been honorably discharged, was at the event, and that she and his son both fear retribution over the incident and don’t want to publicly comment. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, told WWMT that he’s “very concerned about this hazing incident” and has asked the Army to review what happened. Ken Roach, who served in the Army from 1982-90, said he has spoken to the 82nd’s brigadier general and a brigade commander about the incident and subsequent mistreatment of his son. The father said the commander told him he would “speak with the chain of command to try and get my son to feel more comfortable.” ar-jedi |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:23:46 PM EDT
[#13]
for fucks sake, it was a freak accident.
yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:29:25 PM EDT
[#14]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. That doesn't mean he's not still culpable. An injury to the Sergeant is an easily foreseeable result of his actions to the average person. A First Sergeant of all people should be the one putting a stop to such stupid behavior, not partaking in it and leading it. There is no way to excuse such behavior, or to try to downplay it just because the intent wasn't there to have it go wrong. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:32:24 PM EDT
[#15]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. That doesn't mean he's not still culpable. An injury to the Sergeant is an easily foreseeable result of his actions to the average person. A First Sergeant of all people should be the one putting a stop to such stupid behavior, not partaking in it and leading it. There is no way to excuse such behavior, or to try to downplay it just because the intent wasn't there to have it go wrong. I am referring more to daddy having a snit fit. God forbid he see my son's football practice. he'd stroke out. the mechanism of injury is no different than kids killed playing baseball. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:43:04 PM EDT
[#16]
I always liked the part where you have to lick grape jelly out of the COB's navel. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:44:32 PM EDT
[#17]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 9:56:15 PM EDT
[#18]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 10:01:02 PM EDT
[#19]
All it takes is one asshole to have a seizure and ruin the fun for everyone
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Posted: 9/2/2012 10:13:15 PM EDT
[#20]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. dude fucked up in multiple ways. sure Did he intentionally try to put him on the floor? no I think I said on a previous page, that I have no issue with a rough congratulation/celebration, but the mallet was over the top. |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 10:38:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Total lack of judgement from the 1SG. A career ending move too.
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Posted: 9/2/2012 11:15:36 PM EDT
[#22]
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Total lack of judgement from the 1SG. A career ending move too. nope. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1361581_Army_hazing_incident_caught_on_tape.html&page=5#i35458946 ar-jedi |
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Posted: 9/2/2012 11:18:56 PM EDT
[#23]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. I'm thinking you really dont understand how serious this is. You can stop a heart just by punching someone in the chest. Period. |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 12:41:59 AM EDT
[#24]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. Honestly I am shocked that you don't understand the seriousness or the criminal and civil liability here. It is both reasonable and foreseeable that hitting someone in the chest with a mallet could result in serious injury or death. He intentionally hit him in the chest with that mallet, that is all the intent that is required. And I would take issue with the idea that that kid could have taken another 20 hits. Saying this was "freak" is simply not born out by the facts. |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 12:43:50 AM EDT
[#25]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. dude fucked up in multiple ways. sure Did he intentionally try to put him on the floor? no I think I said on a previous page, that I have no issue with a rough congratulation/celebration, but the mallet was over the top. The only intent that is required is to hit him with the mallet - that was done without regard to the foreseeable consequences - far more than negligent it was reckless indifference. |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 1:16:23 AM EDT
[#26]
If a guy ran at a cop with that wooden mallet, and was shot and killed, everyone would be saying "good shoot".
Now obviously I don't expect the kid to pull out his CCW and cap the NCO (  ), but it does give perspective on how it's actually a pretty big deal to hit someone with a hammer, not just a mostly harmless promotion tradition.
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Posted: 9/3/2012 1:40:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. Why, did they add a new element to baseball where some fucking retard intentionally hits you in the chest with a bat/ball? The intent may not have been to cause serious injury, but common sense(like that which you'd expect a 1st Sgt or other leader to have) would tell anyone that hitting someone hard in the chest with an oversized mallet has the potential to seriously injure him. This is why troops have to waste countless hours at safety standdown and repetitive briefings. It's fucking amazing that when I was a Lance Corporal I could recite an entire Operational Risk Management class from memory and we still have SNCOs out there who'll turn a promotion ceremony into a reenactment of a goddamned Roadrunner cartoon. Fucking unreal. |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 6:07:01 AM EDT
[#28]
we always get punched or an elbow. sometimes you might get a kick. never a mallet. but this is common.
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Posted: 9/3/2012 6:13:00 AM EDT
[#29]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. 1SG? Is that you? |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 6:54:20 AM EDT
[#30]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. dude fucked up in multiple ways. sure Did he intentionally try to put him on the floor? no I think I said on a previous page, that I have no issue with a rough congratulation/celebration, but the mallet was over the top. Intentionally? No. Negligently? Absolutely |
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Posted: 9/3/2012 8:41:32 AM EDT
[#31]
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for fucks sake, it was a freak accident. yeah, it was stupid. but the intent wasn't to hurt the kid. It was not an accident - he intentionally hit the Solider square in the chest with a wooden mallet. Nothing accidental abou it. He might as well have run him over with car for the "accidental" qualities about it. with no intent to hurt him seriously. that kid could have taken that hit another 20 times and not had his heart stop. if that was criminal, we should ban baseball. Why, did they add a new element to baseball where some fucking retard intentionally hits you in the chest with a bat/ball? The intent may not have been to cause serious injury, but common sense(like that which you'd expect a 1st Sgt or other leader to have) would tell anyone that hitting someone hard in the chest with an oversized mallet has the potential to seriously injure him. This is why troops have to waste countless hours at safety standdown and repetitive briefings. It's fucking amazing that when I was a Lance Corporal I could recite an entire Operational Risk Management class from memory and we still have SNCOs out there who'll turn a promotion ceremony into a reenactment of a goddamned Roadrunner cartoon. Fucking unreal. In my younger, dumber days I went through probably 4 various ceremonies that I distinctly remember being hit a lot harder than that and multiple times. Are those dozens of people all criminals? Had the soldier not been hurt would the 1SG still been a criminal? Do you think that was the 1st time that 1SG had done that? So is the act criminal or the result? the oversized mallet distributes the force over the chest area and would arguably be safer than a hard punch to the same area. Nearly any blow to the heart can do that depending on the timing. |
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